What do you think of imitation and lab-grown meats?
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I believe cultured meat is the future.
I don't mind the plant-based substitutes and eat them occasionally, but:
- I don't like that they've named them meat-related names (I have the same issue with plant "milk"). This marketing strategy causes an expectation of flavour and texture that disappoints people and puts them off. If the product is good enough, give it its own niche, like tofu.
- Part of the reason vegan / vegetarian diets are healthy is because the food is largely unprocessed, whereas many of these products are highly processed. I'd rather just eat actual vegetables.
Cultured meat has real potential to replace farmed meat because it can provide things no plant-based alternative can, while removing many of the disadvantages of animal farming:
- The taste and texture should eventually be identical to farmed meat.
- It's kinder to animals than farming - not vegan, but not cruel, no-one dies, and far fewer animals are needed.
- It's better for the environment in many ways: less emissions than animal farming, less land required than both animal and plant-based farms, can be produced close to urban centres so less transport should be required.
- It can be fed to pets that are obligate carnivores, like cats. I will never put my dog on a vegan diet but I am following the UK company Meatly, that is specialising in cultured meat for pet food, with interest.
Once cultured meat is a similar price to farmed meat, I believe the ethical and environmental advantages will give it the edge. Many people that will never go vegan or vegetarian will hopefully switch.
I do not believe it is possible for cultured meat to ever be cheaper than industrially farmed meat. An animal as an integrated system has too many inherent efficiency advantages over a lab culture, even an industrially-scaled lab culture.
- Animals have immune systems. Lab cultures have to be grown in a sterile environment, which increases costs.
- Animals have digestive systems and can extract only the needed nutrition from common plant materials. Lab cultures have to be fed pre-digested and carefully proportioned nutrients, which increases costs.
- Animals have extensive circulatory systems that efficiently get nutrients to cells and remove their waste. Lab cultures are centrifuged, which doesn't scale as well.
- Animals have integrated waste processing and excretion systems. Lab cultures have to run external kidney loops, which not only increase costs but are less efficient.
Cultured meat will come down in price, maybe from 10x animal meat to 2-3x, but it's always going to be a novelty/luxury and will never compete on price as long as industrial animal farming practices are legal.
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Recently tried an Impossible burger and nuggets and thought that if nobody told me it wasn't meat, I'd have thought the patty was made out of a weird kind of meat, rather than make a connection with the taste and texture of plants. Honestly, I might not complain if that was the only kind of "meat" I could have for the rest of my life.
Well, maybe I'd miss bacon.
I've yet to find the opportunity to try lab-grown meat, but I for sure would like to try it out and don't see much wrong with it as long as it's sustainable, reasonably priced, and doesn't have anything you wouldn't expect in a normal piece of meat.
Also, with imitation and lab-grown options, I'd no longer have to deal with the disgust factor of handling raw meat (esp. the juices) or biting into gristle. I'll happily devour a hot dog, but something about an unexpected bit of cartilage gives me a lingering sense of revulsion.
Uuh I like this question
I have thought about it because I am vegan and tried figuring out whether I'd be interested in it, and I have no issue to admit that I sometimes crave the taste of meat, while being repulsed by it another time.
After you don't eat meat for a whule you become aware of flavours that you didn't notice before, and there is an undertone of rot. No, it was not off, it was a majority of meats when I followed a flexitarian diet years ago.
So would I eat it? Eh... Likely not? I wouldn't consider it vegan since you'd have to get DNA samples from live animals still to grow the meat, which to me is an unnecessary stress to the animal. But I don't want to dismiss the idea either if it means a rapid decline in livestock and carbon emissions and of course, less animal suffering. -
Their products suck. Their markup is excessive and makes their products cost far more than the equivalent meat products.
This seems overly harsh to me. I've bought plenty of Beyond products (and Impossible, and Morning Star, and many other plant-based meat alternative brands) over the years and I've found them to be fine in terms of quality. I haven't bought them in a while, but I don't recall them being particularly more expensive than the other plant-based meats in the grocery store. Though I virtually always wait for those to go on a good sale before I buy them.
