G7 leaders: ‘Iran can never have a nuclear weapon’
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The world would be a safer place if not only every country had nukes, but also every adult citizen had a farm of combat drones.
I personally don't want to hear of NATO&allies lecturing everyone else morals. Tired of that. And I understand why in ex-USSR the perception of them like some global good guys was common - the reaction to very invasive and obnoxious and irritating Soviet propaganda.
I don't understand how people in the west can believe that.
Anyway, no intelligent person from the west I've talked to did, so ... kinda as it should be.
Imagine giving every potential madman (including school shooters and what not) destructive weapons thinking you're making world a better place. Unhinged take honestly.
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Who decides which country is "crazy"?!
The nations that decide that bombing anyone in the Middle East is lawful when they are doing it.
Also the nations that decide that Kosovo has to be independent, but this is not a precedent for anyone else.
Arabs and Turks ethnically cleansing Arabs, Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis, Armenians is fine. But a few Slavic peoples murdering each other because of religion warrant an exceptional intervention. But Mustafa Kemal is a good guy.
Russians are to blame for their government's actions and have to be banned from payment systems and visiting EU countries. But Russians who work in the government and their family members can live in EU countries half the time and more. That's justified by "killing Russia's economy for the war", except Russia's war is not funded by taxes from citizens paying and accepting payments for shit with MC and Visa. Russia's war is funded by oil and gas trade. Or by "punishing Russians and making them change the regime", which is very funny, because the people actually part of the regime are not "punished" this way, they are also the exact group that should be "punished" for good effect, and we the rest kinda see that and don't have huge sympathies to the narratives of people doing such stuff.
Also about Russia - those nations would decide that Putin's and Yeltsin's regimes are nice and legitimate and democratic when they were limited to destroying Russia itself. Again, now every Russian is retroactively to blame for those years as well, except those they were dealing with.
And it's the same everywhere, if there's an authoritarian regime - then just like with businesses, it's sort of a profitable endeavor. And the process making it profitable happens in the western countries. It's one system in which their elites have that cozy spot of hypocritically accusing everyone other than themselves of the processes they create. A continuation of the colonial system, too continuous and similar to even use the "neo" prefix.
That they are mostly democracies is not real republicanism, at least not in the last 20 years. It's a sign of luxury - look, we can afford such magnificent Colosseum shows that our populace is well controlled even under pretense of democracy. The countries higher in that hierarchy play democracy more, the countries lower in it - less.
Say, Iran's regime is unfortunate, but calling it less democratic than UK would be preposterous. It has more crime and corruption, true. But maybe the fact that Iran's appearance of democracy is above what it's "allowed" is not a smaller reason for the violence against it, than any fears of it attaining a nuke.
... I'd rather listen to what DPRK, IRI, PRC, even Turkey's leadership have to say on what's civilized and what's not. Everyone is better than NATO&EU. Russia's ... eh, I've met some people too close to that, they stink too much, quite westernized one can say.
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Imagine giving every potential madman (including school shooters and what not) destructive weapons thinking you're making world a better place. Unhinged take honestly.
School shooters usually use it as their last resort. Bullying of autistic kids is the main problem. Them finding such an exit is a secondary one.
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What makes you assume said countries would not act exactly like Russia towards others without nukes?
Act like the USA?
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Again, you're doing something called US defaultism. The west is not in agreement about Palestine for example. Western Europe is quite obviously against everything that's currently happening. Neither did other parts of the west planned to control Iran's oil. I'll have to remind you that the initial topic/argument was why Iran/West are on bad terms, not Iran and US.
For me, a European, my hate towards them comes from their continious support towards Russia who's invading checks notes Europe.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Again, the UK (MI6 on behalf of British Petroleum) were one of the key players in carrying out the coup against Mosaddegh and despite the whole Brexit thing the UK is still very much part of Europe.
Western Europe is quite obviously against everything that's currently happening.
Also this^ is obviously nonsensical when we're commenting under a post about how the major European powers are 100% backing Israel and condemning Iran in an escalation that was started by Israel - which part of this looks to you like Europe is against what's happening?
As for the alliance between Iran and Russia - yeah it sucks - I'd much rather them be aligned with us but I can't blame them when they've been historically exploited by the west so they turn to the enemy of my enemy as their friend.
Maybe if western proxy states (Israel) were to stop bombing them under the pretext of Iran being months away from nuclear weapons for the past 30 years it would be possible to have more civil relations and be less aligned with Russia.
Now you may think it's too late for that - which I understand - but then you must also recognize that at that point you're calling for the military annihilation of either side - which is an easy position to hold when you're on the side with all the nukes...
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Act like the USA?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]US is expanding? When was the last time US annexed a territory? Did you honestly just try to make US as a better example than Russia in this context?
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This is Western imperial propaganda to obfuscate the fundamentally anti colonial nature of Hamas and Hezbollah by labelling them as Islamic terrorists.
The real islamic extremists like Al Qaeda and ISIS were in fact sponsored by the CIA.
