UK police probe Bob Vylan's festival chants against Israeli military, as US revokes band's visas
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The inhuman madness of finding the problem regarding this situation to be protestors of Israel's genocide, and not the genocide, is as absurd and abhorrent as it is overwhelming.
Let's get outraged about and strive to cancel and imprison someone who used violent language at a force that is mass-murdering children. Just surreal. What leads someone to become this fucking detached from their humanity? It's just incomprehensible.
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America is not only the enabler of Israel, The American government is the one pulling the strings. America is as much a Nazi state as Israel, And when they are done with the Middle East they will find someone else to exterminate. We are all in danger.
Not only US, Germany, France, UK, Italy, and most likely Canada, and Australia. With a genocide you don't get to stay silence, if you are not even condemning the genocide, that mean you are part of the bad guys.
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Look, I agree with their sentiment and want to commend them for using their platform for advocating an end to this genocide. The US should absolutely not be considering it in granting visas.
But, yeah, maybe don't do a chant calling for death to another country's military. Don't make it so easy for them. Make them ban you for simply saying "free Palestine". Don't let them say it's because you made threats of violence. Bring the majority with you, don't push them away.
This kind of reasoning immediately makes me think of MLK's famous quote:
the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action
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I'll get downvoted for this but what im about to say is an undeniable fact.
Chanting death for anyone is inciting violence and murder, UK governments and police can't be allowing that, especially as there is no death penalty.Yes I know, the IDF incite violence and murder, but does that make it OK to do in UK?
It may not be legally ok, but it is definitely morally ok to incite (and perform) violence against a genocidal force.
Crime is only legal if there's a war. Or if you're a cop. Or are rich and influential.
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No, because that's not a direct call to violence.
Let me give you an example:
Someone posts this story:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyvjj9lmq3zo
"Three killed in Ukrainian drone attack on central Russia"
"Three people have been killed and 45 injured following an attack by Ukraine on a factory in the city of Izhevsk - more than 1,000km (620 miles) from the border - Russian authorities say."
User replies "Good."
That's removable. They are applauding the deaths of three human beings.
Alternately, someone posts this story:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-drone-strike-odesa-deaths-injuries-ukraine/
"Russian drone strike on port city kills married couple, injures 17, Ukraine officials say"
"Russian drones struck the southern Ukrainian port city of Odesa overnight, killing two people and injuring at least 17, Ukrainian authorities said on Saturday."
User responds with typical pro-Russia propaganda. Ukraine are Nazis, they started it, yadda yadda.
That's also removable.
In what world is suggesting one army should attack another army not a "call to violence"?
Your rulings are just complete nonsense. There's no consistency. You're just applying it based on your own whims. One of which seems, based on how you're applying it, to be "genocide is ok when it's done to brown people".
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You were warned, this is now a temp ban. Continuing to be an asshole will earn a permanent ban.
Jesus fucking christ you're bad at your job. Tell me, how is
Death to Israeli apartheid
A call to violence? It's pretty explicitly a call to end violence.
How is
Death to the institutions that uphold the Israeli Apartheid
? It's pretty obviously a criticism of an institution, and not a call to violence towards people.
The same is true of
Death to the institutions that uphold the occupation, the disposession and the genocide of Palestinians. Death to the structures that maim the humanity of both the colonizers and the colonized
Stop defending genocide you absolute fucking maniac.
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Jesus fucking christ you're bad at your job. Tell me, how is
Death to Israeli apartheid
A call to violence? It's pretty explicitly a call to end violence.
How is
Death to the institutions that uphold the Israeli Apartheid
? It's pretty obviously a criticism of an institution, and not a call to violence towards people.
The same is true of
Death to the institutions that uphold the occupation, the disposession and the genocide of Palestinians. Death to the structures that maim the humanity of both the colonizers and the colonized
Stop defending genocide you absolute fucking maniac.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Oh, I am not defending genocide. That has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I'm defending the rules of this community, which you're ALSO violating. Rule 6.
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In what world is suggesting one army should attack another army not a "call to violence"?
Your rulings are just complete nonsense. There's no consistency. You're just applying it based on your own whims. One of which seems, based on how you're applying it, to be "genocide is ok when it's done to brown people".
