Government condemns Glastonbury chants aired live on BBC
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You can choose to not join or to leave the IDF (it might cost you some jail time, but if that’s the price for keeping one’s soul, so be it). You can’t choose to not be an Arab.
I see this delusional and out of touch argument being made all over the internet, and it's so damn annoying. These takes are always from chronically online larpers who never leave the comfort of their house, they always say shit like:
"why don't people of Iran just overthrow the theocracy?"
"why don't the people of North Korea just topple the Kim dynasty?"
"why don't Russian conscripts just refuse to fight in Ukraine?"
"why don't Israelis just refuse to be in the IDF?"
"why don't Americans just have a revolution?"
Could it be because that reality is not that simple? It's easy to sit there in your dark room all day dreaming about being a heroic revolutionary, but in reality? You wouldn't do shit because you understand that the consequences are a lot harsher in reality than in your imagination. This over simplistic view of the world just boils away the complexity and nuance of humanity. Nobody is willing to risk their freedom, stability, future, or life to appear moral or have a "clean soul". When shit gets real and you're in the same position as all these people, you'll end up doing the same as them. If reality was that easy then we wouldn't have tyrannical regimes or wars or exploitation, but we do. Trying to blame a 20 year conscript for being forced to serve in the military by extremist leaders is stupid and unhelpful. They're not making the situation better, but it's also not their fault they're in that position in the first place.
Many of the Russian invasion forces have desserted/defected to Ukraine. IDF could do the same. I mean like just run far away, never look back.
It wont be easy to desert, but like, if you are part of the russian invasion force, you're gonna get shot, same with the IDF. If its "not your fault" for being conscripted, is also "not their fault" for the opposing side to shooting the invaders, the opposing side is also "just doing their job".
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The right, who are outright Nazis claiming to be against “anti-semitism” is such a fucking ludicrous joke.
wrote last edited by [email protected]If i could invent a time machine and send them to a wwii internment camps I would. That way they could see what real antisemitism looks like. Not this scapegoat bs they are doing today
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Many of the Russian invasion forces have desserted/defected to Ukraine. IDF could do the same. I mean like just run far away, never look back.
It wont be easy to desert, but like, if you are part of the russian invasion force, you're gonna get shot, same with the IDF. If its "not your fault" for being conscripted, is also "not their fault" for the opposing side to shooting the invaders, the opposing side is also "just doing their job".
You're saying it as if this is common, it's absolutely not. Russian defections and desertions to Ukraine and vice versa are very rare, and for good reason. The chances of you successfully running away are slim compared to failing and getting killed by either Russia or Ukraine. If it was as easy as you think it is then number of causalities among troops in this war wouldn't be in the millions.
But this also ignores how these are not comparable situations at all. The Gaza war is nothing like the Ukraine war, where are IDF conscripts supposed to defect to? It's not like there's anything in Gaza, they can't leave through legal channels, and all their neighboring countries will kill them the moment they find out they're in the IDF. It's a difficult situation to be in.
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Sure, man. Repeating antisemitic conspiracy ideology is helping the thing.
Maybe some people should stop reading "The Protocols of the elders of Zion".
wrote last edited by [email protected]A heavy accusation.
The Guardian newspaper, New York Times, Oxford research, Mondoweiss all cite the quote without any note of it being controversial, so your calling it a conspiracy theory is itself the conspiracy theory, unless you have some proof? Show us all your proof of your libelous accusation that is of similar standing to those 4 sources?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/may/12/israel1
https://mondoweiss.net/2013/06/the-young-palestinian/
It also is exactly the same sentiment Ben Gurion expressed in so many venues and written letters in very similar wording. Are you denying that this is what -- and how Ben Gurion (aka David Gruen before he moved from New York city to Palestine to found Israel) thought? Does your reflex toward revisionist history stretch so far? And you are pivotting from one lie to another aren't you, because I see you have nothing to say about your previous accusation about "antisemtisim" huh. Well thats fine, I accept your apology as long as you don't let those lies and slanderous accusations happen again.
Back up your self serving fantastical claims or dont make them. No one here has time for lies.
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Love that the "just following orders" defense is making a comeback. Just as valid today as during the Nuremberg trials.
The big takeaway from WWII is that the Nazis were evil and responsible for the atrocities that they committed, not the German people. Low ranking soldiers being complacent through coercion is not the same thing as being a leader who has influence over the situation. That's why we condemn Hitler and the Nazi leaders, and not the foot soldiers.
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And yet we are all accountable for our actions.
This is true, but we also have to acknowledge that things aren't simple or as black and white as they seem.
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You're saying it as if this is common, it's absolutely not. Russian defections and desertions to Ukraine and vice versa are very rare, and for good reason. The chances of you successfully running away are slim compared to failing and getting killed by either Russia or Ukraine. If it was as easy as you think it is then number of causalities among troops in this war wouldn't be in the millions.
But this also ignores how these are not comparable situations at all. The Gaza war is nothing like the Ukraine war, where are IDF conscripts supposed to defect to? It's not like there's anything in Gaza, they can't leave through legal channels, and all their neighboring countries will kill them the moment they find out they're in the IDF. It's a difficult situation to be in.
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By the way, do apply the same logic to the Hamas fighters.
Weren't some of the attackers on Oct 7th literal children? I remember reading reports of some of them being teenagers... and yes, the same thing applies to them. A leader like Sinwar and a child soldier should not get the same blame, that's just silly.