I'm so sick of Americans with no clue about the region coming up with Hasbara inserted talking points about Iran. As someone who.lived through the lies on Iraq's WMDs , which was also cheered by Netanyahu, it is depressing deja vu.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I had a similar response and then saw your comment later after I wrote mine. Just wanted to say I agree and maybe have a shared "annoyance" with the commenter that you have (not really them individually but more what narrative they are repeating from MSM).
I focused more on trying to agree with the aesthetics of liberals like this while also pointing to why what they do is unhelpful. I don't know if it connects. I try to push them in the right direction.
From your comment Id assume you're not American. So, I just wanted to give you some hope. There are a small minority of us that have learned from the past. A small minority that understand historical materialism and how to apply it to what we see today.
And, even more so, there are a lot of the population saying "no" out of instinct. Seeing the repeated history of the US and it's lies and just going with a gut feeling of distrust. I know it's not not much. But it is something.
Idk where I was going with this response. But I understand your frustration when someone tries to use civil rights suppression to justify literally bombing that didnt threaten us in anyway.
We just get verbatim talking points from 2003; that I heard at 12 years old and was skeptical of even then. My best friends joined the military soon after and I did not. Out of "instinct" and nothing more. So, I'd say that "instinct" during this new generation is even stronger. It's something. Something I hope is strong enough for a better world in the future. Maybe in the shade of the trees that we plant but never get to enjoy.
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Again, the UK (MI6 on behalf of British Petroleum) were one of the key players in carrying out the coup against Mosaddegh and despite the whole Brexit thing the UK is still very much part of Europe.
Western Europe is quite obviously against everything that's currently happening.
Also this^ is obviously nonsensical when we're commenting under a post about how the major European powers are 100% backing Israel and condemning Iran in an escalation that was started by Israel - which part of this looks to you like Europe is against what's happening?
As for the alliance between Iran and Russia - yeah it sucks - I'd much rather them be aligned with us but I can't blame them when they've been historically exploited by the west so they turn to the enemy of my enemy as their friend.
Maybe if western proxy states (Israel) were to stop bombing them under the pretext of Iran being months away from nuclear weapons for the past 30 years it would be possible to have more civil relations and be less aligned with Russia.
Now you may think it's too late for that - which I understand - but then you must also recognize that at that point you're calling for the military annihilation of either side - which is an easy position to hold when you're on the side with all the nukes...
wrote on last edited by [email protected]which part of this looks to you like Europe is against what's happening?
You misunderstood. I said Europe does not agree with what is happening in Palestine, not Iran. Different scenarios. There is no genocide in Iran. Everyone's in agreement about the fact that Iran should not have nukes. Not everyone is in agreement whether there should be war about it. Currently it's hardly a war.
but then you must also recognize that at that point you're calling for the military annihilation of either side - which is an easy position to hold when you're on the side with all the nukes...
Blowing up nuclear sites and some scientists in no way equals to annihilation of a state my dude. Stop overreaching.
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What evidence do you have that presents hezbollah and hamas as being anti-imperialist?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]They don't have to have read Lenin mate. They are doing what any resistance force would do when faced with generations of settler colonialism, apartheid, and genocide.
The material actions of a group and how they resist imperialism are what we define them by.
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Are you claiming that the world would be a safer place with every other unstable or authoritarian country having nukes?
He didn't say the world would be safer. But history kind of shows it is in each countries self interest to have nukes vs not having them.
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US is expanding? When was the last time US annexed a territory? Did you honestly just try to make US as a better example than Russia in this context?
There’s Afghanistan, Iraq, and these days there’s talk about a 51st state, rumblings about Greenland, Palestine
American aggression and coups in various countries… there’s so many examples going back to Vietnam and maybe before.
Basically after the British cocked up so many countries in the world, it passed the baton to America.
Iran is one example of a country whose problems are directly caused by American interventionism.
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There’s Afghanistan, Iraq, and these days there’s talk about a 51st state, rumblings about Greenland, Palestine
American aggression and coups in various countries… there’s so many examples going back to Vietnam and maybe before.
Basically after the British cocked up so many countries in the world, it passed the baton to America.
Iran is one example of a country whose problems are directly caused by American interventionism.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]You wrote all that and failed to give me one example of annexation by US. Israel is annexing Palestine. Russia is annexing Ukraine. US didn't annex Afghanistan or other countries. The states/countries live on, sometimes better than before. There is a huge difference.
I honestly believe trump is BS'ing about annexing Canada.
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which part of this looks to you like Europe is against what's happening?
You misunderstood. I said Europe does not agree with what is happening in Palestine, not Iran. Different scenarios. There is no genocide in Iran. Everyone's in agreement about the fact that Iran should not have nukes. Not everyone is in agreement whether there should be war about it. Currently it's hardly a war.
but then you must also recognize that at that point you're calling for the military annihilation of either side - which is an easy position to hold when you're on the side with all the nukes...
