New Refrigerators, Washing Machines, Furniture and Tires Will All Have to Last Longer, Europe Mandates
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Do like Dubai (for this instance) and demand better LED bulbs too.
Dude I love Big Clive.
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Why can't you have both?
Create the best value for customers, but you have to adhere to these regulations.Seems like a perfectly reasonable position to me.
Regulatory capture. It already exists in the housing market, medical equipment, medical drugs, etc.
There, things are more expensive than necessary.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture
The shift in responsibility to the EU is not free. Of course, it costs some taxes to run the institutions that enforce the regulations. But who is supervising those institutions? That would be up to the citizens, instead of comparing products directly.
Are citizens going to do that? Have citizens checked the sourcing of the covid vaccines?
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I think about the lightbulb cartel all the time. How has no one managed to recreate those super long lasting bulbs in all this time?
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Well you either have a plan to help people or the plan automatically devolves to “extract as much rent as possible from the people”.
Yes, and that's why competition is needed so that the 'as much rent as possible' is minimized. I am not arguing against a helpful society. We don't exchange goods for compassion but for money so we need competition.
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Yes, and that's why competition is needed so that the 'as much rent as possible' is minimized. I am not arguing against a helpful society. We don't exchange goods for compassion but for money so we need competition.
We don't exchange goods for compassion
We actually do that all the time. Altruism takes many forms. Or if you wanna be a nerd you can call it Mutual Aid.
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but better value should come from customer choices, not from regulations.
You mean lower value should come from misleading advertisement, incomplete information, irrational behaviour of actors, and other forms of market failure. Because that is how it works out in the real world.
Also, quoth the constitution (or well what passes as one for the EU), Article 3(3) TEU:
The Union shall establish an internal market. It shall work for the sustainable development of Europe based on balanced economic growth and price stability, a highly competitive social market economy, aiming at full employment and social progress, and a high level of protection and improvement of the quality of the environment. It shall promote scientific and technological advance.
Get out of here with Ayn Rand's fever dreams.
the EU should create infrastructure that allows consumers to compare products objectively
forms of market failure. Because that is how it works out in the real world
I think that it is better to improve the markets and minimize the market failures instead of trying to regulate everything.
Everything has to be checked by institutions if consumers are kept ignorant whereas competent consumers do that work for free.
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Electronics in general should last longer, just like back in the day.
Plenty of short-lived stuff back then, too. Survivorship bias means that all the stuff that happened to survive to today is not necessarily representative of the typical thing that was manufactured back then.
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When buying future appliances, I have to be sure to get them from the EU. Standards in the US are going to be below the floor.
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the EU should create infrastructure that allows consumers to compare products objectively
forms of market failure. Because that is how it works out in the real world
I think that it is better to improve the markets and minimize the market failures instead of trying to regulate everything.
Everything has to be checked by institutions if consumers are kept ignorant whereas competent consumers do that work for free.
Improving markets means regulation. Rating systems as you propose them are easily influenced and gamed by companies and subject to the same information and irrationality problems that individual consumer behaviour are.
Lastly, don't think that such EU regulations aren't initiated by and pushed for by consumer advocate groups. The commission is not in the habit of going around, saying "where is a market segment that isn't regulated and what pointless shit can we accost them with". If things work fine they just plainly let things be.
Thing is: There's always going to be chuds saying "REEEE I want a more powerful vacuum" and go with the one with the higher wattage number on the box, no matter what comparison portals say about actual performance. Those portals are nothing new, they have existed for a long time. Yet companies did get into a wattage war, and to write a bigger number on the box so that people would buy it you need to use a bigger motor and use more energy. Problem being: Noone is helped by vacuums which stick to the floor, so you also have to leak, and be loud. All that extra power, good for nothing.
There's exactly one way out of such a market failure: Regulation. "vacuums may not use more than X watt per Y of sucking power".
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We don't exchange goods for compassion
We actually do that all the time. Altruism takes many forms. Or if you wanna be a nerd you can call it Mutual Aid.
I wouldn't mind switching to a society that is built on altruism. My point is that the EU is not an inherent benevolent government. These regulations will be abused and I believe that there would be less abuse if we spent the resources on infrastructure that allows the consumers to make better decisions.
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Exactly this. I recently had my clothes washer break. Spent days researching the problem, taking the thing apart, figuring out the cause was the spindle on the back of the drum having a crack and eventually breaking. I eventually found a replacement part which had a slightly different part number but research showed it should be compatible. $400 for the part. $130 shipping, plus tax came out to just shy of $600. 2 week lead time to get the part, and no certainty I’d be able to put it all back together. Professional appliance repair wouldn’t have made financial sense either, I called around.