Since plant-based alternatives are competing with the meat industry, which is heavily subsidized to keep meat costs artificially low, I wouldn't say it's fair to say Beyond's products being more expensive than regular meat is why their business is failing. Other plant-based meats I've tried have generally always been more expensive than regular meat.
I'd rather eat a plain block of uncooked tofu than those beyond italian sausages
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Recently tried an Impossible burger and nuggets and thought that if nobody told me it wasn't meat, I'd have thought the patty was made out of a weird kind of meat, rather than make a connection with the taste and texture of plants. Honestly, I might not complain if that was the only kind of "meat" I could have for the rest of my life.
Well, maybe I'd miss bacon.
I've yet to find the opportunity to try lab-grown meat, but I for sure would like to try it out and don't see much wrong with it as long as it's sustainable, reasonably priced, and doesn't have anything you wouldn't expect in a normal piece of meat.
Also, with imitation and lab-grown options, I'd no longer have to deal with the disgust factor of handling raw meat (esp. the juices) or biting into gristle. I'll happily devour a hot dog, but something about an unexpected bit of cartilage gives me a lingering sense of revulsion.
Unnecessary waste of resources.
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Other people have already mentioned how it feels like in your mouth, but I’m going to address a different angle: Ethics and environmental impact.
Modern industrial meat production is incredibly cruel. If you wanted to do the same thing in a more ethical way, the final product would end up being much more expensive, even if you had the economies of scale working in your favor. Meat alternatives would solve that issue.
Producing meat results in a lot of CO2 emissions, so a plant based alternative should be more environmentally friendly. Don’t know about lab meat though. Keeping everything sterile is not cheap or easy, so I guess the LCA of the resulting product should be very interesting to read.
Meat alternatives would solve that issue.
For a price.
Can we all afford lab grown meat? The people making it are all trying to maximize profit by giving the least while charging the most. Keep in mind, that money has to come from somewhere.
As with any new business being built on "ethics," they should be willing to put their money where their mouths are. If they care so much about stopping animal abuse, then they should be charging the lowest price they can tolerate, not the highest price for their customers.
I don't expect most fake-meat companies to do this because they care more about maximizing profit than stopping animal abuse.
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Uuh I like this question
I have thought about it because I am vegan and tried figuring out whether I'd be interested in it, and I have no issue to admit that I sometimes crave the taste of meat, while being repulsed by it another time.
After you don't eat meat for a whule you become aware of flavours that you didn't notice before, and there is an undertone of rot. No, it was not off, it was a majority of meats when I followed a flexitarian diet years ago.
So would I eat it? Eh... Likely not? I wouldn't consider it vegan since you'd have to get DNA samples from live animals still to grow the meat, which to me is an unnecessary stress to the animal. But I don't want to dismiss the idea either if it means a rapid decline in livestock and carbon emissions and of course, less animal suffering.A good thing is that one sample of dna would last indefinitely so it is minimal damage. Not saying it is not a problem at all but atleast it is not systemic and continous exploitation.
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I find it very promising. As much as I love meat, its pretty undeniable that raising livestock is super inefficient. It takes so much food to raise livestock that, iirc, more farmland in the US is dedicated to growing food for our food than to growing food for us. Lab grown meat doesn't completely solve this - there are still lost calories in the process to my knowledge - but its way more efficnient. Plus less land usage, less fossil fuel emissions, overall it would be more sustainable.
I see 2 big problems facing it right now:
The first is scale, which is the more significant. We'd need to figure out how to grow meat on a truly massive scale. Definitely doable though, just needs more research.
The second is "realism" or how close it seems to natural meat. Lab grown meat has the advantage over like plant based stuff because it is actually meat. However, ifnits too perfect or uniform, or maybe doesnr have enough fat or variety, it might be seen as unnatural by many (even just subconsciously) and push them away from it.
But yeah, could be awesome.
Many of the claims of improved efficiency over natural meat are based on projections and rely on technology that doesn't exist yet, or they just ignore things like heating (most of the calories mammals eat go to keeping them warm, but incubators for lab meat need heating electrically, so if you leave out the electricity cost, it gives lab meat an unfair advantage.