Blowing up nuclear sites and some scientists in no way equals to annihilation of a state my dude. Stop overreaching.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Fair, the whole point of attacking Iran was because of Europe having a diverging stance on Palestine than Israel so we agree on that - but now that Israel has bombed Iran - all of Europe is rallying behind them and the genocide in Gaza has fallen to the wayside.
Obviously I'm not saying that killing civilians (both scientists and casualties caught in the cross-fire on either side) is equivalent to the annihilation of a state. I'm saying that by manufacturing consent for the "war on terror" the G7 is exposing itself as the unfair political partner it has always been which only fuels more resentment on the side of BRICS, which will only further escalate the conflict until another full out war erupts (like what's happening in Ukraine)
So I'm arguing that we should discourage unprovoked attacks by allies of the G7 on the grounds that those are unproductive to peacekeeping.
And if you're claiming that "Everyone's in agreement about the fact that Iran should not have nukes." but "Blowing up nuclear sites and some scientists" is "hardly a war" - then you're either saying BRICS can do the same and should expect no repercussions or you're saying that they should expect repercussions and therefore attacks and escalations against the G7 are justified as well.
I feel we may not be understanding each other so I'll present my argument and you present yours?
My point is: The G7's hypocritical application of international law and use of violence and coercion to maintain dominance is exactly what drives countries to join BRICS as an alternative, making Western actions counterproductive to their own stated goals of democracy, peace and stability - which results in further conflict and loss of life across the globe.
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You wrote all that and failed to give me one example of annexation by US. Israel is annexing Palestine. Russia is annexing Ukraine. US didn't annex Afghanistan or other countries. The states/countries live on, sometimes better than before. There is a huge difference.
I honestly believe trump is BS'ing about annexing Canada.
Oh no, I didn’t. I gave you examples of the USA doing much worse things. I also replied to your comment about Russias behavior to other countries, of which only 1 they had attacked. How many did America attack?
In any case the USA would have stayed much longer if in their occupation of the Middle East if public pressure, suicide rate of their forces etc.
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Iran is still more liberal than any western country that supports Israel.
Just because I want to see you dig your own hole deeper: unpack that one for me, champ. How so?
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Please don't make Iran out to be some sort of victim in all this. What Israel is doing is wrong, but Iran has funded a lot of terrorists throughout the years, and execute people in medival ways for holding hands with the "wrong" person.
The iranian government is pure fucking evil and deserves to die horrible deaths for what they instigate and fund around the world and in their local area.
I can think of another country, or two, that are guilty of denying women reproductive health care, persecuting non-hetero lifestyles and demanding total allegiance to their leader.
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Yes. You asked who is comitting genocide in an attempt to shut me up, because you thought the side that commits genocide must inherently be the bad person in any situation. Seen in the context that I said not to frame Iran as a victim, this attempt to contradict me must mean you think Iran IS the victim here. They aren't. Now pack up your bullshit attempt to backtrack, and try to argue like an adult.
Oh wow, I didn't even realize that I said all of that in my short comment
.I said nothing about Iran being a "victim," so please take your strawman elsewhere.
Israel is actively committing genocide, Iran is not. It's that fucking simple.
They're both bad, but one is clearly worse here.
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You must understand this is the zeitgeist. The entirety of the Middle East are victims, including mullahs, Taliban, autocrats and sheikhs. Crazy how people can't at least view it from two sides or in grey tones.
I won't disagree that the Western-led world order has created instability in the region and worldview, but I sincerely doubt that an Islamic world order would be in any way better. Most are just jealous that they don't get to do the exploitation
wrote on last edited by [email protected]You guys just can't not strawman... Nobody here fucking said that (in this specific thread at least, can't speak to others).
Side note: As an American citizen, Iran has done nothing to harm me in any way, and has never been a legitimate threat to my safety for the entire time I've been alive. Aside from being told my entire life to hate them, I've seen no reason to.
On the other hand, Israel is literally committing a second Holocaust.
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Religious zealots can't be allowed to have nukes. You have to at least masquerade as a well-adjusted nation while you develop the nukes and slowly massage your zealots into positions of power over a few decades. Those are the rules.
And yet Israel not only has nukes, but refuses to say how many, or allow IAEA inspectors in to have a look.
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You guys just can't not strawman... Nobody here fucking said that (in this specific thread at least, can't speak to others).
Side note: As an American citizen, Iran has done nothing to harm me in any way, and has never been a legitimate threat to my safety for the entire time I've been alive. Aside from being told my entire life to hate them, I've seen no reason to.
On the other hand, Israel is literally committing a second Holocaust.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]My parents are refugees from Iran. They've done us plenty. And now I see Westerners talking like Iran is the saviour of the Middle East and that the regime is a poor victim of Western imperialism. Israel is a terror state but so is Iran. No innocent people should ever be bombed, and every civilian is a victim of greedy old men getting young men murdered for resources or pride - but it does piss me off to continuously see people who don't understand the region whatsoever form strong opinions on it based on Tiktok and Gaza.