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Again, nothing to do with genocide or anything outside the group. If you come here suggesting people deserve to be killed, you're not going to find receptive moderation.
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Israel has killed at least 100 people waiting for aid since dawn.
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Calling for death of any group is not allowed.
Does this include the Russian military?
What about indirect stuff such as "The Ukrainians should crush the Russian invaders" ?
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Racism is an inherent component of capitalism,
Especially it’s late stage of decline, fascism where those in power obfuscate their culpability by redirecting the ire of the masses towards scapegoated social classesEverything that can be used to manipulate the masses is a tool of Capitalism.
Even anti-Discrimination movements are often made a tool of Capitalism (haven't you noticed all sorts of exploitative large companies going "rainbow"?).
Here however, I don't think the masses are siding with the Genociders. Granted a ton of effort has been put into trying to make the masses do so (more so in some countries than others), but the scale of the depravity of the Genociders is so extreme and undeniable that it isn't working anymore, so it's mainly the power elites who keep supporting Israel.
Mind you, Racism is definitely being leveraged (both Islamophobia and the positive prejudice towards Jewish People which is really just a cultivated variant of pro-White prejudice - "Israel has Western Values") to try and manipulate the masses, but I don't think the drive amongst those in power for pushing the masses that way is a Capitalist one as it's not clear that all that much is gained monetarily from supporting these Genociders.
Racism is a tool to manipulate the masses, but the power elites themselves aren't immune to it and hence are also driven by it at times, Capitalism or no Capitalism.
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Did they say "IDF" or "IDF members/staff"? IDF isn't a person, so maybe it's more of a metaphorical death, as in dismantle the IDF.
I dunno.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I've thought about this, a metaphorical death/end to the IDF chant is completely acceptable. I guess it's all down to intent
the artist chose "death" because it rhymes with IDF. so I wonder if it's just one of those things
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Palestine can also do what they want, they aren't subject to the rules here. The people here will abide by our rules.
I'll make it super simple:
(Lemmy.World Rules (World.Lemmy.World Rules)) . . . (The entire rest of the world, including Palestine, Israel, Russia, Ukraine... everyone)
If you're here, you agree to our ruleset. If you're not here, our rules don't apply to you.
So if someone say death to hanas you will also remove the post right?
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You're bubbled, it's undeniably controversial to chant death to people, especially groups of people. By debating it you agree it's controversial, do you even know what the word means?
Please don't try to say I'm denying Palestinans the right to self defence because I don't want to chant death to their oppressors. My friend, that's a wild statement and you should pipe down
Next you're going to tell me I'm pro Russia because I don't agree Putin should be assassinated
If you think russian soldiers can't be killed in ukraine then yes you would be pro russia
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If you think russian soldiers can't be killed in ukraine then yes you would be pro russia
I never said that, I don't think that. I have no idea why you came up with that.
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I am very interested in this pending response.
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Not sure, but on a side point I reject any "anti semitism" claim because:
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usually its just used to try to silence you
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they're the ones anti semitic because Palestinians and arabs are semitic.
So maybe actually we should re-purpose antisemitism.
TIL.
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This song of theirs is fucking fantastic btw!
Holy shit, that's good.
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What did you want them to say? It’s not an opinion piece.
They should be more neutral in a non-opinion piece. They quote a lot more people saying pro-genocide things than they quote people saying anti-genocide things. They quoted pro-genocide politicians and pro-genocide BBC staff. They did not give the musicians any opportunity to respond to the article.
Israel’s war against Hamas in Gaza has inflamed tensions around the world, triggering pro-Palestinian protests in many capitals and on college campuses. Israel and some supporters have described the protests as antisemitic, while critics say Israel uses such descriptions to silence opponents
Let's consider the two positions mentioned in this paragraph:
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Israel should stop committing genocide
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Israel should continue committing genocide, and position 1 is antisemitic
The first position is described as "pro-Palestinian", as if these protesters support the Palestinian military (Hamas) and want them to win. This is incorrect. These people mostly just want the genocide to end.
The second position is a shitty opinion, but also contains an overt falsehood. It's an objective fact that it's false, and that fact should be reported in the story, but it isn't.
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