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  3. Here's an exercise in extreme masochism:

Here's an exercise in extreme masochism:

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Linux
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  • N [email protected]

    it is pretty terrifying to debootstrap over ssh. constantly checking that you're on the correct system, and using the chrooted terminal. it's like a high wire act. at least the first few times.

    semperverus@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
    semperverus@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote on last edited by
    #29

    Oh I totally believe that. I can imagine how stressful that is.

    This challenge is meant to be a bit different though, it's supposed to be more of a "Linux Ship of Theseus." Chroot, debootstrap, and dd are all very efficient ways to get the job done, but they're basically just dropping a new ship in the harbor and tugging the old one out.

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    • semperverus@lemmy.worldS [email protected]

      The Linux Ship of Theseus

      1. pick any distro and install it.

      2. Then, without installing another distro over the top of it, slowly convert it into another distro by replacing package managers, installed packages, and configurations.

      System must be usable and fully native to the new distro (all old packages replaced with new ones).

      No flatpaks, avoid snaps where physically possible, native packages only.


      Easy: pick two similar distros, such as Ubuntu and Debian or Manjaro and Arch and go from the base to the derivative.

      Medium: Same as easy but go from the derivative to the base.

      Hard: Pick two disparate distros like Debian and Artix and go from one to the other.

      Nightmare: Make a self-compiled distro your target.

      diamond@lemmy.blahaj.zoneD This user is from outside of this forum
      diamond@lemmy.blahaj.zoneD This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote on last edited by
      #30

      kid named nixos-infect:

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      • communism@lemmy.mlC [email protected]

        No? It's the same amount of "strain" as doing two full OS installs of the different distros.

        F This user is from outside of this forum
        F This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote on last edited by
        #31

        You are kind of right. I should have though about that before commenting.

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        0
        • semperverus@lemmy.worldS [email protected]

          The Linux Ship of Theseus

          1. pick any distro and install it.

          2. Then, without installing another distro over the top of it, slowly convert it into another distro by replacing package managers, installed packages, and configurations.

          System must be usable and fully native to the new distro (all old packages replaced with new ones).

          No flatpaks, avoid snaps where physically possible, native packages only.


          Easy: pick two similar distros, such as Ubuntu and Debian or Manjaro and Arch and go from the base to the derivative.

          Medium: Same as easy but go from the derivative to the base.

          Hard: Pick two disparate distros like Debian and Artix and go from one to the other.

          Nightmare: Make a self-compiled distro your target.

          E This user is from outside of this forum
          E This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote on last edited by
          #32

          So, any distro to any other distro?

          • Installs Fedora Silverblue
          • Rebases to Bazzite

          Jobs done chief!

          umbrella@lemmy.mlU princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zoneP 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • E [email protected]

            So, any distro to any other distro?

            • Installs Fedora Silverblue
            • Rebases to Bazzite

            Jobs done chief!

            umbrella@lemmy.mlU This user is from outside of this forum
            umbrella@lemmy.mlU This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote on last edited by [email protected]
            #33

            .

            semperverus@lemmy.worldS 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • F [email protected]

              I am not enough educated about this, but don't these kind of games unnecesarrily strain all the servers that host the packages for people that really need them for download and most of these people run these servers for free in good will and faith that they will serve meaningful needs with positive resulty? I know I am spoiling the fun, but I felt like I had to point this out.

              semperverus@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
              semperverus@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote on last edited by
              #34

              As other commenters have said, its about as strenuous as doing two normal installs.

              However, if you want to do this challenge but feel guilty about the consumed resources, consider donating to the two distros you are performing this with to cover any additional service costs. In all likelihood it'll be fractions of pennies, but any reason to donate to FOSS is always appreciated.

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • umbrella@lemmy.mlU [email protected]

                .

                semperverus@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                semperverus@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote on last edited by
                #35

                The beauty of this exercise is you can make it as easy or challenging as you want just by changing the targets, and finding different combinations can keep things interesting.

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • O [email protected]

                  I once switched from Debian i386 to amd64 in-place. That was MUCH harder than you would expect, I guess somewhere between medium and hard in your list. That server is still running that install btw, so in the end it all worked out.

                  gashead76@lemmy.worldG This user is from outside of this forum
                  gashead76@lemmy.worldG This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #36

                  I had forgotten about doing that myself. I did that on a couple servers once the distros had full 64 bit builds. Does that technically count as an architecture swap in-place as well?

                  O 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • semperverus@lemmy.worldS [email protected]

                    The Linux Ship of Theseus

                    1. pick any distro and install it.

