Government condemns Glastonbury chants aired live on BBC
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I agree. But we also need to look at the lies they are told and how pervasive those lies are recruiters are basically child groomers. Very few people join because they think they are going to get to kill civilians.
Again plenty and plenty of idf soldiers are filming themselves enjoying and being proud of their crimes you can't claim that they didn't know what they are doing. IDF is pure pure pure evil a lot worse than Hamas
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Israel is a democracy with a far-right government, not fascism. Even though the situation in the Westbank might be similar to Apartheid. Nazi-Germany executed an industrial murder of over 6 million Jews, this is not the same!
wrote last edited by [email protected]In terms of being accurate with our history, dont forget that 17 million people died in those camps, not just 6 million jewish people. In the movies its always solely jewish people being murdered. Russian citizens, soldier, catholics, gypsies, gays, disabled. we never talk about that extra 11 million dead, and each of those lives was as precious as your own life, or any other humans life. The takeaway from that should be that no genocide will ever be allowed again, of any race or any people. That obviously includes Palestinians and Muslims.
What do you think datadroplet, do you agree?
edit: and of course, datadroplet declines to comment about that. Seems like denial of genocide to me which I believe is against lemmys rules.
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You can choose to not join or to leave the IDF (it might cost you some jail time, but if that’s the price for keeping one’s soul, so be it). You can’t choose to not be an Arab.
I see this delusional and out of touch argument being made all over the internet, and it's so damn annoying. These takes are always from chronically online larpers who never leave the comfort of their house, they always say shit like:
"why don't people of Iran just overthrow the theocracy?"
"why don't the people of North Korea just topple the Kim dynasty?"
"why don't Russian conscripts just refuse to fight in Ukraine?"
"why don't Israelis just refuse to be in the IDF?"
"why don't Americans just have a revolution?"
Could it be because that reality is not that simple? It's easy to sit there in your dark room all day dreaming about being a heroic revolutionary, but in reality? You wouldn't do shit because you understand that the consequences are a lot harsher in reality than in your imagination. This over simplistic view of the world just boils away the complexity and nuance of humanity. Nobody is willing to risk their freedom, stability, future, or life to appear moral or have a "clean soul". When shit gets real and you're in the same position as all these people, you'll end up doing the same as them. If reality was that easy then we wouldn't have tyrannical regimes or wars or exploitation, but we do. Trying to blame a 20 year conscript for being forced to serve in the military by extremist leaders is stupid and unhelpful. They're not making the situation better, but it's also not their fault they're in that position in the first place.
And yet we are all accountable for our actions.
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Its not though. Do you think a few years in prison will make you a better person? Or having to find a job as a felon or whatever the Israeli equivalent is? you are asking people to do shit no one will ever ask of you and you will never be put in a similar situation. Fuck the IDF, but if you want this to end you have to see the whole picture.
I think we should disallow any travelers or trade from Israel into my country. No currency of fascists should be traded with dollars, until as a state they atone for their crimes.
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Again plenty and plenty of idf soldiers are filming themselves enjoying and being proud of their crimes you can't claim that they didn't know what they are doing. IDF is pure pure pure evil a lot worse than Hamas
The people filming it would be the absolute worst of them or maybe the IDF only uses the most absolute sociopaths for their combat roles. The dude cleaning floors or whatever to avoid going to prison should not be held in the same regard as the dude executing children.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia
The Spanish are a great bunch of lads
Fada beò an Spàinn!
They are a great people and a lot of fun. And deeply distrustful of the state for a lot of reasons. And they and Ireland are increasingly taking up the mantle of leaders of the free world. Germany and the US governments are corrupt and shameful.
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I think we should disallow any travelers or trade from Israel into my country. No currency of fascists should be traded with dollars, until as a state they atone for their crimes.
Maybe? Isreal would still have the better weapon platforms then its regional neighbors and i think will more likely use a nuke in a situation like that if it feels desperate enough.
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Hey col, let's sprinkle in some real antisemitism. Unbelievable.
wrote last edited by [email protected]You'd like to claim that being against Israeli murder is antisemitism and thats never been true. Its dishonest, it's arguing via a category error, and communicating in bad faith.
Its a cheap facile con that also serves as a slight against the person you are talking to, by using such a stupid argument in a seemingly serious manner.
You're not as clever as you think. You're just weaponizing peoples wish for a just system to your own malignant purposes. We all see you.
Ben Gurion famously said of the zionist crimes of the Nakba in 1948, "The old will die and the young will forget." But we will not forget. This will never be normalized, and Israel will remain a pariah people. That is a danger to global jewry and is itself the true antisemtisim thats happening today. Its being perpetrated by zionists like yourself.