It might be more efficient eventually - there's more wiggle room to change things with a machine, but a cow is a cow - but it isn't yet.
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Recently tried an Impossible burger and nuggets and thought that if nobody told me it wasn't meat, I'd have thought the patty was made out of a weird kind of meat, rather than make a connection with the taste and texture of plants. Honestly, I might not complain if that was the only kind of "meat" I could have for the rest of my life.
Well, maybe I'd miss bacon.
I've yet to find the opportunity to try lab-grown meat, but I for sure would like to try it out and don't see much wrong with it as long as it's sustainable, reasonably priced, and doesn't have anything you wouldn't expect in a normal piece of meat.
Also, with imitation and lab-grown options, I'd no longer have to deal with the disgust factor of handling raw meat (esp. the juices) or biting into gristle. I'll happily devour a hot dog, but something about an unexpected bit of cartilage gives me a lingering sense of revulsion.
Since I figured out that I have digestive problems regarding fruit and gluten, and that I get elevated blood pressure when eating certain oils (canola, rapeseed, corn) I‘d probably turn hunter.
While I certainly do like the flavor of meat imitations, I only want to deal with the aftermath when I’m really expecting it.
Maybe lab grown meat could help here, but I think that it’s a long way there.
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Recently tried an Impossible burger and nuggets and thought that if nobody told me it wasn't meat, I'd have thought the patty was made out of a weird kind of meat, rather than make a connection with the taste and texture of plants. Honestly, I might not complain if that was the only kind of "meat" I could have for the rest of my life.
Well, maybe I'd miss bacon.
I've yet to find the opportunity to try lab-grown meat, but I for sure would like to try it out and don't see much wrong with it as long as it's sustainable, reasonably priced, and doesn't have anything you wouldn't expect in a normal piece of meat.
Also, with imitation and lab-grown options, I'd no longer have to deal with the disgust factor of handling raw meat (esp. the juices) or biting into gristle. I'll happily devour a hot dog, but something about an unexpected bit of cartilage gives me a lingering sense of revulsion.
Apparently food scientists did the research and found out that people liked the imitation chicken nuggets more than real chicken nuggets. I didn't fully believe it at first so I gave it a try, and promptly got hooked on veggie nuggets lol (I only stopped since no one sells it at where I live now)
Personally I do support reducing meat consumption for environmental benefits. I find meat substitutes a bit of a roundabout way to be vegetarian/vegan especially since some other cultures (e.g. a lot of Indian food) have been making delicious vegetarian food for a long time without needing meat substitutes. But I guess meat substitutes did indeed work?? As long as there is a demand for it I don't see an issue. Maybe having to make sure ppl have adequate vitamin B intake (which might be less of an issue for lab-grown meat), but that's pretty much it
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Recently tried an Impossible burger and nuggets and thought that if nobody told me it wasn't meat, I'd have thought the patty was made out of a weird kind of meat, rather than make a connection with the taste and texture of plants. Honestly, I might not complain if that was the only kind of "meat" I could have for the rest of my life.
Well, maybe I'd miss bacon.
I've yet to find the opportunity to try lab-grown meat, but I for sure would like to try it out and don't see much wrong with it as long as it's sustainable, reasonably priced, and doesn't have anything you wouldn't expect in a normal piece of meat.
Also, with imitation and lab-grown options, I'd no longer have to deal with the disgust factor of handling raw meat (esp. the juices) or biting into gristle. I'll happily devour a hot dog, but something about an unexpected bit of cartilage gives me a lingering sense of revulsion.
Hmmm... it's definitely promising, that's for sure. We already use up a lot of food and land for cattle so being able to lessen the amount of resources used in favour of helping poorer humans sounds great. . . The vegan sausage rolls from greggs will always be better than the meat ones imo
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Meat alternatives would solve that issue.
For a price.
Can we all afford lab grown meat? The people making it are all trying to maximize profit by giving the least while charging the most. Keep in mind, that money has to come from somewhere.
As with any new business being built on "ethics," they should be willing to put their money where their mouths are. If they care so much about stopping animal abuse, then they should be charging the lowest price they can tolerate, not the highest price for their customers.