                    2. Then, without installing another distro over the top of it, slowly convert it into another distro by replacing package managers, installed packages, and configurations.

                    System must be usable and fully native to the new distro (all old packages replaced with new ones).

                    No flatpaks, avoid snaps where physically possible, native packages only.


                    Easy: pick two similar distros, such as Ubuntu and Debian or Manjaro and Arch and go from the base to the derivative.

                    Medium: Same as easy but go from the derivative to the base.

                    Hard: Pick two disparate distros like Debian and Artix and go from one to the other.

                    Nightmare: Make a self-compiled distro your target.

                    D This user is from outside of this forum
                    D This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #37

                    Theoretically one could also prohibit rebooting.

                    IIRC kexec is pivot_root but for the kernel.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • semperverus@lemmy.worldS [email protected]

                      The Linux Ship of Theseus

                      1. pick any distro and install it.

                      2. Then, without installing another distro over the top of it, slowly convert it into another distro by replacing package managers, installed packages, and configurations.

                      System must be usable and fully native to the new distro (all old packages replaced with new ones).

                      No flatpaks, avoid snaps where physically possible, native packages only.


                      Easy: pick two similar distros, such as Ubuntu and Debian or Manjaro and Arch and go from the base to the derivative.

                      Medium: Same as easy but go from the derivative to the base.

                      Hard: Pick two disparate distros like Debian and Artix and go from one to the other.

                      Nightmare: Make a self-compiled distro your target.

                      B This user is from outside of this forum
                      B This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #38

                      Love the idea of the challenge, my issue would be lack of a validator tool to confirm I'd completed the challenge - any suggestions?

                      M semperverus@lemmy.worldS 2 Replies Last reply
                      0
                      • G [email protected]

                        I "broke" linux mint just by trying to pop KDE on, had to timeshift because it messed up my keyboard layout and a whole bunch of other things with my display.

                        I don't know how people do these crazy changes without pain, and have a feeling the answer is simply "there's pain" 😂

                        ? Offline
                        ? Offline
                        Guest
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #39

                        Reminds me of trying NsCDE… it changed a ton of settings and no other desktop looked right after that. I ended just blowing away my home folder and restoring my files

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • semperverus@lemmy.worldS [email protected]

                          The Linux Ship of Theseus

                          1. pick any distro and install it.

                          2. Then, without installing another distro over the top of it, slowly convert it into another distro by replacing package managers, installed packages, and configurations.

                          System must be usable and fully native to the new distro (all old packages replaced with new ones).

                          No flatpaks, avoid snaps where physically possible, native packages only.


                          Easy: pick two similar distros, such as Ubuntu and Debian or Manjaro and Arch and go from the base to the derivative.

                          Medium: Same as easy but go from the derivative to the base.

                          Hard: Pick two disparate distros like Debian and Artix and go from one to the other.

                          Nightmare: Make a self-compiled distro your target.

                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #40

                          The compiled distros should be easy instead of nightmare tbh

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • semperverus@lemmy.worldS [email protected]

                            The Linux Ship of Theseus

                            1. pick any distro and install it.

                            2. Then, without installing another distro over the top of it, slowly convert it into another distro by replacing package managers, installed packages, and configurations.

                            System must be usable and fully native to the new distro (all old packages replaced with new ones).

                            No flatpaks, avoid snaps where physically possible, native packages only.


                            Easy: pick two similar distros, such as Ubuntu and Debian or Manjaro and Arch and go from the base to the derivative.

                            Medium: Same as easy but go from the derivative to the base.

                            Hard: Pick two disparate distros like Debian and Artix and go from one to the other.

                            Nightmare: Make a self-compiled distro your target.

                            S This user is from outside of this forum
                            S This user is from outside of this forum
                            [email protected]
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #41

                            This is what I was doing with my server. I've learned there's no better feeling than starting from scratch.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • semperverus@lemmy.worldS [email protected]

                              The Linux Ship of Theseus

                              1. pick any distro and install it.

                              2. Then, without installing another distro over the top of it, slowly convert it into another distro by replacing package managers, installed packages, and configurations.

                              System must be usable and fully native to the new distro (all old packages replaced with new ones).

                              No flatpaks, avoid snaps where physically possible, native packages only.


                              Easy: pick two similar distros, such as Ubuntu and Debian or Manjaro and Arch and go from the base to the derivative.

                              Medium: Same as easy but go from the derivative to the base.

                              Hard: Pick two disparate distros like Debian and Artix and go from one to the other.

                              Nightmare: Make a self-compiled distro your target.

