So proud!
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Neurodivergents be like:
"Wait people don't want to know this? That's absurd. So anyway, what I was saying was..."How many "Men" are just ND?
How many women are? They have been notoriously under diagnosed, so what? We still have to live and adapt to this world, regardless.
I got my autism diagnoses at 39 years of age. Not that it does any good besides validating many of my lived experiences.
Consider how many women are ND and have been forced fed the notion that we must sit down, shut up, focus, stay on task, do our duties, be strong women, never rock the boat, never be weird, keep a clean home, raise our children right, get paired with the ND boys in class who do actually get diagnosed so as to keep them on task, understand that boys will be boys ad nauseum.
If I could adapt without any sympathy others can, too, man or woman. Communication is practiced. It must be nurtured from a young age regardless of any roadblocks you're born with or born to.
What I noticed was that most of my best friends were diagnosed. We clicked not only because we were similar but also because my teachers paired me with them and it brought us closer for it. Meanwhile, I struggled in school myself. I also had to hold the hands of my friends and be their keepers. It makes me upset that they had extra help while more responsibility was foisted on me when I needed help myself and never got it.
How am I a bartender who can absolutely relate to what she is saying and how he responded while still, also, being ND myself? Is it any wonder I never went into secondary schooling with the experience I had from grade school to highschool?
One of my patrons is so much further on the spectrum than I and I would never condescend to her while she is speaking about anything. I'm truly happy to hear about anything she has to talk about.
But if someone, man or woman, comes into my establishment and spoke to me in the same vein he is, I'd respond the same way she did because that response is something I learned to adapt to my surroundings regardless of a diagnosis.
He fell right into a trap she set and he did it all by himself by typing it out and hitting send. If he's eloquent enough to respond the way he did, he's deserving of the answer he got. There is no excuse here that would make me forgive his response.
If you're going to use your diagnosis as a crutch, be off with you. You can disagree, but not anywhere in this little text post is there any indication that he even is NB in the first place.
What she was saying is something that women struggle with NB or not. Men also have their own struggles. Both are valid and there's no reason to be defensive about her response unless you're guilty of doing it yourself. But then you're just projecting.
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It's by definition sexist.
prejudice or discrimination based on sex
And around someone is mansplaining is always sexist though I do legit wonder when your not racist hard R's come into play.
prejudice or discrimination based on sex
Is it prejudicial or discriminatory based on sex? Then it's sexist, you may think it's moral and that's an argument I guess you could make but there is no question it's a sexist term in the same way femsplaining would be and btw they both sound extremely dumb.
wrote last edited by [email protected]We can dress it up however you like. Your claim is now: Any woman who believes a man is being misogynistic towards her is actually herself being prejudiced or discriminatory towards him.
Still a pretty whacky opinion, but if you like that better, who am I to stop you.
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Eh. As much as I want that to be true, there are some people who will never admit they don't know something.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Good idea. Keep educating people just in case they need your opinion and don't know it.
/s
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As a man with adhd, I do this all the time to men and to women, and I've been accused of mansplaining. I'm working on it, but I promise it has nothing to do with sexism. I just think everybody needs to know all the details so rhey can reach the same conclusions as me.
And for what it's worth, I really appreciate when someone does the same for me on a topic I don't know about. But I understand how frustrating it is when someone does it on a subject I do know about, so I always try to gauge knowledge before info dumping. What catches me off guard is when someone isn't interested in learning. They don't know everything, and they are just OK with walking through life, knowing they don't know something.
Point is, I really do appreciate the grace presented in the post. I don't mind if you're being condescending if you forgive me for oversharing.
I will happily let someone go on about something that excites them because I get it. I feel like there are at least two different points being made here and each camp will not listen to the other.
I will hide out in my studio sometimes to get peace from my boyfriend. It's not that I don't love him. I adore him!! He's treated me better than any other man I've been with.
But we don't have conversations. It's a long standing issue with us that we are always working on. I listen to his monologues. Even if he has good intentions and asks about my day, most times I can't get even halfway through something I need to share off my chest before it distracts him and I'm listening to him for 3 hours. Sometimes he'll even ask, "you know what I mean?" "You get where I'm coming from?" And I'll take a breathe to speak aaaaand shut my mouth on it because he doesn't wait for a response.
