Is the Fediverse stalling?
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And here lies my point. A vast majority of people don't think its hate speech. And a vast majority of people believe free speech supersedes hate speech.
Please define hate speech.
I've seen many people defending violence against Jews in the name of Palestine right here on lemmy so I'd say hating Jews is pretty mainstream in the fediverse right now.
I believe the right to free speech grants you the right to express hatred as long as ur not calling for violence u should have the right to say whatever the fuck you want.
That's a pretty mainstream belief for a lot a people who have been completely ostracised and discriminated against by the fediverse as a whole.
And here lies my point. A vast majority of people don't think its hate speech. And a vast majority of people believe free speech supersedes hate speech.
Actually, a vast majority of people don't support being a shitbag to other people. You're confusing popular sentiment with the whims of the conservative elite. If you don't just hide in right wing echo chambers all the time you might be surprised to find out how unpopular your terrible views are.
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A lot of right-wing beliefs have become so extreme that I am frankly happy to not be around them, regardless of how important I feel it is to avoid echo chambers (very). Its one thing to want to be able to have conversations with people you disagree with even though it's challenging, it's another thing to constantly have to contend with people who would like to debate whether you're a human and deserve basic human dignity because you're a minority.
But I would appreciate if we could at least manage not to attack other left wing folks over not being left wing enough, or over what methods are a productive way to solve the problems we're facing.
It's kind of just a microcosm of the infighting and purity testing of the left more broadly (at least in America, I have no idea how things are with the culture of leftwing communities or voices in Europe or the rest of the world), but it still sucks and I'd like to hope we can find a way to do better.
Tbh I'm not even sure what the right and left wing means or believes anymore.
Both terms have been so utterly corrupted and coopted that they have become meaningless to the point of simply being a term used to other one group by the other.
Well that's the problem everyone thinks they are exactly the minimum amount of left and that anyone right of them is a facist. If someone is continuously called a fascist Nazi eventually they will listen.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" - Joseph Goebbels
Australia wasn't so much on the extreme of Americans but we are getting there. Interestingly both the right wing and the extreme left got fucked in our most recent election. Mind u I'm not happy with the current federal government they are introducing a pre capital gains tax on everyone's savings.
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I'm genuinely interested in people thoughts about the Fediverse because here in the UK it has massively stalled in 2025, like a lot of things. I am seeing way less posts from UK people and way less interaction and general use in fact. Most seem to have stopped social media use to be fair, and I know a lot of that is to do with my age (old fart here, 56 laps round sun and counting) but the numbers game look poor from my point of view. Do we think the Fediverse has a future now after useage appears to be going downwards? Is it a UK thing? (well I know the UK is weird but hey)
Just from a quick look at https://fediverse.observer/, it looks like the Fediverse is mostly steady at 1-1.25 million monthly users (give or take) over the past two years with a slight decreasing trend. I think there are some reasons for this that are not entirely in our control.
There seems to be a global sentiment of disconnecting from social media and the internet in general. So, I wouldn't be surprised if ever platform is seeing a decaying user base. Anecdotally, among the people I see in real life, there is a general sense of exhaustion with online spaces. Whether it's from corporate-own, enshittified platforms to even places on the Fediverse, the people with whom I interact tend to find the entire thing hollow. They've trimmed down to one or two platforms (if that). In fact, I've even started to get that way. In the past, if someone were wrong and arguing against a point I made, I'd engage, especially if it's in something that I have expertise. Now, why bother? There's no use arguing; people have little interest in admitting fault or engaging in good faith (again anecdotally). That said, I'll concede that the Fediverse is a bit better on that front, but not by much.
Then there's the alternative nature of the Fediverse. It's been rehashed over and over about how "difficult" it is to get on and use. It's not actually that hard, but the barrier to entry is an extra step. That small extra step frightens people away from even joining. The only time that barrier gets broken is when a "legacy" social media platform does something anti-user. Then there is a refugee wave that comes in and goes out leading to a modest durable increase in users. Recently, there just hasn't been a major controversy on a major platform that leads people here.
