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  3. FCC chair says we’re too dependent on GPS and wants to explore ‘alternatives’.

FCC chair says we’re too dependent on GPS and wants to explore ‘alternatives’.

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  • tea@programming.devT [email protected]
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    wrote on last edited by
    #34

    What if we built a system of beacon transmitters that sent out pulses and then used recievers that would compare arrival times of those pulses to make a measurement, thus establishing positional location?

    We could call it the Long Range something or other. Need a catchy name!

    L 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • halcyoncmdr@lemmy.worldH [email protected]

      And was the second time that window had the ball bearing thrown at it. They'd tested it backstage but didn't replace that window for the on stage demo, so it was already weakened.

      saik0shinigami@lemmy.saik0.comS This user is from outside of this forum
      saik0shinigami@lemmy.saik0.comS This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote on last edited by
      #35

      Yeah I'm gunna be frank on this one... it's GOOD that it broke. If you're in a car fire (which these seem to do often), you want to be able to break out a fucking window to get out.

      Any civilian that wants a window that strong is too stupid to properly risk evaluate the features of a car.

      T 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • saltysalamander@fedia.ioS [email protected]

        GPS literally triangulates your position using 3 satellites. It's how it works.

        saik0shinigami@lemmy.saik0.comS This user is from outside of this forum
        saik0shinigami@lemmy.saik0.comS This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote on last edited by
        #36

        No, you need 4 minimum.

        Two satellites intersection places you on a circle. (all points possible)

        Three satellites intersection places you on two possible points.

        The last satellite give you the exact location.

        However, often the 4th is omitted if one of the 2 points is not in a sane location. (eg well below the crust). And it's trilateration not triangulation.

        ulrich@feddit.orgU saltysalamander@fedia.ioS 2 Replies Last reply
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        • X [email protected]

          GPS is incredibly fragile.

          No, not really. The GPS signal isn't designed to penetrate concrete, no. But that doesn't make it fragile.

          Also very terrestrial…it doesn’t work once you leave the atmosphere.

          Considering it was never meant to...that's really not that goddamn weird. It's a global positioning satellite system. So clearly for it to work you have to be on the fuckin' globe...

          D This user is from outside of this forum
          D This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote on last edited by
          #37

          Global Positioning System, I sleep
          Universal Positioning System, real shit

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • timesquirrel@kbin.melroy.orgT [email protected]

            Too often, the vertical location (Z-axis) information that 911 call centers receive is not easily usable

            So...use the barometer in tandem with GPS? This is shit I can easily track from my personal Homassistant server.

            Also, you know how to make GPS more reliable, secure, and redundant? You launch more GPS satellites.

            T This user is from outside of this forum
            T This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote on last edited by
            #38

            Also, you know how to make GPS more reliable, secure, and redundant? You launch more GPS satellites.

            But where will we find room for more Starlink satellites if we do that? Elon said he needs another contract, and when the boss says jump...!

            /s

            R 0 2 Replies Last reply
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            • saik0shinigami@lemmy.saik0.comS [email protected]

              No, you need 4 minimum.

              Two satellites intersection places you on a circle. (all points possible)

              Three satellites intersection places you on two possible points.

              The last satellite give you the exact location.

              However, often the 4th is omitted if one of the 2 points is not in a sane location. (eg well below the crust). And it's trilateration not triangulation.

              ulrich@feddit.orgU This user is from outside of this forum
              ulrich@feddit.orgU This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote on last edited by
              #39

              Uhhh nope, that's incorrect.

              The way triangulation works is by essentially measuring distance.

              So 1 satellite distance puts you anywhere in a radius (circle) of that satellite.

              2 Satellites puts you at 1 of 2 locations where those radiuses intersect.

              3 satellites gives you a single location.

              That's why it's called triangulation. Tri = 3

              N 1 Reply Last reply
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              • J [email protected]

                Having functional GPS in a tunnel would be very nice...as someone who drives through Boston and fucking hates tunnels.

                But that's not what I meant by fragile. I meant it can be disrupted/jammed fairly trivially.