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Any negative statements toward Isreal are considered antisemitism by the right. What a joke
The right, who are outright Nazis claiming to be against “anti-semitism” is such a fucking ludicrous joke.
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These idiots also chanted "up Hamas, up Hezbollah". How stupid do you habe to be to publicly support terrorism? This is not helping the Palestinian cause.
Will you admit that theres been about 100 years of vicious zionist terrorism? Its well documented.
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Are you excusing islamist terrorism, rape and beheadings?
I could cut and paste articles of Israeli terrorism, israeli rape, and israeli murders. Lots more then you could find from the "islamist" side. So thats a pretty weak point of rhetorical attack I'd say, especially since the zionists started this during the Nakba.
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Are you excusing jewish terrorism, rape and blowing babies with bombs?
he's sure trying.
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Then we should be thinking hard about how these countries recruit. I am not saying defend the war criminals, but if you want to fight them you have to see how they work.
Look at all these countries that fought the nazis long ago and how they became more and more fascist afterward. you would think they would be smarter then this, but it is clear all the wrong lessons have been learned.
Sure, but that's a whole different convo from finding "your honor, I had to murder the 5 year old; the alternative was a couple of months in prison and flipping burgers for the rest of my life" at all agreeable.
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The people filming it would be the absolute worst of them or maybe the IDF only uses the most absolute sociopaths for their combat roles. The dude cleaning floors or whatever to avoid going to prison should not be held in the same regard as the dude executing children.
Common you know that death to idf means idf soldiers deserve to be killed in gaza . Palestinians has the right to self defence in gaza and the west bank. Do you really believe that the artist or anybody here is justifying killing someone cleansing floor for the idf?
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In terms of being accurate with our history, dont forget that 17 million people died in those camps, not just 6 million jewish people. In the movies its always solely jewish people being murdered. Russian citizens, soldier, catholics, gypsies, gays, disabled. we never talk about that extra 11 million dead, and each of those lives was as precious as your own life, or any other humans life. The takeaway from that should be that no genocide will ever be allowed again, of any race or any people. That obviously includes Palestinians and Muslims.
What do you think datadroplet, do you agree?
edit: and of course, datadroplet declines to comment about that. Seems like denial of genocide to me which I believe is against lemmys rules.
Don't forget the millions of Poles
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"Death to the IDF" is not what I would chant, but it's honestly mild compared to the kinds of slogans (eg. "Death to Arabs" and "Let your village burn") West-funded, West-supported, West-armed, and West-protected-from-accountability Israeli fanatics chant before committing actual fucking atrocities. Hell, it's mild compared to the Amalek rhetoric of Israeli state leadership.
Edit: why is "death to the IDF" mild compared to "death to Arabs"? You can choose to not join or to leave the IDF (it might cost you some jail time, but if that's the price for keeping one's soul, so be it). You can at the very least not self-identify with it and distance yourself from what it has become. Basically, there are many off ramps out of the IDF. There are no ramps off of existing as an Arab.
Absolutely! It's in the choice. You consciously choose to be part of the IDF, you aren't born into it, and thus it's not a hateful statement. You know, except for BBC weaklings
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Don't forget the millions of Poles
Dang. Good call, yes.
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AFAIK you can also not join the IDF by simply being extremely religious.
Yea, Orthodox Jews have total exemption from joining the armed forces. If you really don't want to murder children and steal land, go study the Talmud. No excuse.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia
The Spanish are a great bunch of lads
Fada beò an Spàinn!
I love how Orwell - being so iconic today - had to be described as "Author of 'The Road to Wigan Pier' etc"
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If Zionists had any real leverage they could use to control states Spain and Ireland (and to a lesser extent France under Macron) wouldn't be outspoken advocates for Palestinian rights
I'm not sure what has given Spain their perspective but at least in Ireland there is no amount of propaganda you could throw at us to change public perception here, largely on a moral ground, but we also have that sweet, sweet history of oppression. We were all horrified on October 6th but there's no justification for the current genocide.
Really fucking tired of antisemitism bring bandied about as the reason for our support too. Children are being shot in the street, losing limbs and being starved as a weapon of war FFS. Antisemitism is a real and nasty thing and the word is being cheapened by the hour.
Very happy to have a larger country along for the ride with us. History is on our side.
Big ups to you! No "skin in the game" but taking the right side. Disappointed in my own government. Luckily basically every regular person I've ever spoken with about it agrees with the take.. Just the state..
