They're literally conspiring against you
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What makes you think it's so mechanised? Material is often cut on bandsaw in stacks inches thick, they're sewn on machine, sure, but manually controlled by a human. Different designers, different factories, different QA levels.
Okay, thats fair, but it's way less fun to say 'corporatized and taylorized'
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I suppose one of the many reasons why there are no consistent clothing sizes is because it's so difficult to agree on a way to measure things. What parts do you measure? The lower leg thickness? the upper leg thickness? the waist circumference? The leg's length? What if these numbers are all independent of each other and can't be reduced to a single number?
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I read a thing (not sure if it's true) that the reason there's no pockets in women's clothing is that women have more diverse body shapes than men. Pockets are designed not to interrupt the lines of the garment where possible - it's more straightforward to place men's pockets because they're going to be in a more predictable place when worn Vs women where it ends up making the clothes fit poorly.
where it ends up making the clothes fit poorly
a.k.a makes the clothes fit anything but skin-tight because the pockets need space so the clothes have to be wider-cut
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It's less extreme but men's clothing is like this too. I found a cut of jeans I liked in a store then ordered 4 mor pairs in different colors. None fit the same and 2 were unwearable.
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Lemmy needs a community for A Bra That Fits. It's hard to express just how bad the bra-sizing problem is in the US. It goes far and beyond vanity sizing. I don't even bother with US sizes anymore. Not only do the sizes mean next-to-nothing, but most stores only carry up to about ~ 44 DDD. Which means that many people who require different sizes end up wearing what's available - even if it doesn't fit right. When I measure myself and plug it into a bra sizing calculator, I end up with something even specialty lingerie shops don't carry. But that's not a problem for Victoria's Secret or whatever - they'll attempt to push whatever they have in stock, even if its sizing makes no sense, because their end goal is to make a sale - not to actually help you.
I suspect the powers of capitalism (aided by the internet/shopping online) have convinced most stores not to carry sizes that aren't mainstream. Yes, this even applies to boutique shops that supposedly cater to larger sizes. They don't want to keep stock that isn't likely to move, which means tons of people like me end up getting completely shafted. I could spend hours researching places, making calls, traveling across the state to find these places, find the one or two bras in the entire building that actually fit me, just to end up with a material that makes me itch or has an ugly style that only a grandma would wear. (Sexy lingerie? For massive titties? LOL good luck finding that.) I've wasted days doing this, and it's only gotten worse since Covid (when many stores moved inventory out of physical buildings and made them exclusively available online. Which defeats the point of actually going to their stores at all.) My only real option is to bra shop online, using British sizes, and fucking pray that everything will work out all right.
On top of that, bras are expensive. Prices vary with sales and all, but I'd say about $50 is average for one. Add in the scarcity aspect and the varying quality levels (that I can't afford to be picky about), and I'm lucky to own 2-3 bras that fit at any given time. I have to hand-wash and thoroughly dry my bra most nights so I can wear it again the next day without risking a yeast infection. It absolutely sucks and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it.
I agree! I was wanting a woman-oriented instance that could host things like ABTF. If I went with piefed it would help with voting being available to subscribers, but I would also like a way to have it hidden from /all. I would like to get it up and running but we'll see.
Even when I tried Victoria's Secret, they never had pretty/sexy colors/styles in my "size" (they sized me incorrectly, too small at 34DDD). Even the calculator got me wrong and told me 34FF/F (too big). I ended up being 36E in Panache in certain styles. They are expensive, but I've been ordering it online at places that accepts returns to try on, then buy cheaper on places like ebay. I was also a 34G in Chantelle. Have you tried Polish bras? I think they are much more expensive but people on that sub were always bringing up Ewa Michalak. I haven't tried it since I've found some consistency in Panache.
I hate hand-washing btw, I usually throw them in a washing machine with a lingerie bag and air dry them but recently tried hand-washing and fuck that noise. I'm going to try to stick with hand-washing to extend the lifespan but ugh. I also managed to scrub off one of my bras' label info on accident q.q It was so exhausting. I can't imagine having to do that every day, so sorry.
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i know the author is only familiar with their own experiences and i don't expect them to know the other side but this is definitely not exclusive to women's clothes. every brand just uses their own sizes for everything from hats to pants to shoes.
Some woman shop for/wear "men's" clothes, either because they shop for the men in their life, or for themselves because the standards are more sensible (even if not perfect) compared to women's sizing. In other situations, we wear "men's" cut clothes because it's the default - like when a workplace gives everyone a free T-shirt. 9 times out of 10, it's probably a cut designed for men - even if the workplace has a majority of women (as was the case when I worked in a nursing home.)