                X This user is from outside of this forum
                X This user is from outside of this forum
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                wrote on last edited by
                #40

                Having functional GPS in a tunnel would be very nice

                In a tunnel

                a tunnel

                tunnel

                I fear for the world. You afraid that you're gonna make a wrong turn? Inside of a tunnel? A fuckin' tunnel my guy?

                wjs018@piefed.socialW 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • X [email protected]

                  Having functional GPS in a tunnel would be very nice

                  In a tunnel

                  a tunnel

                  tunnel

                  I fear for the world. You afraid that you're gonna make a wrong turn? Inside of a tunnel? A fuckin' tunnel my guy?

                  wjs018@piefed.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                  wjs018@piefed.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #41

                  You have clearly never driven on 93 through Boston where the person you replied to said they are from (aka the Big Dig). It is basically an entire highway that is underneath the city. There are many on and off ramps, lanes suddenly become exit only, complex multi-lane exits that branch...it's intimidating. As somebody that has lived in the Boston area for 15 years now, I still mess things up.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • ulrich@feddit.orgU [email protected]

                    Uhhh nope, that's incorrect.

                    The way triangulation works is by essentially measuring distance.

                    So 1 satellite distance puts you anywhere in a radius (circle) of that satellite.

                    2 Satellites puts you at 1 of 2 locations where those radiuses intersect.

                    3 satellites gives you a single location.

                    That's why it's called triangulation. Tri = 3

                    N This user is from outside of this forum
                    N This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #42

                    Oh boy, where do I even start? This comment is wrong in multiple ways. Let's break it down:

                    1. "The way triangulation works is by essentially measuring distance."

                      • Nope. This describes trilateration, not triangulation.
                      • Triangulation uses angles, while trilateration uses distances. GPS works via trilateration.
                    2. "1 satellite distance puts you anywhere in a radius (circle) of that satellite."

                      • Kind of, but missing a crucial detail:
                        • A single satellite defines a sphere around itself (not just a circle—you exist in 3D space).
                    3. "2 Satellites puts you at 1 of 2 locations where those radiuses intersect."

                      • Wrong. Two satellite distance spheres intersect to form a circle, not just two points.
                    4. "3 satellites gives you a single location."

                      • Mostly right, but incomplete.
                      • In theory, three satellites narrow it down to two possible points, but one is often out in space or somewhere unrealistic, so it can often be ruled out.
                      • However, because your device lacks an atomic clock, it typically requires four satellites to synchronize time properly.
                    5. "That's why it's called triangulation. Tri = 3"

                      • Nope. GPS does NOT use triangulation.
                      • The "tri" in triangulation comes from angles, not the number of satellites. GPS uses trilateration, which is based on measuring distances, not angles.

                    Final Verdict

                    This comment is a trainwreck of incorrect terms and flawed explanations. If they meant "trilateration," at least part of it would make sense, but calling it "triangulation" completely ruins their credibility.

                    So, in short? No, their comment is very incorrect. 🚨

                    ulrich@feddit.orgU 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • N [email protected]

                      Oh boy, where do I even start? This comment is wrong in multiple ways. Let's break it down:

                      1. "The way triangulation works is by essentially measuring distance."

                        • Nope. This describes trilateration, not triangulation.
                        • Triangulation uses angles, while trilateration uses distances. GPS works via trilateration.
                      2. "1 satellite distance puts you anywhere in a radius (circle) of that satellite."

                        • Kind of, but missing a crucial detail:
                          • A single satellite defines a sphere around itself (not just a circle—you exist in 3D space).
                      3. "2 Satellites puts you at 1 of 2 locations where those radiuses intersect."

                        • Wrong. Two satellite distance spheres intersect to form a circle, not just two points.
                      4. "3 satellites gives you a single location."

                        • Mostly right, but incomplete.
                        • In theory, three satellites narrow it down to two possible points, but one is often out in space or somewhere unrealistic, so it can often be ruled out.
                        • However, because your device lacks an atomic clock, it typically requires four satellites to synchronize time properly.
                      5. "That's why it's called triangulation. Tri = 3"

                        • Nope. GPS does NOT use triangulation.
                        • The "tri" in triangulation comes from angles, not the number of satellites. GPS uses trilateration, which is based on measuring distances, not angles.

                      Final Verdict

                      This comment is a trainwreck of incorrect terms and flawed explanations. If they meant "trilateration," at least part of it would make sense, but calling it "triangulation" completely ruins their credibility.

                      So, in short? No, their comment is very incorrect. 🚨

                      ulrich@feddit.orgU This user is from outside of this forum
                      ulrich@feddit.orgU This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #43

                      A single satellite defines a sphere around itself (not just a circle—you exist in 3D space).