I don't expect most fake-meat companies to do this because they care more about maximizing profit than stopping animal abuse.
Fair enough. No doubt there’s some greed in it as well, but the immature production technology and small scale can easily explain most of the astronomical price. If they ever make it to large scale production, optimize every step along the way, you should be able to see the economies of scale reducing the price. Obviously, we’re nowhere near there just yet.
Also, the technology itself will always set a certain floor to the price nobody can change until you change the underlying production technology. For example, electricity, equipment, labor and materials will always cost something, but an optimized process will need less of each.
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Recently tried an Impossible burger and nuggets and thought that if nobody told me it wasn't meat, I'd have thought the patty was made out of a weird kind of meat, rather than make a connection with the taste and texture of plants. Honestly, I might not complain if that was the only kind of "meat" I could have for the rest of my life.
Well, maybe I'd miss bacon.
I've yet to find the opportunity to try lab-grown meat, but I for sure would like to try it out and don't see much wrong with it as long as it's sustainable, reasonably priced, and doesn't have anything you wouldn't expect in a normal piece of meat.
Also, with imitation and lab-grown options, I'd no longer have to deal with the disgust factor of handling raw meat (esp. the juices) or biting into gristle. I'll happily devour a hot dog, but something about an unexpected bit of cartilage gives me a lingering sense of revulsion.
Lab grown
Imitation
Cause lab grown is actual meat, and I like meat; I’m not vegan or vegetarian, so my only argument against cows is the environmental impact
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Lab grown
ImitationCause lab grown is actual meat, and I like meat; I’m not vegan or vegetarian, so my only argument against cows is the environmental impact
I’m not vegan or vegetarian
It's not that binary. It's not either meat or vegetables and that's it. You can skip meat for like 75% of your meals. You don't have to be a vegetarian to like vegetables.
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Recently tried an Impossible burger and nuggets and thought that if nobody told me it wasn't meat, I'd have thought the patty was made out of a weird kind of meat, rather than make a connection with the taste and texture of plants. Honestly, I might not complain if that was the only kind of "meat" I could have for the rest of my life.
Well, maybe I'd miss bacon.
I've yet to find the opportunity to try lab-grown meat, but I for sure would like to try it out and don't see much wrong with it as long as it's sustainable, reasonably priced, and doesn't have anything you wouldn't expect in a normal piece of meat.
Also, with imitation and lab-grown options, I'd no longer have to deal with the disgust factor of handling raw meat (esp. the juices) or biting into gristle. I'll happily devour a hot dog, but something about an unexpected bit of cartilage gives me a lingering sense of revulsion.
Meat doesn't have to be imitation or lab cultured to be sustainable.
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Recently tried an Impossible burger and nuggets and thought that if nobody told me it wasn't meat, I'd have thought the patty was made out of a weird kind of meat, rather than make a connection with the taste and texture of plants. Honestly, I might not complain if that was the only kind of "meat" I could have for the rest of my life.
Well, maybe I'd miss bacon.
I've yet to find the opportunity to try lab-grown meat, but I for sure would like to try it out and don't see much wrong with it as long as it's sustainable, reasonably priced, and doesn't have anything you wouldn't expect in a normal piece of meat.
Also, with imitation and lab-grown options, I'd no longer have to deal with the disgust factor of handling raw meat (esp. the juices) or biting into gristle. I'll happily devour a hot dog, but something about an unexpected bit of cartilage gives me a lingering sense of revulsion.
Lab meat seems like a great idea for those who know nothing about tissue culture. lab-grown meat production traditionally relies on animal serum, particularly fetal bovine serum (FBS), which is a nutrient-rich liquid extracted from the blood of slaughtered cow fetuses to stimulate cell growth. It's all bullshit.
Some companies are trying to find alternatives, but nothing else is working and all this tech will produce meat only smug Hollywood celebrities can afford.
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Uuh I like this question
I have thought about it because I am vegan and tried figuring out whether I'd be interested in it, and I have no issue to admit that I sometimes crave the taste of meat, while being repulsed by it another time.
