why are website language switchers in the current language?
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Which flag do we use for English?
I won't allow the stars and stripes
obviously. -
the last one piss me off so much, especially when they redirect you and you don't have anyway to load the English version...
Even worse when a version is actually different. I had to check the US prices in a store once, it decided "nah mate, your IP's not American, clearly you're a bloody idiot, here's your native version" and even when I manually changed the url to US English, as they did languages based on part of the path, it still decided clearly I must not know what I want. I couldn't even try to infer the price, as the product didn't exist on my version of the site.
And aside from that and language pet peeves, what if you're on Holiday? Or live in an area that speaks a lot of languages close together?
As Cousin Mose said, the language is in the header, the fact that some web devs decide the IP address is clearly a better way to figure out what language you want is insane
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German dialects are still....German language, yes?
They are more different than any of the Englishes are from each other
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The only thing I know about i18n is that it is an annoying shitload of language installer packages for both firefox and libreoffice ^^
That said, however, how you need training for a localization package to provide a language menu(!) - not the translations, mind you - in English, is beyond me. I can't follow the point you seem to be trying to make.
There's no reason to not hardcode (in English) a language selection menu, and then display the list of available site languages (and these should be a country flag with the name of language next to it in what may be the language itself)wrote on last edited by [email protected]I can’t follow the point you seem to be trying to make.
The point is that it's really easy to point at stuff after the fact like it's obvious. Take for example your mention of flags; the World Wide Web Consortium recommends against their use, because countries aren't languages, and so the use of flags to represent them is potentially contentious depending on what market you're selling your product in and which flag you choose. Any screwup you make there would be really easy for some smartass to show up afterwards and say "well obviously you shouldn't use a Taiwan flag to represent Traditional Chinese if you're selling in China, dumbass, you shouldn't need special training to know that... and while we're at it, at least a few of the 8 million Ukrainians who speak Russian probably aren't keen on identifying themselves in their profile with a Russian flag either".
Again, and I feel like I'm repeating myself here, my point isn't that you're incorrect, it's that getting on your high horse about it and calling people dumb is kind of a neckbeard move because every aspect of i18n has the potential to make anyone look dumb.
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They are more different than any of the Englishes are from each other
Can you show me an example of a website outside of a .DE site that offers translation into any of them?
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I can’t follow the point you seem to be trying to make.
The point is that it's really easy to point at stuff after the fact like it's obvious. Take for example your mention of flags; the World Wide Web Consortium recommends against their use, because countries aren't languages, and so the use of flags to represent them is potentially contentious depending on what market you're selling your product in and which flag you choose. Any screwup you make there would be really easy for some smartass to show up afterwards and say "well obviously you shouldn't use a Taiwan flag to represent Traditional Chinese if you're selling in China, dumbass, you shouldn't need special training to know that... and while we're at it, at least a few of the 8 million Ukrainians who speak Russian probably aren't keen on identifying themselves in their profile with a Russian flag either".
Again, and I feel like I'm repeating myself here, my point isn't that you're incorrect, it's that getting on your high horse about it and calling people dumb is kind of a neckbeard move because every aspect of i18n has the potential to make anyone look dumb.
well obviously you shouldn’t use a Taiwan flag to represent Traditional Chinese if you’re selling in China, dumbass, you shouldn’t need special training to know that…
[..]
at least a few of the 8 million Ukrainians who speak Russian probably aren’t keen on identifying themselves in their profile with a Russian flag either”fair enough, that is a good point.
Again, and I feel like I’m repeating myself here, my point isn’t that you’re incorrect, it’s that getting on your high horse about it and calling people dumb
No, I wasn't calling people dumb, I was calling "most web developers" morons, and I stand by that. Most web developers are morons. And the language topic at hand is just one of many symptoms of that. Way more annoying than that is that almost all websites have been fubared with stupid frameworks and interactive sites transmitting each keypress and reloading parts of the page while you are trying to use them / whatever was in your focus before. Interactive websites can be done right, but most of the time they are not, and it's the fault of stupid marketing people and crappy web developers / designers who do NOT refuse to implement shitty marketing ideas.
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I have seen at least one site where they used the English flag. Luckily I have watched the European Cup a few times and could recognize it.
Wow, the actual English flag, not the Union Jack?
I imagine that would trip up quite a few people even though there is a cheeky aspect of technical correctness to it.
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Have different locales for uk and us
And I absolutely would not be able to resist labeling these as:
- English, U
- English, No U
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Wow, the actual English flag, not the Union Jack?
I imagine that would trip up quite a few people even though there is a cheeky aspect of technical correctness to it.
Yes, the actual English flag, not the British flag.
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The only thing I know about i18n is that it is an annoying shitload of language installer packages for both firefox and libreoffice ^^
That said, however, how you need training for a localization package to provide a language menu(!) - not the translations, mind you - in English, is beyond me. I can't follow the point you seem to be trying to make.
There's no reason to not hardcode (in English) a language selection menu, and then display the list of available site languages (and these should be a country flag with the name of language next to it in what may be the language itself)The languages in a language menu should each be written in their own language. So German should be "Deutsch", English should be "English", Japanese should be "日本語", etc.
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They're going to hiss at me aren't they?
That is the least of your worries.
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Byte order in which Unicode encoding? UTF-16LE?
Why would anyone pick UTF-16LE? All the disadvantages of UTF-8, none of the advantages. The only reason to use it is when dealing with legacy systems that used it.