It can be overwhelming but we talk about it respectfully in the end. I lie, sometimes I get overwhelmed and exasperated. Then he will knock or text me to talk things out. Sometimes he gets upset when I need alone time and then I go to him and we talk. We ultimately apologize to each other. He's an amazing man and he calls me his goddess. We put up with each other's bullshit because we are both imperfect and still come back together in the end and absolutely adore each other.
The difference in this particular post though, is my spouse wouldn't respond the way this dude did. Then again, I don't hinge my entire opinion on what woman on the internet says and what another man responds to it with. The warp and weft of gender, sexism, and neurodivergence, cannot be wrapped into one neat package of absolutes.
Everyone has their opinions but they can also all be at least a little right.
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Women: "Don't be condescending"
Lemmites: "What the fuck"
"Okay that's wrong, and here's why..."
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This isn't a you problem. You haven't been mansplaining. This is gender war shenanigans and people being sexist towards men in the name of feminism. Gender in western society is honestly cooked at this point.
Maaaan. Why'd you have to go and do that? I was nodding my head at your words until you clarified it's the woman folks fault.
You immediately made yourself a part of the gender war shenanigans with everything you said right after.
Men do shitty things. Women do shitty things. That's it. There are always exceptions to the rule, there are always stereotypes that too many don't fall into. The bad apple stick out because they upset you and the memory sticks. We all come across asshole every day.
I want to give you a hug honestly. And that's not being sarcastic or condescending. I just got off work and as much as I want to say what I want to say to this type of talk, I don't. It does no good.
Having a good talk, sharing a drink or a smoke together and hugging/fist bumping/offering my jukebox credits is way better than man hating just because I deal with assholes all day. So I'm offering my last hug of the day to you because I'm sure you don't truly believe the woman here was speaking against you specifically or even every man she's ever encountered.
Men aren't the devil incarnate. Neither are women, though.
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IDK, I often find myself mansplain and not infodump. I am not from the boomers, I'm not sexist in any rational way, I'm pretty left leaning, I am though a piece of shit sometimes.
I think that's how most people are. They don't identify as sexist, but they do sexist things because of conditioning. No one ever thinks they're a bad person, best we can do is try to be aware of our bullshit and keep learning.
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Mansplainer perspective here. No, it doesn't come (for me) from a belief that a woman can't do anything, it rather comes from an instruction from a childhood that boys should always help and defend girls. If I were in place of that boss, my unconscious intent would be to lower the woman's burden.
I catch myself doing it and stop it but it's the hardest pattern I have ever corrected insofar.
I really appreciate this perspective and it really does shine light on how one is raised based on their gender. I can think of a multitude of examples from your perspective and also from who you are responding to.
I'm absolutely positive that, regardless of how hard I tried not to, I did raise my son and daughter differently. All I hope is that I did a little better than my parents did for me and my brothers and, should they have kids themselves, my children do a little better than I did, and so on and so forth.
Today is not that day but maybe when I'm dust, society will slowly limp along and evolve. Conversations like this may seem divisive now but I think they're needed in the grand scheme of things.
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The system can be racist and the person not racist you should read your own source or I dunno like any source about systemic racism.
Cool so those questions, are you going to answer them or are we playing dodge ball for some reason.
The point I was making was that a person can be a participant in the racism, while their personal intentions are not. Their personal intentions do not mean that what they are participating isn't racist, and that is what the paper says, and what you said it said.
Why must you know from random people online, rather than experts? Is it because you can argue against people who are not experts, while not so much with people bringing the data? Are you just lazy? Is that it? You can't be fucked to read anything that isn't as small, and surface level, as a forum comment section? Why require me, someone who does not have professional expertise in a subject, to be the person who gives you answers on that subject, rather than the people who have that? There is no better way to get answers than from the people who spend their lives specifically working to understand it, why be so adamant laymen answer you? What is it that makes you desire some rando answer these questions for you when the experts' publications on the subject are right there?
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Okay but what if I’m excited to talk about dinosaurs? Is it mansplaining because I didn’t know the lady im talking to is a paleontologist ?
And people wonder why many men are afraid to talk to women.
These are just dumb people, doesnt matter man or woman, we have them on both sides
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As a man with adhd, I do this all the time to men and to women, and I've been accused of mansplaining. I'm working on it, but I promise it has nothing to do with sexism. I just think everybody needs to know all the details so rhey can reach the same conclusions as me.