                      You are not getting a 3 dimensional location. That's why GPS coordinates only exist on 2 planes. You don't know what you're talking about.

                      saik0shinigami@lemmy.saik0.comS 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • ulrich@feddit.orgU [email protected]

                        A single satellite defines a sphere around itself (not just a circle—you exist in 3D space).

                        You are not getting a 3 dimensional location. That's why GPS coordinates only exist on 2 planes. You don't know what you're talking about.

                        saik0shinigami@lemmy.saik0.comS This user is from outside of this forum
                        saik0shinigami@lemmy.saik0.comS This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #44

                        You are not getting a 3 dimensional location. That’s why GPS coordinates only exist on 2 planes. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

                        Coordinates on a circle is a 3 dimensional location. The earth isn't flat.

                        ulrich@feddit.orgU 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • ? Guest

                          What if we built a system of beacon transmitters that sent out pulses and then used recievers that would compare arrival times of those pulses to make a measurement, thus establishing positional location?

                          We could call it the Long Range something or other. Need a catchy name!

                          L This user is from outside of this forum
                          L This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #45

                          You are so close to VOR!

                          S M 2 Replies Last reply
                          0
                          • L [email protected]

                            You are so close to VOR!

                            S This user is from outside of this forum
                            S This user is from outside of this forum
                            [email protected]
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #46

                            They’re describing LORAN.

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • X [email protected]

                              GPS is incredibly fragile.

                              No, not really. The GPS signal isn't designed to penetrate concrete, no. But that doesn't make it fragile.

                              Also very terrestrial…it doesn’t work once you leave the atmosphere.

                              Considering it was never meant to...that's really not that goddamn weird. It's a global positioning satellite system. So clearly for it to work you have to be on the fuckin' globe...

                              A This user is from outside of this forum
                              A This user is from outside of this forum
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                              wrote on last edited by
                              #47

                              There was an article today about how they just used GPS on the moon.

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                              • saik0shinigami@lemmy.saik0.comS [email protected]

                                You are not getting a 3 dimensional location. That’s why GPS coordinates only exist on 2 planes. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

                                Coordinates on a circle is a 3 dimensional location. The earth isn't flat.

                                ulrich@feddit.orgU This user is from outside of this forum
                                ulrich@feddit.orgU This user is from outside of this forum
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                                wrote on last edited by
                                #48

                                The earth isn't flat.

                                So which coordinate accounts for elevation? Latitude or Longitude?

                                saik0shinigami@lemmy.saik0.comS 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • M [email protected]

                                  Wonder if they want to track all phones with a different system.

                                  D This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #49

                                  Don't need GPS to track phones. You triangulate the receivers.

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                                  • tea@programming.devT [email protected]
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                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #50

                                    Whatever happened to radio ranging?

                                    That shit was super coolio.

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                                    • zonetrooper@lemmy.worldZ [email protected]

                                      It's not as dumb as you make it out. The issue isn't that GPS is really, really good at what it does; it's that it's also incredibly vulnerable to disruption and spoofing. And due to the particulars of how GPS works, we can't entirely fix that. We can do some things to ameliorate it, but a lot of those aren't suitable for smaller things that use GPS today.

                                      The other thing is that GPS largely replaced a tremendous number of other navigation aides and techniques, including other radio-navigation systems like LORAN-C.

                                      T This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #51

                                      It's also just a generally bad idea to be too dependent on a single system. If GPS reception fails for one reason or another, it would be good idea to have a backup.

                                      R 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • saik0shinigami@lemmy.saik0.comS [email protected]

                                        Yeah I'm gunna be frank on this one... it's GOOD that it broke. If you're in a car fire (which these seem to do often), you want to be able to break out a fucking window to get out.

                                        Any civilian that wants a window that strong is too stupid to properly risk evaluate the features of a car.

                                        T This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #52

                                        Its like the video showing firefighters struggling a lot to break the window of the Tesla pickup. That's not a prasieworthy thing. You want the windows to break easily enough you can get out in an emergency, or someone can break in to get you out.

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                                        • J [email protected]

                                          GPS depends on a friendly spectrum. I suspect the FCC is preparing for a war where GPS will be jammed, faked, or destroyed.

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                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #53

                                          That would be wise.

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