Now, my final thought on this is to ask: Is a small and steady-ish population (despite modest decay) actually bad? In my view, I don't think it is. Being smaller and with a smallish barrier to entry means that we exclude a sizable number of the low-effort population. So, there's less (no zero) slop here. Plus, discussions, when had in good faith, can be much deeper and less filled with stupid low-effort jokes. Overall, I'm not too concerned with the number of people on the Fediverse. Growth isn't necessarily the best thing. Even so, with the way most mainstream platforms are going, it's inevitable that they will do something stupid that drives more people to the Fediverse at least for a time.
TL;DR: The monthly population is mostly steady with a modest decay. Most social media is likely seeing similar trends. I don't think the smaller userbase is that bad of a thing.
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Every single person that Iβve ever told about Lemmy has not only refused to join, but outright chided me for having recommended it to them. Every. Single. One.
Have you tried to suggest then Piefed since then, especially now with Voyager starting to support it?
No - see the other response to my comment. The internet is not a welcoming place, period, and I've ceased recommending this corner of it to people. If they bother to read things then they will find what they seek. Nazi bar and all.
Though you are right, PieFed is just now turning the corner where I feel that I could ethically do so (I still see so many bugs: especially notifications that lead to nowhere, e.g. if the post gets deleted but the notification remains, and the continued lack of a Preview ability, but at the rate things are going those could both be resolved by next month! Or possibly already are in the Voyager app support?).
Thank you for your own continual efforts advocating on behalf of the Fediverse: we need you, and I for one am so glad that you tirelessly devote so much time and love towards that goal!:-)
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Up the top it has software filter, if you select lemmy:
At this rate by 2035 the lemmy userbase will be depleted
Assuming a constant rate of change of anything involving people over a period of ten years is straight up nonsense.
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Assuming a constant rate of change of anything involving people over a period of ten years is straight up nonsense.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I disagree it's fun, at this rate by 2035 we'll need to pay users to use lemmy
Extrapolating is also a hobby of mine
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No - see the other response to my comment. The internet is not a welcoming place, period, and I've ceased recommending this corner of it to people. If they bother to read things then they will find what they seek. Nazi bar and all.
Though you are right, PieFed is just now turning the corner where I feel that I could ethically do so (I still see so many bugs: especially notifications that lead to nowhere, e.g. if the post gets deleted but the notification remains, and the continued lack of a Preview ability, but at the rate things are going those could both be resolved by next month! Or possibly already are in the Voyager app support?).
Thank you for your own continual efforts advocating on behalf of the Fediverse: we need you, and I for one am so glad that you tirelessly devote so much time and love towards that goal!:-)
Though you are right, PieFed is just now turning the corner where I feel that I could ethically do so (I still see so many bugs: especially notifications that lead to nowhere, e.g. if the post gets deleted but the notification remains, and the continued lack of a Preview ability, but at the rate things are going those could both be resolved by next month! Or possibly already are in the Voyager app support?).
Are those bugs still around even with the new notification update a few days ago? If yes, could you please report them on https://codeberg.org/rimu/pyfedi/issues ?
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βWhat the fuck is this paragraph of ranting nonsense?β
βOh, itβs an ad for piefed β
I would argue that it is more an anti-ad against Lemmy.
(Although I still have a Lemmy account myself, so it's more like against pinning all of our hopes for the Threadiverse onto one tankie-developed platform, made by people kicked off of Reddit for being too toxic and so deciding to create their own Reddit 2.0 - which btw super kudos to them bc that was not easy! Yet also I don't feel like pinning all of my hopes on it either. To each their own I suppose - I just dare to be different myself, wherever that may lead me.)
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Because it would solve the whole issue of people deciding what instance to sign up to. It would make the fediverse better than the mainstream "the one account to rule them all".
But then who is your admin team? People don't want to deal with spam and trolls.
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And here lies my point. A vast majority of people don't think its hate speech. And a vast majority of people believe free speech supersedes hate speech.
Actually, a vast majority of people don't support being a shitbag to other people. You're confusing popular sentiment with the whims of the conservative elite. If you don't just hide in right wing echo chambers all the time you might be surprised to find out how unpopular your terrible views are.