And for what it's worth, I really appreciate when someone does the same for me on a topic I don't know about. But I understand how frustrating it is when someone does it on a subject I do know about, so I always try to gauge knowledge before info dumping. What catches me off guard is when someone isn't interested in learning. They don't know everything, and they are just OK with walking through life, knowing they don't know something.
Point is, I really do appreciate the grace presented in the post. I don't mind if you're being condescending if you forgive me for oversharing.
wrote last edited by [email protected]If the reason you are giving information to a woman is not that you are assuming their ignorance based on the fact that they're a woman, you're not mansplaining. Period.
The sexist assumption is a core 'component' of the phenomenon.
Also, said assumption can be sex-related, but also all sorts of other things. That's why I've adopted the term "splaining" as an umbrella term for it. "Mansplaining" unfairly creates the misandric perception that only men do it, and that the only motivating assumption is 'because she's female'. Both are inaccurate. I myself have experienced this based on several different assumptions throughout my life, based on my sex, age, even where I live.
Is it 'splaining' to assume you know more than someone else on subject X because they're younger? Yes.
Because they're white? Yes.
Because they just started in an industry you've been working in for 10 years? No.And so on.
I really hope this term catches on at some point, lol.
P.S. Also, an assumption as described above is literally mandatory for it to count. If I'm explaining something to you after you've overtly demonstrated your ignorance on that subject, or I'm correcting a demonstrably false statement, that's not any kind of 'splaining', regardless of what either person's sex/race/age/etc. is.
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We can dress it up however you like. Your claim is now: Any woman who believes a man is being misogynistic towards her is actually herself being prejudiced or discriminatory towards him.
Still a pretty whacky opinion, but if you like that better, who am I to stop you.
No. You're adding random shit that I never said and still avoiding two simple questions.
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It would be cool if we could keep sexism off lemmy. This isn't reddit.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Mansplaining ord is sexism itself. Agree with you we should discourage such things
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The point I was making was that a person can be a participant in the racism, while their personal intentions are not. Their personal intentions do not mean that what they are participating isn't racist, and that is what the paper says, and what you said it said.
Why must you know from random people online, rather than experts? Is it because you can argue against people who are not experts, while not so much with people bringing the data? Are you just lazy? Is that it? You can't be fucked to read anything that isn't as small, and surface level, as a forum comment section? Why require me, someone who does not have professional expertise in a subject, to be the person who gives you answers on that subject, rather than the people who have that? There is no better way to get answers than from the people who spend their lives specifically working to understand it, why be so adamant laymen answer you? What is it that makes you desire some rando answer these questions for you when the experts' publications on the subject are right there?
wrote last edited by [email protected]Sure and you're still a racist if you drop hard r's based on your perception of someone, it's a fun and easy easy to tell who's a racist and who simply exists in a racist system.
Experts agree it's specifically a perjorative sexist term, this weird definition that says it's in some crazy way not sexist only seems to exist on the Internet likely because it's very difficult to argue in earnest that the obviously sexist thing you just said isn't sexist.
Even the sources provided call it pejorative which I dunno if you know means it's specifically a slur.
Why require me, someone who does not have professional expertise in a subject, to be the person who gives you answers on that subject, rather than the people who have that?
No one said you specifically, you fucking volunteered so drop the crybaby victim bullshit and answer either of the two questions both of you keep dodging.
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So many likes under this toxic shit post, though comments section is full of people with valid conclusions
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Sure and you're still a racist if you drop hard r's based on your perception of someone, it's a fun and easy easy to tell who's a racist and who simply exists in a racist system.
Experts agree it's specifically a perjorative sexist term, this weird definition that says it's in some crazy way not sexist only seems to exist on the Internet likely because it's very difficult to argue in earnest that the obviously sexist thing you just said isn't sexist.
Even the sources provided call it pejorative which I dunno if you know means it's specifically a slur.
Why require me, someone who does not have professional expertise in a subject, to be the person who gives you answers on that subject, rather than the people who have that?
No one said you specifically, you fucking volunteered so drop the crybaby victim bullshit and answer either of the two questions both of you keep dodging.
Pejorative means it shows disapproval, if I say a term that means anything negative about something, or someone it is a pejorative. If someone throw a fit about something, and I call them childish, that is a pejorative, it is not being used as a slur, it means I disapprove of your choice of action. If that person is a man and I call them a man-baby, that is not me being sexist, it means you are a man, who is acting like a baby. Saying something that means I disapprove of your behavior is absolutely not the same as saying something that means I disapprove of how someone was born. That is the difference between the term mansplaining, and the n word. One is a judgement of actions, one is a judgment of inherent qualities.