Code point order would be somewhat decent, but even better is to use the user's chosen coallation order from their locale settings if possible.
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well obviously you shouldn’t use a Taiwan flag to represent Traditional Chinese if you’re selling in China, dumbass, you shouldn’t need special training to know that…
[..]
at least a few of the 8 million Ukrainians who speak Russian probably aren’t keen on identifying themselves in their profile with a Russian flag either”fair enough, that is a good point.
Again, and I feel like I’m repeating myself here, my point isn’t that you’re incorrect, it’s that getting on your high horse about it and calling people dumb
No, I wasn't calling people dumb, I was calling "most web developers" morons, and I stand by that. Most web developers are morons. And the language topic at hand is just one of many symptoms of that. Way more annoying than that is that almost all websites have been fubared with stupid frameworks and interactive sites transmitting each keypress and reloading parts of the page while you are trying to use them / whatever was in your focus before. Interactive websites can be done right, but most of the time they are not, and it's the fault of stupid marketing people and crappy web developers / designers who do NOT refuse to implement shitty marketing ideas.
Most web developers are morons in the sense that most people are morons. They're not especially moronic.
A lot of problems on the web aren't coming from the developers. They're management pushing for stuff.
Like, at an old company the UI had really bad mouse tunnels (mouse over menus and sub menus that close if you mouse out). Terrible interface. But someone in management liked it and no one would approve changing it. Easy to look at it and say we're all morons, but most of the stupid there was from leadership.
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Most web developers are morons in the sense that most people are morons. They're not especially moronic.
A lot of problems on the web aren't coming from the developers. They're management pushing for stuff.
Like, at an old company the UI had really bad mouse tunnels (mouse over menus and sub menus that close if you mouse out). Terrible interface. But someone in management liked it and no one would approve changing it. Easy to look at it and say we're all morons, but most of the stupid there was from leadership.
Like, at an old company the UI had really bad mouse tunnels (mouse over menus and sub menus that close if you mouse out). Terrible interface. But someone in management liked it and no one would approve changing it. Easy to look at it and say we’re all morons, but most of the stupid there was from leadership.
If more people had a backbone and spoke out / refused to implement shitty stuff, this wouldn't happen. Also, many design choices are entirely on the web developer. Thus morons. I'm not gonna change my opinion until websites become usable again, you're wasting your time on me.
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The languages in a language menu should each be written in their own language. So German should be "Deutsch", English should be "English", Japanese should be "日本語", etc.
I could live with that, as long as the language menu button itself is labeled in English and not e.g. "Sprache ändern"
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Which flag do we use for English?
I won't allow the stars and stripes
Usually services in English will have English (US) and English (UK). Sorry to all the other English-speaking countries out there, though.
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Like, at an old company the UI had really bad mouse tunnels (mouse over menus and sub menus that close if you mouse out). Terrible interface. But someone in management liked it and no one would approve changing it. Easy to look at it and say we’re all morons, but most of the stupid there was from leadership.
If more people had a backbone and spoke out / refused to implement shitty stuff, this wouldn't happen. Also, many design choices are entirely on the web developer. Thus morons. I'm not gonna change my opinion until websites become usable again, you're wasting your time on me.
If more people had a backbone and spoke out / refused to implement shitty stuff, this wouldn’t happen.
Thus, it's more than just the web developers
. Product needs to have a backbone to stand up to their boss, too. I fought really hard to get rid of the mouse tunnels at that job, but was blocked by product and one of the directors of eng. It was mostly [office] political nonsenseAlso, many design choices are entirely on the web developer.
Not at most of the companies I've worked out. There's a design person or team. Eng can give feedback, but it's pretty rare for them to be given a blank check.
I’m not gonna change my opinion until websites become usable again, you’re wasting your time on me.
That's fine. Some web developers are morons, but some of everyone are morons. We can partially agree.
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I'm not saying it's a good idea, i just see it a lot. Maybe I'm only paying attention to this in Europe, where it's a bit more clear-cut, rather than tracking down population data to select a template option on a website for something like a cafe menu.
And I'm not saying it never happens, a lot of bad ideas are happening all the time.
But if you think anything regarding flags, languages and countries is clear cut in Europe, it's mainly because you aren't paying attention. -
If more people had a backbone and spoke out / refused to implement shitty stuff, this wouldn’t happen.
Thus, it's more than just the web developers
. Product needs to have a backbone to stand up to their boss, too. I fought really hard to get rid of the mouse tunnels at that job, but was blocked by product and one of the directors of eng. It was mostly [office] political nonsenseAlso, many design choices are entirely on the web developer.
Not at most of the companies I've worked out. There's a design person or team. Eng can give feedback, but it's pretty rare for them to be given a blank check.
I’m not gonna change my opinion until websites become usable again, you’re wasting your time on me.
That's fine. Some web developers are morons, but some of everyone are morons. We can partially agree.
That’s fine. Some web developers are morons, but some of everyone are morons. We can partially agree.
Partially agreed
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If people really insist then at least have a flag emoji
Unicode consortium stopped accepting new flags. Far, far from all current languages are in there. Don't expect there to be an emoji for every language, and fewer and fewer as the current version ages and flags change
And that's regardless of that flags are often a poor language selector (south african flag can mean a lot of things), but if you insist then SVGs of what regions you want to support might be a good replacement
