Poland aims for up to a million mines on eastern borders
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Good time to start planning. Well done, Poland.
I dont know, but mines are generally a really shitty technology. In other regions of the world there are still people dying to this day, because of uncleared mines. This will also kill a lot of refugees who try to come into the EU.
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Fuck, never thought I’d agree with something like this and actually think the reasoning I give myself, to let myself agree with such obviously bad stuff, makes sense.
It’s so fucking depressing. While I don’t live in Poland, I live in a Russia-bordering country with similar stuff having been debated for a very long time, and still today, though as I understand it, we never gave up our mines in the first place, for reasons that now make perfect sense and seem good, but without hindsight never seemed good in the past and seemed simply wrong.
We do A, that’s very bad and leaves us open for attack, which doesn’t seem like such fantasy today, when Ukraine is under such an attack. But say we do B… that’s morally reprehensible and just outright bad, too.
I can’t reason about these things, because it just ends up feeling like I am abandoning my principles and some ethical standards I’ve long held… but then again I can’t rightly go against these things either, because they seem perfectly rational deterrents right now, to avoid a majorly fucked up situation down the road.
I feel like I’m losing myself as a human, as a conscious being, because the reality no longer matches the expectations I’ve had and the “rules” I’ve long maintained do exist.
But is it better to now feel like you’re betraying yourself, to potentially help defend future generations from having to lose themselves in a similar manner? Or is it better to stay true to myself and potentially help the fall of our current progressive, socially even impressive situation, after which the principles I stood so true to, are no longer even a possibility? Or does choosing the former actually lead to the increase of the chance of future looking equally bleak and unstable?
I don’t know. I don’t fucking know. And I hate it.
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I dont know, but mines are generally a really shitty technology. In other regions of the world there are still people dying to this day, because of uncleared mines. This will also kill a lot of refugees who try to come into the EU.
What do you suggest instead?
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What do you suggest instead?
First of all: Literally everything else.
Secondly: Russia is failing to invade Ukraine for 3 years. Do you really think that we are anywhere close to having a war between Russia and NATO? I think its kinda sad seeing all this fearmongering that Russia is about to attack us tomorrow while they still fail to invade Ukraine.
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If they were put there by North Korea, are 90% of them made of cardboard like the display fruit in their fake supermarkets?
Landmines are really easy, so probably not
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I dont know, but mines are generally a really shitty technology. In other regions of the world there are still people dying to this day, because of uncleared mines. This will also kill a lot of refugees who try to come into the EU.
The problem isn't the known minefields. Those are fine, you can put a big fucking fence around it and place a sign.
The danger is all the non-marked minefields. All the random mines placed by small units for tactical reasons, all the stuff that wasn't recorded anywhere. The fields Ukraine place in Ukraine aren't the problem, they know where those are. The ones Russia places are a problem, because (judging by the fact that russians still occasionally run into their own mines) they don't even know where they are.
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First of all: Literally everything else.
Secondly: Russia is failing to invade Ukraine for 3 years. Do you really think that we are anywhere close to having a war between Russia and NATO? I think its kinda sad seeing all this fearmongering that Russia is about to attack us tomorrow while they still fail to invade Ukraine.
This is vastly preferable to other measures, because a good
fenceslines of defense make for good neighbors. Letting the Russians know there's mines there, that Poland is totally fine with killing one million russians stepping across the border, sends one hell of a message. -
The problem isn't the known minefields. Those are fine, you can put a big fucking fence around it and place a sign.
The danger is all the non-marked minefields. All the random mines placed by small units for tactical reasons, all the stuff that wasn't recorded anywhere. The fields Ukraine place in Ukraine aren't the problem, they know where those are. The ones Russia places are a problem, because (judging by the fact that russians still occasionally run into their own mines) they don't even know where they are.
The Problem with known minefields is,that if enough time passes, without the fields getting cleared, people might forget about it and then you have one hell of a problem.
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I would think a million is a lot for any amount of anything except for like grains of rice
"I love rice when I'm hungry and want 2,000 of something."
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First of all: Literally everything else.
Secondly: Russia is failing to invade Ukraine for 3 years. Do you really think that we are anywhere close to having a war between Russia and NATO? I think its kinda sad seeing all this fearmongering that Russia is about to attack us tomorrow while they still fail to invade Ukraine.
And if Trump forces a "peace" deal? Allows Russia to upgrade, rearm and recruit? Which is very much in the cards, atm. Better to have and not need, than to need and not have.
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Depressing as hell, but I don't really see another great option. Y'all better be hardening your borders with Russia and getting your militaries prepared. 50% of our country either betrayed us, or betrayed us by not voting. I don't see us getting back to normal for 10-20 years, based on the amount of damage they are doing to our country ATM.
I feel terrible for our friends and allies.
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First of all: Literally everything else.
Secondly: Russia is failing to invade Ukraine for 3 years. Do you really think that we are anywhere close to having a war between Russia and NATO? I think its kinda sad seeing all this fearmongering that Russia is about to attack us tomorrow while they still fail to invade Ukraine.
A good thing you're not in charge of military planning.
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I dont know, but mines are generally a really shitty technology. In other regions of the world there are still people dying to this day, because of uncleared mines. This will also kill a lot of refugees who try to come into the EU.
Real refugees who try to come into the EU are welcomed to enter through designated border crossings.
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Real refugees who try to come into the EU are welcomed to enter through designated border crossings.
Careful with your logic!
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Real refugees who try to come into the EU are welcomed to enter through designated border crossings.
You do know, that Poland has been recorded to perform pushbacks on its borders? And now you can guess why people dont want to enter the country through official ways. Also a lot of refugees dont want to seek asylum in Poland, but in other EU countries so entering through official ways might be suboptimal for them.
Also simply saying "Just enter the country through official ways" disregards the situation those refugees are often I to where they have to fear to get pushed back to Die in the wild. No matter what you will do people will always use unofficial ways.
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Shit, I hate mines as much as the next guy, but against a Russia who doesn't care about any kind laws or rules of war you have to use all the tools at your disposal to keep them away.
Europe should probably invest in some kind of European FASCAM alternative. So in the event the Russians actually do launch an attack we can absolutely cover the roads, fields, and forests their side of the border several kilometres deep with mines. While we bunker down and just keep draining their resources on clearing mines in their own land.
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You do know, that Poland has been recorded to perform pushbacks on its borders? And now you can guess why people dont want to enter the country through official ways. Also a lot of refugees dont want to seek asylum in Poland, but in other EU countries so entering through official ways might be suboptimal for them.
Also simply saying "Just enter the country through official ways" disregards the situation those refugees are often I to where they have to fear to get pushed back to Die in the wild. No matter what you will do people will always use unofficial ways.
You do know, that Poland has been recorded to perform pushbacks on its borders?
Yes, I live here.
And now you can guess why people dont want to enter the country through official ways.
No, I don’t, it has nothing to do with pushbacks. Pushbacks were for those who were trying to cross the border illegally in the first place.
Also a lot of refugees dont want to seek asylum in Poland, but in other EU countries so entering through official ways might be suboptimal for them.
Suboptimal?! You know what, tell me your address. I will steal your car because earning money to buy myself my own is suboptimal for me. And maybe we also should provide free healthcare to poor Americans in Europe because them paying for their own is suboptimal for them.
Crossing a border of any EU country is synonymous with entering EU as a whole. Polish border is EU border.
disregards the situation those refugees
They have chosen to enter Belarus or Russia, why not stay there if this is only about survival? They are no longer refugees when entering Poland, they are migrants and as such are no longer protected under the same rules.
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