                              L This user is from outside of this forum
                              L This user is from outside of this forum
                              [email protected]
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #42

                              Ummm you go first.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • semperverus@lemmy.worldS [email protected]

                                The Linux Ship of Theseus

                                1. pick any distro and install it.

                                2. Then, without installing another distro over the top of it, slowly convert it into another distro by replacing package managers, installed packages, and configurations.

                                System must be usable and fully native to the new distro (all old packages replaced with new ones).

                                No flatpaks, avoid snaps where physically possible, native packages only.


                                Easy: pick two similar distros, such as Ubuntu and Debian or Manjaro and Arch and go from the base to the derivative.

                                Medium: Same as easy but go from the derivative to the base.

                                Hard: Pick two disparate distros like Debian and Artix and go from one to the other.

                                Nightmare: Make a self-compiled distro your target.

                                ? Offline
                                ? Offline
                                Guest
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #43

                                May, I introduce you to bedrock

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                1
                                • gashead76@lemmy.worldG [email protected]

                                  I had forgotten about doing that myself. I did that on a couple servers once the distros had full 64 bit builds. Does that technically count as an architecture swap in-place as well?

                                  O This user is from outside of this forum
                                  O This user is from outside of this forum
                                  [email protected]
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #44

                                  Absolutely, that's basically the same thing

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • B [email protected]

                                    Love the idea of the challenge, my issue would be lack of a validator tool to confirm I'd completed the challenge - any suggestions?

                                    M This user is from outside of this forum
                                    M This user is from outside of this forum
                                    [email protected]
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #45

                                    You use the new franken system to do an update to the new version of that distro's flavour without bricking the system.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    1
                                    • semperverus@lemmy.worldS [email protected]

                                      The Linux Ship of Theseus

                                      1. pick any distro and install it.

                                      2. Then, without installing another distro over the top of it, slowly convert it into another distro by replacing package managers, installed packages, and configurations.

                                      System must be usable and fully native to the new distro (all old packages replaced with new ones).

                                      No flatpaks, avoid snaps where physically possible, native packages only.


                                      Easy: pick two similar distros, such as Ubuntu and Debian or Manjaro and Arch and go from the base to the derivative.

                                      Medium: Same as easy but go from the derivative to the base.

                                      Hard: Pick two disparate distros like Debian and Artix and go from one to the other.

                                      Nightmare: Make a self-compiled distro your target.

                                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                                      [email protected]
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #46

                                      Okay i'll cheat with Guix then

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • B [email protected]

                                        Love the idea of the challenge, my issue would be lack of a validator tool to confirm I'd completed the challenge - any suggestions?

                                        semperverus@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                                        semperverus@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                                        [email protected]
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #47

                                        After completing the challenge and making sure your system is usable and can survive a reboot:

                                        If you've kept the old package manager, search for installed packages and make sure that the package manager itself is the only thing left. Then delete itm

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • semperverus@lemmy.worldS [email protected]

                                          The Linux Ship of Theseus

                                          1. pick any distro and install it.

                                          2. Then, without installing another distro over the top of it, slowly convert it into another distro by replacing package managers, installed packages, and configurations.

                                          System must be usable and fully native to the new distro (all old packages replaced with new ones).

                                          No flatpaks, avoid snaps where physically possible, native packages only.


                                          Easy: pick two similar distros, such as Ubuntu and Debian or Manjaro and Arch and go from the base to the derivative.

                                          Medium: Same as easy but go from the derivative to the base.

                                          Hard: Pick two disparate distros like Debian and Artix and go from one to the other.

                                          Nightmare: Make a self-compiled distro your target.

                                          N This user is from outside of this forum
                                          N This user is from outside of this forum
                                          [email protected]
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #48

                                          without installing another distro over the top of it ... [replace] package managers

                                          The package manager is the distro, though.

                                          $ pacman -S apk-tools
                                          $ apk add alpine-base linux-lts
                                          

                                          Then kexec to alpine's kernel and the initramfs generated by its installation (which would incidentally "replace" PID 1 with the new /sbin/init). For clean up you could take a diff of "tar -t" for all the installed packages from both distros then delete the files only in the old distro's packages.

                                          Make a self-compiled distro your target.

                                          Replace the first step with a compilation of apk, abuild everything required by alpine-base and linux-lts (git clone aports to bootstrap that work), then add the package directory to /etc/apk/repositories before the second step. Next, begin to worry that you haven't fully broken free yet, replace abuild with a bespoke mybuild and apk with tar -x, grapple with signed binaries, reflect on your own identity and authenticity, then take a tour through gentoo and find yourself missing the $HOME you left and its familiar comforts.

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