Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy

[thesaltypenguin@piefed.social]

Recently joined and started a community for people who want to move away from Lemmy and want to see Lemmy loosen its stranglehold on the threadiverse, if that seems like something interesting to you consider checking out [email protected]

[mike_wooskey@lemmy.thewooskeys.com]

Did...did you start a lemmy community for people to talk about not talking on lemmy...on lemmy?

[alabaster_mango@lemmy.ca]

It appears to be a Piefed community. You can see it on Lemmy through the magic of federation though.

[quokka@quokk.au]

I just moved my instance over to PieFed on the weekend.

If anyone is looking for a smaller PieFed instance away from the bigger players, we'd love to have you here at quokk.au.

[scytale@lemmy.zip]

Do you know where I can see a list of piefed instances?

[lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com]

Features

Nice things about PieFed:

• Written in a common programming language that many developers understand and which has a bright future ahead of it. Python, of course! This will enable more contributions from a wider range of people than if it was made with Erlang, Ruby, Rust or PHP, for example.
• Constructed in a simple and straightforward manner that new contributors can come to grips with quickly. No fancy algorithms, special design patterns, fragile build process, or front-end framework. Just Flask with sprinklings of vanilla JS and htmx.
• Keep third party dependencies to an absolute minimum, to make server administration easier. Python + database (PostgreSQL) and you’re good to go! Redis optional.
• Consume few resources, to make it cheap to run. Many examples of federated software are bloated Rube Goldberg machines that require hefty servers and serious server administration skills, making money a constant problem. PieFed instances will be small and nimble.
• Emphasise trust, safety and happiness, drawing inspiration from the Mastodon Covenant.
• Built to last using tried and true technology that will still work decades from now.

Differences between Lemmy and PieFed

• Comments with -10 score are collapsed by default.
• Communities are organized into topics. See https://piefed.social/topics.
• Image-heavy communities can have a tiled/masonry view, like https://piefed.social/c/[email protected]
• People who get downvoted a lot end up with a ‘low reputation’ indicator next to their name. You’ll know it when you see it.
• Hide all posts based on keyword filters.
• Keyboard shortcuts.
• Upvotes in meme communities do not add to reputation.
• Better UI design (somewhat subjective!)
• Improved hotness ranking algorithm (subjective)
• Voting is private.
• See also features for healthy communities.
• Each community has it’s own wiki.

Mastodon Covenant & "safe spaces" are overmoderated trash.
Features for healthy communities consist of Reddity moderation tactics.

Heavy handed moderation is the main reason Reddit disgusts me, so no thanks, & fuck that shit.

[underline960@sh.itjust.works]

You can sell me on Piefed without trying to cancel Lemmy out of nowhere.

How does it compare to mbin as a Lemmy alternative?

[kaboom@reddthat.com]

People who get downvoted a lot end up with a ‘low reputation’ indicator next to their name. You’ll know it when you see it.

Software enforced echo chambers, as if it wasn't bad enough.

Everything else looks so good about piefed, sad to see a deal breaker like that.

[draconic_neo@lemmy.world]

I've always thought it was really weird and really dumb sentiment to want to cancel Lemmy, as an Open source software. It's like people think they need to endorse the developers' views to use Lemmy, or pay them money to use the software. But like that's really dumb. Lemmy is free and opensource software, the developers have no say in who uses it, it's also opensource meaning anyone can fork it. So this position just seems weird and reactionary.

One thing that really makes me reluctant about the future of piefed is the fact that it runs on Python. Great for tinkering but it likely won't scale well, and Python is famous for breaking backwards compatibility. So expect this project to be hosed when Python 4 or 5 comes out and breaks compatibility or syntax with the previous version. I saw this happen with Kodi and other platforms with Python Based plugins, and it'll most definitely happen again, not to say it can't happen with something like Rust or Go, but these compiled languages are designed for big projects, python is just one-off scripts, so the ones maintaining languages like Rust, Go, C++ work a bit harder to keep them as functionally compatible as possible so big projects aren't crippled and trashed by an update.

Anyway that's my opinion on this whole thing, I don't believe Piefed is the future, and I do not think Instance Admins should jump at the chance to abandon Lemmy. Maybe for sublinks if it ever comes out, but not for piefed.