I frequent many forums both digital and physical under a multitude of identities and the only ones who despise free speech are the extreme left. Pretty much everyone likes it. Lemmy is the most echo chambery of all the places I visit.
If your views are so popular how did trump win the election? Why have almost all right wing parties across Europe gotten a larger percentage of the vote? Why did almost every state in the us shift more right in the last election? These are the facts. You are objectively wrong
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But then who is your admin team? People don't want to deal with spam and trolls.
Instances still exist its just that u can log into literally any of them with 1 account. I get instance banned from an instance ur still banned from that instance.
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Though you are right, PieFed is just now turning the corner where I feel that I could ethically do so (I still see so many bugs: especially notifications that lead to nowhere, e.g. if the post gets deleted but the notification remains, and the continued lack of a Preview ability, but at the rate things are going those could both be resolved by next month! Or possibly already are in the Voyager app support?).
Are those bugs still around even with the new notification update a few days ago? If yes, could you please report them on https://codeberg.org/rimu/pyfedi/issues ?
Since a week ago yes definitely, since yesterday I am not certain. Here is one notification that seems to go nowhere: https://piefed.social/post/995600, where the notification, received yesterday, said "Jean-Luc Plushcard New Post in [email protected]", yet I see that post neither in the modlog for the community (https://lemmy.world/modlog/526169) nor in the list of actual posts in it, on the original server (https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward). Even if the post changed its title, then (1) it can't be in the modlog bc the last rejection there is 7 days ago iirc, and (2) that should not change the URL link to it if it wasn't rejected. Perhaps then it was removed by the original poster? Also PieFed had that Cloudflare issue, I think it was yesterday? But I don't know if that is related.
Do you think this situation is a good one to report on?
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Since a week ago yes definitely, since yesterday I am not certain. Here is one notification that seems to go nowhere: https://piefed.social/post/995600, where the notification, received yesterday, said "Jean-Luc Plushcard New Post in [email protected]", yet I see that post neither in the modlog for the community (https://lemmy.world/modlog/526169) nor in the list of actual posts in it, on the original server (https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward). Even if the post changed its title, then (1) it can't be in the modlog bc the last rejection there is 7 days ago iirc, and (2) that should not change the URL link to it if it wasn't rejected. Perhaps then it was removed by the original poster? Also PieFed had that Cloudflare issue, I think it was yesterday? But I don't know if that is related.
Do you think this situation is a good one to report on?
I would say so, worst case scenario it's a false positive, best case you identified a bug!
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I frequent many forums both digital and physical under a multitude of identities and the only ones who despise free speech are the extreme left. Pretty much everyone likes it. Lemmy is the most echo chambery of all the places I visit.
If your views are so popular how did trump win the election? Why have almost all right wing parties across Europe gotten a larger percentage of the vote? Why did almost every state in the us shift more right in the last election? These are the facts. You are objectively wrong
Those are not facts. You are wrong. Nice try though.
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Instances still exist its just that u can log into literally any of them with 1 account. I get instance banned from an instance ur still banned from that instance.
wrote last edited by [email protected]So people still have to choose an instance to login to? This is just to save you from creating an account which is like 25 keystrokes and 4 clicks?
I also don't really want to make things easier for people who get banned often, sounds like it would be easier for trolls to bounce between hundreds of instances with fewer accounts.
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Those are not facts. You are wrong. Nice try though.
Prove me wrong.
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Every single person that I've ever told about Lemmy has not only refused to join, but outright chided me for having recommended it to them. Every. Single. One.
It does not help - and I did not know myself at first - that a Google search of "Lemmy" points people to lemmy.ml, which btw to someone without an account does not show "Fediverse" content and instead rather shows exclusively Local (rather than Global). The amount of bOtH sIdEs SaMe political content is always rather extreme, especially there.