I ended up ordering a new one for $800 all in, saving many headaches. Had it two days later and was able to catch up on laundry.
Fundamentally, you're never going to be able to compete with the economies of scale of an assembly line with the same people putting together all the parts that were shipped to the same place. If the repairman has to keep an inventory of hundreds of parts for dozens of models, and drive around to where he only has time to diagnose and fix 2 appliances per day, while the factory worker can install a part for 100 appliances per day, there will always be a gap between the price of replacement versus the price of repair.
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I think about the lightbulb cartel all the time. How has no one managed to recreate those super long lasting bulbs in all this time?
Aren't led "bulbs" really durable? I'm using mostly led and feel like they last longer because they don't heat up and cool down as bad..
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This is a good first step. The next would be to lower the ridiculous amount of electronics in them and remove wifi and telemetry functionality. A dish washer should never have to connect to a server to do its job.
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Now, this is the trading standards that we all ask for; not "be more racist" or repeal the protection on lgbt. Christ, American fascism is the weirdest i have seen. Fascism in the past didn't even try to dictate the laws and regulations of other countries.
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When buying future appliances, I have to be sure to get them from the EU. Standards in the US are going to be below the floor.
Prepare to pay out the ass for that though. Between tariffs and a weakening dollar.
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Electronics in general should last longer, just like back in the day.
Well yes it's ridiculous we have (in EU) a mandatory warranty of only 2 years on anything electronic.
Phones should be 5 years. Appliances should be 10 and cars 15 or 200k kilometers. How have we normalized the fact that it's okay for a car to break down after two years and the manufacturer is not on the hook ?
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Prepare to pay out the ass for that though. Between tariffs and a weakening dollar.
Why? We don't buy products like this from the US. If its imported its coming from China.
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Aren't led "bulbs" really durable? I'm using mostly led and feel like they last longer because they don't heat up and cool down as bad..
IIRC in LEDs its normally the transformer that dies rather than the LED.
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Improving markets means regulation. Rating systems as you propose them are easily influenced and gamed by companies and subject to the same information and irrationality problems that individual consumer behaviour are.
Lastly, don't think that such EU regulations aren't initiated by and pushed for by consumer advocate groups. The commission is not in the habit of going around, saying "where is a market segment that isn't regulated and what pointless shit can we accost them with". If things work fine they just plainly let things be.
Thing is: There's always going to be chuds saying "REEEE I want a more powerful vacuum" and go with the one with the higher wattage number on the box, no matter what comparison portals say about actual performance. Those portals are nothing new, they have existed for a long time. Yet companies did get into a wattage war, and to write a bigger number on the box so that people would buy it you need to use a bigger motor and use more energy. Problem being: Noone is helped by vacuums which stick to the floor, so you also have to leak, and be loud. All that extra power, good for nothing.
There's exactly one way out of such a market failure: Regulation. "vacuums may not use more than X watt per Y of sucking power".
That's a good argument but doesn't fit the situation. The bad buying decisions can be corrected with market mechanisms. Allow people to finance the products over the entire expected lifetime. Then high quality goods are cheaper and people will choose them.
Some people speculated that Britain left the EU because they believe in markets whereas many EU countries don't. This could be one of many decisions that put the EU onto a different trajectory. We will see in 20 years if the EU can stay on top of its regulations.
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That's a good argument but doesn't fit the situation. The bad buying decisions can be corrected with market mechanisms. Allow people to finance the products over the entire expected lifetime. Then high quality goods are cheaper and people will choose them.
Some people speculated that Britain left the EU because they believe in markets whereas many EU countries don't. This could be one of many decisions that put the EU onto a different trajectory. We will see in 20 years if the EU can stay on top of its regulations.
Allow people to finance the products over the entire expected lifetime.
So you want to capture regulation in the name of the banks and whatever presumably private (because markets!!!11) agency does the life expectancy rating while simultaneously letting the manufacturers off the hook warranty-wise. Got you.
Some people speculated that Britain left the EU because they believe in markets whereas many EU countries don’t.
Those people are stupid. At least in so far as "they" refers to Britons at large. If with "they" you mean certain nobs and posh folks and with "market" you mean "offshore tax havens" then you have a point.
Brexit was pushed for by Atlas network members, notably against opposition from Atlas members from anywhere else in the world, right before the EU started tightening regulations on tax havens. Coincidence? You tell me. The rest of those neoliberal fucks rather pay taxes than burn the cake they're eating.
We will see in 20 years if the EU can stay on top of its regulations.
The EU commission, back then in the form of the ECSC High Authority, has been doing this stuff since 1952. All European post-war prosperity is based on this kind of approach. Details differ but by and large the European economical policy is ordoliberal.