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I edited my comment since I made it. Here is the newer version. Bold the bit that I think adresses your concern.
Edit: why is "death to the IDF" mild compared to "death to Arabs"? You can choose to not join or to leave the IDF (it might cost you some jail time, but if that's the price for keeping one's soul, so be it). You can at the very least not self-identify with it and distance yourself from what it has become. Basically, there are many off ramps out of the IDF. There are no ramps off of existing as an Arab.
I agree with this.
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This is true, but we also have to acknowledge that things aren't simple or as black and white as they seem.
wrote last edited by [email protected]And yet, genocide and ethnic cleansing of innocent people absolutely is a black and white issue. Its not subject to debate and its not a grey area. The commitments were made and the treaty documents signed.
any of the results of the recent polling in Israel seem very grey to you?
https://archive.ph/Tjoj3. (Haaratz poll, architve.todayed it because its behind a paywall)47% of Israelis want to murder every living non jewish human in Palestine.
56% want to expel Israeli citizens who arent Jewish.
93% say that the biblical command to kill every descendent of the tribe of Amalek (and their children and livetsock) still applies today somehow. So they want to kill palestinian's pets now too? Just 7% of israelis are against mass murder from their dusty holy book, it seems.
82% want to ethnically cleanse the Palestinian territories.
Ethnic cleansing and genocide based on ethnicity are not compatible with modern society and that's black and white. There is no wiggle room.
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Comparing Israel to Nazi-Germany is antisemitic and comparing the war crimes in Gaza to the Holocaust is at least Holocaust minimization.
Also criticizing people for supporting islamistic terrorists like Hamas or Hezbollah doesn't imply support for Israel.
If criticizing Israel for committing a genocide and maintaining an apartheid state is anti-Semitic then I guess you consider genocide and racism Jewish tenets
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The right, who are outright Nazis claiming to be against “anti-semitism” is such a fucking ludicrous joke.
Because Israel validates their ethnostate ideas.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia
The Spanish are a great bunch of lads
Fada beò an Spàinn!
Well I learned a lot so thanks. Particularly surprised at the levels that anarchism reached there. I'm listening to the 'revolutions" podcast at the moment (highly recommended) and just coming into the Russian revolutions so I can see the seeds of it.
Have you read the book you linked? Any good?
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Well I learned a lot so thanks. Particularly surprised at the levels that anarchism reached there. I'm listening to the 'revolutions" podcast at the moment (highly recommended) and just coming into the Russian revolutions so I can see the seeds of it.
Have you read the book you linked? Any good?
wrote last edited by [email protected]Aye, true progress was being made and that couldn't be allowed to happen. Germany's Blitzkrieg tactics were practised on Spain before they began their expansion.
I tried but I have an unfortunate case of bees in my brain so I didn't finish it. Need to give it another go. The portion that I read was interesting though!
Who's the revolutions podcast by?
Edit: https://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/revolutions_podcast/ this?
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Comparing Israel to Nazi-Germany is antisemitic and comparing the war crimes in Gaza to the Holocaust is at least Holocaust minimization.
Also criticizing people for supporting islamistic terrorists like Hamas or Hezbollah doesn't imply support for Israel.
This is satire, right?
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Aye, true progress was being made and that couldn't be allowed to happen. Germany's Blitzkrieg tactics were practised on Spain before they began their expansion.
I tried but I have an unfortunate case of bees in my brain so I didn't finish it. Need to give it another go. The portion that I read was interesting though!
Who's the revolutions podcast by?
Edit: https://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/revolutions_podcast/ this?
Yeah that's the lad. The history of Rome is incredible. I only fell into Revolutions because I needed something to fill the gap after history of Rome and his style is very easy listening.
I'm being a bit more picky with the sections I listen to in revolutions but really enjoying it so far.
It's on Spotify etc if you have that.
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Comparing Israel to Nazi-Germany is antisemitic and comparing the war crimes in Gaza to the Holocaust is at least Holocaust minimization.
Also criticizing people for supporting islamistic terrorists like Hamas or Hezbollah doesn't imply support for Israel.
Comparisons don't need to be 100% equivalent. Nazism was about the supremacy of the pseudo race called Aryan, zionism is about jewish supremacy
The nazis was doing mass shooting, the idf do mass shooting and mass bombing. Both the nazis and the idf are starving people. The Nazis used gas chambers, the idf is shooting at people seeking aids with the new terrorist organization claiming to be an aid organization
Just because holocaust killed a lot more people doesn't mean we can't compare it with the genocide is gaza.You make the antisemitism worse by using it for any criticism of Israel. The fact that you call resistance group terrorism terrorism but say nothing about Israel terrorism being a lot more brutal for 77 years show that you are not neutral
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Israel is a democracy with a far-right government, not fascism. Even though the situation in the Westbank might be similar to Apartheid. Nazi-Germany executed an industrial murder of over 6 million Jews, this is not the same!
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I'm so tired about people only criticizing Netanyahu. Sure he is the worst of worst for Palestinians but every single goddamn prime was oppressing Palestinians . The problem is the fundamental ideology that run Israel zionism
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No it’s not. Because Netanyahu alone isn’t responsible for Gaza, everyone supporting Zionism is and especially those who are in the Zionist army that is the one carrying out the genocide.