Aside from platforming political extremism, and using Arch Linux (and beans π« π«), there just isn't much else to this place. For us here, it is enough... unless we need to actually know about stuff and for that we go back to Reddit or whatever - especially niche topics that are discussed nowhere else -> if you want the content then you have to go to where it is at. The content creators refuse to come here and I don't blame them: we aren't a very welcoming bunch.
Let's see, so we covered how we are a Nazi bar, how content creators can't be arsed to bother posting here, oh yeah and there's also the fact that Lemmy is somehow more authoritian than Reddit was. There is a modlog but no modmail, no notification when your content is removed, no ability to appeal or discuss (especially when the modlog merely says that the removal was done by a "mod" - it used to say the name of the mod but then it was changed to merely say "mod", so note how Lemmy is becoming more rather than less totalitarian as time passes) or again even so much as be told that your stuff is now gone - and unlike Reddit, taking all of the conversations that happened on a post along with it (when Reddit removed a post it merely took away the link from the community, but someone with the URL could still continue to interact with it for a long time, whereas Lemmy does not even acknowledge that a post once used to exist, instead mentioning a server error and - get this - that you should try again later to access it...
π₯΄ despite knowing full well that the post will never be un-removed; I am not suggesting that this misleading message is intentionally inaccurate, just stating once more how undemocratic this is that a mod can basically wipe out most traces that a post ever existed even in the past).But is there a thought that making an alternative Reddit would be super easy and fun and require zero effort? Lemmy is still extremely far behind Reddit in terms of features and will take many more years to catch up, if ever, and it's hyper-authoritian nature will always remain baked directly in (plus the Nazi bar effect... it's literally right there in the very name!). Though you might check out PieFed - in terms of features it has already surpassed Reddit in many ways, though it is still early in development (e.g. most days there is no Preview ability for posts or comments - although some days there is so I suspect it is almost ready to remain rolled out as a permanent feature?), and it has some fascinating ideas about democratization of moderation. PieFed is written in Python rather than Rust and so features come out in days to months rather than years. PieFed still shows posts from Lemmy.ml, but unlike lemmy.ml itself, does not do so exclusively, so offers a far more global and democratic platform. I'm placing my hopes in PieFed rather than the dying Lemmy moving forward. I usually get downvoted for saying all this... yet here we are on a post saying how MAUs for Lemmy are decreasing and calling into question whether Lemmy will even survive or not - while btw those numbers for PieFed recently tripled in size - so history has and will continue to prove this point accurate. There is hope for the Fediverse, not specifically for Lemmy I think (there is just too much wrong there and the efforts continue to move in the opposite direction, more towards rather than away from authoritarian control, which trends towards fewer rather than more content, i.e. it intentionally creates "echo chambers"), but for the wider Fediverse, yes. It will take actual effort to build it up though. Each step moves towards that - e.g. apps such as Voyager, Thunder, and Interstellar helped Lemmy (& the latter Mbin) thrive, and now all of those are adding support for PieFed, thus ensuring that none of the previous efforts were wasted, even as they move forward into the future rather than remain stagnant in the past.
But there are reasons why people don't like coming here - and those still need to be solved. First among them is that the tools have to get better, which is happening. Second, start posting content, and make it fun to spend time here. I see people doing that constantly, making my time here enjoyable.:-) Third, maybe more will be needed beyond those two steps but I don't know anything about that, so I just focus on the former two steps and leave the rest to the future:-).
Letβs see, so we covered how we are a Nazi bar
You lost me there. You didn't even hook me enough for the piefed part!
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Every single person that I've ever told about Lemmy has not only refused to join, but outright chided me for having recommended it to them. Every. Single. One.
It does not help - and I did not know myself at first - that a Google search of "Lemmy" points people to lemmy.ml, which btw to someone without an account does not show "Fediverse" content and instead rather shows exclusively Local (rather than Global). The amount of bOtH sIdEs SaMe political content is always rather extreme, especially there.
Aside from platforming political extremism, and using Arch Linux (and beans π« π«), there just isn't much else to this place. For us here, it is enough... unless we need to actually know about stuff and for that we go back to Reddit or whatever - especially niche topics that are discussed nowhere else -> if you want the content then you have to go to where it is at. The content creators refuse to come here and I don't blame them: we aren't a very welcoming bunch.