After you don't eat meat for a whule you become aware of flavours that you didn't notice before, and there is an undertone of rot. No, it was not off, it was a majority of meats when I followed a flexitarian diet years ago.
So would I eat it? Eh... Likely not? I wouldn't consider it vegan since you'd have to get DNA samples from live animals still to grow the meat, which to me is an unnecessary stress to the animal. But I don't want to dismiss the idea either if it means a rapid decline in livestock and carbon emissions and of course, less animal suffering.Lab grown meat requires fetal animal serum. It's the biggest bullshit scam for animal lovers.
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Recently tried an Impossible burger and nuggets and thought that if nobody told me it wasn't meat, I'd have thought the patty was made out of a weird kind of meat, rather than make a connection with the taste and texture of plants. Honestly, I might not complain if that was the only kind of "meat" I could have for the rest of my life.
Well, maybe I'd miss bacon.
I've yet to find the opportunity to try lab-grown meat, but I for sure would like to try it out and don't see much wrong with it as long as it's sustainable, reasonably priced, and doesn't have anything you wouldn't expect in a normal piece of meat.
Also, with imitation and lab-grown options, I'd no longer have to deal with the disgust factor of handling raw meat (esp. the juices) or biting into gristle. I'll happily devour a hot dog, but something about an unexpected bit of cartilage gives me a lingering sense of revulsion.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I love Impossible meats. Their nuggets taste better than chicken to me. Their burgers taste good, not quite as good as beef, but still very good.
I would eat lab grown meat given the opportunity. I hope we can get to the point where we can stop killing animals and still have delicious meat.
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Lab grown meat requires fetal animal serum. It's the biggest bullshit scam for animal lovers.
I read your other comment on it. What a discouraging fact, but so important to know.
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Recently tried an Impossible burger and nuggets and thought that if nobody told me it wasn't meat, I'd have thought the patty was made out of a weird kind of meat, rather than make a connection with the taste and texture of plants. Honestly, I might not complain if that was the only kind of "meat" I could have for the rest of my life.
Well, maybe I'd miss bacon.
I've yet to find the opportunity to try lab-grown meat, but I for sure would like to try it out and don't see much wrong with it as long as it's sustainable, reasonably priced, and doesn't have anything you wouldn't expect in a normal piece of meat.
Also, with imitation and lab-grown options, I'd no longer have to deal with the disgust factor of handling raw meat (esp. the juices) or biting into gristle. I'll happily devour a hot dog, but something about an unexpected bit of cartilage gives me a lingering sense of revulsion.
That vegan fake meat is one of the most processed foods ever.
Lab grown meat will, for the foreseeable future be hamburger at most. Maybe we'll see lab-grown bacon or steak in the next century.
If I do something vegan, I do real vegan dishes. There is a lot you can do with mushrooms, fruits, and veg without acid regulators, thickeners, emulgators, stabilizers, and artificial aromas and colors.
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Lab meat seems like a great idea for those who know nothing about tissue culture. lab-grown meat production traditionally relies on animal serum, particularly fetal bovine serum (FBS), which is a nutrient-rich liquid extracted from the blood of slaughtered cow fetuses to stimulate cell growth. It's all bullshit.
Some companies are trying to find alternatives, but nothing else is working and all this tech will produce meat only smug Hollywood celebrities can afford.
There are other options and substitutes, known as chemically defined media(CDM), because ultimately FBS is just a chemical slurry that can be replicated via any other ingredients like Gatorade.
The reason FBS is used extensively is because of the long history of it's use and when trying to do something new limiting variables is critical. It's an issue of there needing to be a new standard, but that one XKCD mentality is preventing it.
The two major drawback of FBS is that, ironically, it's a biological product and the composition can vary wildly between batches, and that it's stupidily expensive at ~$1500 USD per liter. You will not be purchasing a lab grown burger made with FBS unless you have thousands of dollars to spend per burger.
However, without oversight, certification programs and forced transparency it can be expected that these companies are going to cut corners, but it's going to be via other low cost animal product additives like gelatin, eggs, chitin etc.