[draconic_neo@lemmy.world]

• Image-heavy communities can have a tiled/masonry view, like https://piefed.social/c/[email protected]

So what you're saying is that they have a Social Credit Karma system like Reddit does? I already hate it.

• Upvotes in meme communities do not add to reputation.

Oh a really strict social credit system. Yeah fuck piefed for sure. It's already bad enough that people maliciously downvote comments on lemmy with alts, giving power to their votes will just make that shit worse.

As much as people give the Lemmy Devs shit they work hard to prevent this from happening on Lemmy, they removed the score API so people couldn't use Karma bots like Reddit does, they have a publicly exposed modlog so mod actions can be called out and critiqued (piefed has no modlog as far as I can tell). They may have their problems but Lemmy is a far better platform in terms of freedom and open-ness. Piefed is the real Reddit 2.0 complete with it's own social credit system, designed to make people with less popular opinions (or people at the mercy of downvote brigading) be ostracized.

[bonjour@mander.xyz]

Are you ashamed of your post history or why did you create a new account for this noble cause?

[shimitar@downonthestreet.eu]

Interested, how do I move an instance from Lemmy to piefed?

[quokka@quokk.au]

At the moment, you basically have to restart it all with a fresh install of PieFed on your server.

They are working on features options to transfer over and copy the content etc, but that may be many months away still.

[notprolemmy@lemmy.ml]

Get my downvote and out

[quokka@quokk.au]

Those are all optional choices for instances.

So what you're saying is that they have a Social Credit Karma system like Reddit does? I already hate it.

Not that I'm aware of, members can see what percentage others vote (i.e. do you vote 100% downvotes?) but that's about it. Mods and admins can see a reputation metric, but that's not forward facing to the public and simply a way for bad faith actors to be flagged.

Upvotes in meme communities do not add to reputation.

You can set it on a per instance or community scale as to if votes count, if you only accept votes from your instance, etc. It's actually a really handy option to have, maybe you want a community for only local members to vote on policy etc, well now you can filter it so only they can vote in here.

(piefed has no modlog as far as I can tell)

Admins can turn it on/off, I've turned it on for my instance.
https://quokk.au/modlog

[shimitar@downonthestreet.eu]

So I will stick on Lemmy for the time being. After all I don't care for down votes, I think votes in general should not be private, because this is like a public plaza what you say is public, and attaching a reputation because of down votes is dangerously bullying and a slippery slope, so piefed doesn't actually feel like my pie at the moment.

Still maybe I will try a fresh installation just to check it out.

[draconic_neo@lemmy.world]

Admins can turn it on/off, I’ve turned it on for my instance. https://quokk.au/modlog

That's still not really much better. It should be on by default, the whole reason there's a modlog is for liability. Hiding the modlog isn't doing anyone any favors, don't try to tell me that there's merit to that. Obfuscation of mod actions is hiding them from accountability.

So what you're saying is that they have a Social Credit Karma system like Reddit does? I already hate it.

Not that I'm aware of, members can see what percentage others vote (i.e. do you vote 100% downvotes?) but that's about it. Mods and admins can see a reputation metric, but that's not forward facing to the public and simply a way for bad faith actors to be flagged.

Piefed puts weight on votes, the software punishes for being downvoted a lot. Therefore this is in a sense a social credit system. And it's made worse by the fact that you can exclude upvotes from counting but downvotes still count in there, so you can make it very difficult to earn social credit reputation but easy to lose it. That's not acceptable to me, that's worse than the environment on Reddit. This isn't a good thing.

[db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com]

Mate,you have a 20 year old perception of python. "good for tinkering", Cheezus...

[draconic_neo@lemmy.world]

Are you denying the problem of Backwards compatibility with python versions? It was and still is a big problem today. I'm still seeing the affects of that though many communities. I don't really think it's only good for tinkering but I know its developers clearly do, otherwise they wouldn't have subjected us to the transition from python 2.7 to python 3 and the fallout that followed, and people wouldn't have been so eager to comply with them dropping python 2.7 support in all their python integrated envionments before you could say bitrot.

Yeah somehow that doesn't give me much confidence for the future.

[zonnewin@feddit.nl]

Better UI design

Not from what I've seen.

I don't have a problem with Lemmy as software. I do wish the devs weren't tankies, but we don't have to engage with them.