Let's see, so we covered how we are a Nazi bar, how content creators can't be arsed to bother posting here, oh yeah and there's also the fact that Lemmy is somehow more authoritian than Reddit was. There is a modlog but no modmail, no notification when your content is removed, no ability to appeal or discuss (especially when the modlog merely says that the removal was done by a "mod" - it used to say the name of the mod but then it was changed to merely say "mod", so note how Lemmy is becoming more rather than less totalitarian as time passes) or again even so much as be told that your stuff is now gone - and unlike Reddit, taking all of the conversations that happened on a post along with it (when Reddit removed a post it merely took away the link from the community, but someone with the URL could still continue to interact with it for a long time, whereas Lemmy does not even acknowledge that a post once used to exist, instead mentioning a server error and - get this - that you should try again later to access it...
π₯΄ despite knowing full well that the post will never be un-removed; I am not suggesting that this misleading message is intentionally inaccurate, just stating once more how undemocratic this is that a mod can basically wipe out most traces that a post ever existed even in the past).But is there a thought that making an alternative Reddit would be super easy and fun and require zero effort? Lemmy is still extremely far behind Reddit in terms of features and will take many more years to catch up, if ever, and it's hyper-authoritian nature will always remain baked directly in (plus the Nazi bar effect... it's literally right there in the very name!). Though you might check out PieFed - in terms of features it has already surpassed Reddit in many ways, though it is still early in development (e.g. most days there is no Preview ability for posts or comments - although some days there is so I suspect it is almost ready to remain rolled out as a permanent feature?), and it has some fascinating ideas about democratization of moderation. PieFed is written in Python rather than Rust and so features come out in days to months rather than years. PieFed still shows posts from Lemmy.ml, but unlike lemmy.ml itself, does not do so exclusively, so offers a far more global and democratic platform. I'm placing my hopes in PieFed rather than the dying Lemmy moving forward. I usually get downvoted for saying all this... yet here we are on a post saying how MAUs for Lemmy are decreasing and calling into question whether Lemmy will even survive or not - while btw those numbers for PieFed recently tripled in size - so history has and will continue to prove this point accurate. There is hope for the Fediverse, not specifically for Lemmy I think (there is just too much wrong there and the efforts continue to move in the opposite direction, more towards rather than away from authoritarian control, which trends towards fewer rather than more content, i.e. it intentionally creates "echo chambers"), but for the wider Fediverse, yes. It will take actual effort to build it up though. Each step moves towards that - e.g. apps such as Voyager, Thunder, and Interstellar helped Lemmy (& the latter Mbin) thrive, and now all of those are adding support for PieFed, thus ensuring that none of the previous efforts were wasted, even as they move forward into the future rather than remain stagnant in the past.
But there are reasons why people don't like coming here - and those still need to be solved. First among them is that the tools have to get better, which is happening. Second, start posting content, and make it fun to spend time here. I see people doing that constantly, making my time here enjoyable.:-) Third, maybe more will be needed beyond those two steps but I don't know anything about that, so I just focus on the former two steps and leave the rest to the future:-).
Every single person that I've ever told about Lemmy has not only refused to join, but outright chided me for having recommended it to them. Every. Single. One.
I have a hard time believing that since it implies every single person you proposed Lemmy to was already aware of it. The reaction I personally tend to get is "...what? Huh. Never heard of it".
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Prove me wrong.
I've provided more facts to support my claim than you have for yours. I've provided nothing, whereas you have actively lied about the nothing you've brought forth. I don't need to prove anything to you.
Not that I could, conservatives don't think anyway, and you can't logic someone out of a position they felt their way into.
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So people still have to choose an instance to login to? This is just to save you from creating an account which is like 25 keystrokes and 4 clicks?
I also don't really want to make things easier for people who get banned often, sounds like it would be easier for trolls to bounce between hundreds of instances with fewer accounts.
If u get banned from somewhere from one instance ur also banned from other instances. Its basically just creating a meta id for user ids.
