Why do Americans pretend they're not broke when most Americans are in debt?
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No idea who down voted you but holy shit, some people om here resent the idea of having to educate themselves.
Hopefully threat actors but JFC
Do we have a personal finance community on fedi?!
I am sure there is enough middle age cucks here to provide proper info for specific questions.
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My savings are invested in the stock market, and the returns I get from that are higher than the interest on my mortgage. If I liquidated my investments to pay off the house, the savings from not paying mortgage interest would still be less than what I’d make from the market over the same period. I’d rather use the profits from my investments to cover the mortgage interest - that way I still have money left over. If I did the opposite, I’d lose that extra money.
Your personal financial situation is not really representative of the financial situation of Americans in general though.
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Most americans aren't in debt.
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Most americans aren't in debt.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Most americans aren’t in debt.
American household debt is on a relentless upward trajectory. It was at a record $18.20 trillion by 2025, up $4.6 trillion since 2019. With 90% of Americans having some form of debt
https://www.debt.org/faqs/americans-in-debt/demographics/
IDK about US education and math but "most" in the rest of the world means more than 50%.
10% = not good -
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It's just temporary trust me.
Tonight is the night, I'm going to sleep and have
the American Dream 
️ 
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I mean, it depends on what you mean by that. Anyone who has a credit card is going to have debt, just by virtue of needing to pay the bill.
But if you mean "most Americans have a negative net worth" --- taking into account assets and debts --- most Americans have a positive net worth.
https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/average-net-worth-by-age-how-do-you-measure-up
The median net worth of all Americans in 2022 was $192,900.
Credit cards don't have to mean debt if you pay them off before the intrest applies. That's how you use them responsibly. Many don't.
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Debt is not a broke person thing. Most people you'd consider to be well off have debt.
Americans dont feel broke because they have extremely strong purchasing power.
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My savings are invested in the stock market, and the returns I get from that are higher than the interest on my mortgage. If I liquidated my investments to pay off the house, the savings from not paying mortgage interest would still be less than what I’d make from the market over the same period. I’d rather use the profits from my investments to cover the mortgage interest - that way I still have money left over. If I did the opposite, I’d lose that extra money.
What would happen if stock market dives?
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Your personal financial situation is not really representative of the financial situation of Americans in general though.
No, even regular savings accounts have ~4% interest, so it makes sense for anyone who got a mortgage more than 2-3 years ago when the rates went up. Any extra money shouldn't be going to pay down old debt faster, it should be in savings or other high yield accounts.
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What would happen if stock market dives?
The value of my portfolio dips too, but I don’t actually lose anything unless I sell. I just hold and wait for prices to recover - as they always have so far. In fact, when the market drops I buy even more, because the same money gets me more shares. People don’t lose their savings because of a crash; they lose them because they panic and sell for less than they paid.
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I mean, I have a hot tub. Granted, it been sitting on its side for about 5 years, the critters have claimed it as their own and now live inside, and the siding is rotted to hell, but it's there.
Sounds to me like the critters are the Jones's now!
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Credit cards don't have to mean debt if you pay them off before the intrest applies. That's how you use them responsibly. Many don't.
wrote last edited by [email protected]It's debt regardless of whether or not one pays interest. Debt isn't linked to interest. Just means that you have an obligation to pay money to someone.
EDIT: Though in fairness, if one never actually uses a credit card at all, then one never takes out debt, so I suppose it's probably better to say "if one has a credit card that one uses".
EDIT2: Though all this is not to diminish your point that not carrying credit card debt from month to month is generally a pretty good rule to live by.
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I mean, it depends on what you mean by that. Anyone who has a credit card is going to have debt, just by virtue of needing to pay the bill.
But if you mean "most Americans have a negative net worth" --- taking into account assets and debts --- most Americans have a positive net worth.
https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/average-net-worth-by-age-how-do-you-measure-up
The median net worth of all Americans in 2022 was $192,900.
I'd be interested to see the median net worth after removing the top 1%, but I can't be bothered to Google it atm ..
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I'd be interested to see the median net worth after removing the top 1%, but I can't be bothered to Google it atm ..
It'd have an effect, but not a large one --- that's why one uses median, rather than mean.
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I think most americans identify with the book cover, and not the book.
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Sorry, I'm dense. For me being in debt and paying off something like a loan on a house has the purpose of paying something you do not have the funds for to pay off in one go. Seeing as the longer you take paying it off, the more you actually pay since rates increase or whatever, depends on contract specififcs.
How is it not a smart thing for you? Is this about US credit rating system or something else.
Edit: thanks to all replies, not gonna spam thank yous to you all. Didn't consider those options.
Besides what others have said, there is a mortgage interest deduction on taxes in the US. It’s basically the government saying “we want you to buy a house, so for the interest you pay on a home loan, you don’t have to pay taxes on it.” So combine that with a low rate, and it absolutely makes sense to have that debt and put the money to work elsewhere.
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I don't know anyone pretending they aren't broke in America...I know a lot of good people struggling paycheck to paycheck and that's it. I love how Lemmy has become this echo chamber of hate for Americans when y'all are just as fucked in Europe and other countries too with so many similar or different issues. Imagine a little compassion for all people rather than assuming "America bad because America". Just so incredibly sad and stupid to see how dumb so many people are.. that kind of thought process is exactly the same type of people that vote for trump that have this same attitude about "insert race or country here". Y'all need a reality check, yesterday...
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Debt, used properly, makes you wealthy. Every billionaire you know has debt because of the advantages.
I grew up middle class. To afford my prestigeous university, I took out debt (before grant only financial aid). The value of my education allowed me to earn a higher salary to pay it off in two years. I kept earning that salary and more after the debt was paid. It had a high present value.
I bought my latest house four years ago. Mortgage rates were so low I decided to finance part of it at 2% even though I had the cash. I now earn 4.5% in money markets. After taxes, I earn 0.72% every year not to pay off my mortgage. With $350,000 remaining, this is an extra $2,500/year right now.
I shop with credit cards that give me 2-5% back on purchases. I pay off my balance every month and have never paid one penny in interest or penalties in over a decade. My credit cards therefore pay ~$1,500/year tax free.
Larry Ellison likes controlling Oracle and being a billionaire. Rather than selling stock of Oracle to fund his lifestyle, he instead borrows against the value of the stock. As Oracle appreciated, he got to keep the gains he doesn't trigger capital gains taxes.
Most Americans do live paycheck to paycheck. They live at the ragged edge of their means and remain ignorant of finance. However, this is a global phenomenon. The difference is that much of the United States tax code is set up to benefit the wealthy. Adopt their habits and your wealth starts to snowball.
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Besides what others have said, there is a mortgage interest deduction on taxes in the US. It’s basically the government saying “we want you to buy a house, so for the interest you pay on a home loan, you don’t have to pay taxes on it.” So combine that with a low rate, and it absolutely makes sense to have that debt and put the money to work elsewhere.
That is still technically true, but it requires filing your taxes with "itemized deductions" wherein you provide a complete list of all the things that you can deduct from your taxable income before calculating the tax owed. Stuff like mortgage interest, charitable donations, medical and education expenses. Back in 2013 up to 30% of tax filers did that. Mostly this was done by higher income people who had enough income and deductions to put them over the default standard deduction.
The "standard deduction" was increased in big changes to our taxes in 2018, and since then only about 10% of filers itemized. So mortgage interest isn't usually paid with pre-tax money anymore by up to two thirds of those who did it before.
The other reasons for carrying a low interest rate mortgage are still true.