I am not saying you are victimizing me by doing this, that is a stupid conclusion to come to. I am asking why you are insisting on asking random people online for answers, when the expert opinions on the subject are right there for you? Why must you get this from people online when you can get high quality answers with a search. If you think asking you why you insist on getting answers from non-experts, when the expert answers are at your finger tips, is being a crybaby (a pejorative BTW, so did you just call me a slur?), or calling myself a victim, I guess that makes you the same for insisting others answer your questions. I refer to myself because, when I pointed you towards the better source for answers, you insisted on an answer from me instead.
Why do you want random people online to give you answers when much higher quality information is available with little extra work?
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For what it's worth, although it seems like a tangent, I do think that's what was originally meant in the comment that started this chain and I was trying to help. I agree that people are using it with its intended meaning (but could be making an error in judgement).
Yeah, I don't see why that's such a difficult concept to grasp. I suppose maybe they believe their interpretation of scenarios is always the objectively correct one and also incredibly obvious so anyone with a different interpretation is wrong? Unsurprisingly, that's a pretty condescending way to view the world. They seemed to want to twist my words to make what I was saying into something about "snap judgements".
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I really appreciate this perspective and it really does shine light on how one is raised based on their gender. I can think of a multitude of examples from your perspective and also from who you are responding to.
I'm absolutely positive that, regardless of how hard I tried not to, I did raise my son and daughter differently. All I hope is that I did a little better than my parents did for me and my brothers and, should they have kids themselves, my children do a little better than I did, and so on and so forth.
Today is not that day but maybe when I'm dust, society will slowly limp along and evolve. Conversations like this may seem divisive now but I think they're needed in the grand scheme of things.
Some humans in the future might wake up in a better world because of people like you. Keep it up!
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I think that's how most people are. They don't identify as sexist, but they do sexist things because of conditioning. No one ever thinks they're a bad person, best we can do is try to be aware of our bullshit and keep learning.
No one ever thinks they're a bad person
Well, there are people who do identify as sexists. Hell, the latest Jubilee episode shows that there are people identifying as fascists. All I wanted to say is that I do not believe that men and women have fundamentally different capabilities.
Nevertheless, I do sexist things and it's disgusting and I have little to no control over it. Hopefully I will grow to control it
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How many women are? They have been notoriously under diagnosed, so what? We still have to live and adapt to this world, regardless.
I got my autism diagnoses at 39 years of age. Not that it does any good besides validating many of my lived experiences.
Consider how many women are ND and have been forced fed the notion that we must sit down, shut up, focus, stay on task, do our duties, be strong women, never rock the boat, never be weird, keep a clean home, raise our children right, get paired with the ND boys in class who do actually get diagnosed so as to keep them on task, understand that boys will be boys ad nauseum.
If I could adapt without any sympathy others can, too, man or woman. Communication is practiced. It must be nurtured from a young age regardless of any roadblocks you're born with or born to.
What I noticed was that most of my best friends were diagnosed. We clicked not only because we were similar but also because my teachers paired me with them and it brought us closer for it. Meanwhile, I struggled in school myself. I also had to hold the hands of my friends and be their keepers. It makes me upset that they had extra help while more responsibility was foisted on me when I needed help myself and never got it.
How am I a bartender who can absolutely relate to what she is saying and how he responded while still, also, being ND myself? Is it any wonder I never went into secondary schooling with the experience I had from grade school to highschool?
One of my patrons is so much further on the spectrum than I and I would never condescend to her while she is speaking about anything. I'm truly happy to hear about anything she has to talk about.
But if someone, man or woman, comes into my establishment and spoke to me in the same vein he is, I'd respond the same way she did because that response is something I learned to adapt to my surroundings regardless of a diagnosis.
He fell right into a trap she set and he did it all by himself by typing it out and hitting send. If he's eloquent enough to respond the way he did, he's deserving of the answer he got. There is no excuse here that would make me forgive his response.
If you're going to use your diagnosis as a crutch, be off with you. You can disagree, but not anywhere in this little text post is there any indication that he even is NB in the first place.
What she was saying is something that women struggle with NB or not. Men also have their own struggles. Both are valid and there's no reason to be defensive about her response unless you're guilty of doing it yourself. But then you're just projecting.
Uhhhh, this post was about mansplaining....