At least for pants, a lot of men's pants sizes usually go off a band + length measurement, which is a ratio that women's clothes don't offer at all. T-shirts can be bad either way, but I once grabbed two ("women's") shirts off the same rack in a store and both fit me perfectly - one was Small, the other was Extra Large. I've never seen that bad of a difference when trying on "men's" clothes, and that's part of why I prefer to buy from the men's section. It's more sensible.
So yeah, vanity sizing hurts everyone. But unless you do shop for both men's and women's clothes, it's hard to appreciate just how awful vanity sizing is for women in particular.
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I suppose one of the many reasons why there are no consistent clothing sizes is because it's so difficult to agree on a way to measure things. What parts do you measure? The lower leg thickness? the upper leg thickness? the waist circumference? The leg's length? What if these numbers are all independent of each other and can't be reduced to a single number?
different cuts exist that already set out at least some standards for this
I don't disagree that it is difficult, but we have the ability to do this. We've done more difficult things
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I really want a law that requires clothes sizes to use actual, verifiable measurements.
wrote last edited by [email protected]yeah hope they'll get right on that, add it to the list. we've already got one on the list: pass a law saying you cant shrink portion sizes on your labels until you can say "zero calories" in each of 1000 servings of oil
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You gained weight after the first purchase, and then converted the fat to muscle in the second purchase
Schrodinger's body composition: fat or muscle depending on what pair of pants you wear.
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It's less extreme but men's clothing is like this too. I found a cut of jeans I liked in a store then ordered 4 mor pairs in different colors. None fit the same and 2 were unwearable.
I wear size 34 cargo shorts.
There is no point near my waist that is even close to a tape measured 34 inches.
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I suppose one of the many reasons why there are no consistent clothing sizes is because it's so difficult to agree on a way to measure things. What parts do you measure? The lower leg thickness? the upper leg thickness? the waist circumference? The leg's length? What if these numbers are all independent of each other and can't be reduced to a single number?
We have centimetres, how hard is it to just provide the measurements of a piece of clothing with it?
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different cuts exist that already set out at least some standards for this
I don't disagree that it is difficult, but we have the ability to do this. We've done more difficult things
wrote last edited by [email protected]if companies actually did share 5 numbers with each piece of clothing (notice that that actually wouldn't work since each piece of clothing is a bit different since they're still largely hand-sown and measuring each piece of clothing is unpayably expensive) it would lead to a bureaucracy hell. businesses in europe already complain about too much bureaucracy, because they have to document a lot of things, and this would make the outcry a lot worse.
on top of that most customers wouldn't actually bother reading a datasheet of 5 numbers and instead just try them on. so it's not even a big advantage.
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It's not woman-exclusive and also the companies deciding the sizing are not the same as the companies running department stores (for large clothing brands these days, online shopping in their own store would be optimal, since retailers take a large cut).
It's mainly that making sure sizes are actually the same costs more money than just going with whatever comes out, and it's hard to make purchasing decisions based on size consistency once a large amount of brands do this.
Well that's just declining quality due to profit motivated practices. Like yeah if you're going to old navy or H&M you're going to be disappointed. A second-hand store is a total guess. Avoiding fast fashion and sticking to a known high quality brand is at least going to give you some consistency for mens wear. I have throughout my life for example been able to order levis' slim-straight in the same size and expect the same fit with only minor but expected variations depending on material (thick/stretch, etc). Haven't bought Levi's in ages though so maybe they're garbage now idk. I don't know of a single woman who's ever had the luxury of a brand that makes clothes they don't have to try on.
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I feel the same way, especially shoes. I guess the chart, size guide and even measurements is BS.
This is why I dont order clothes online, last order I got the shirts are like big night shirts. Ah, well. -
This is one of many reasons I don't buy textbook economics of capitalism.
For example, if they'd just put lots of pockets in women's clothing decades ago as standard, they'd have sold SOOOO much.
This idea that capitalism and the free hand of the market will gravitate towards bulk of demand is bullshit.
I use to work retail selling (mostly) women clothes. At one point we had the same model of sundress with and without pockets. Every one of them that was watching or trying the one without got like super hyped and excited when we told them we had it with pockets. The pocketless one still sold better. And it wasn't even a tight fitting dress, it was slack and baggy.
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And then imagine how it feels like to shop for clothes if your body doesn't even conform to the expected average norms.
I god damn hate it. Stuff is either too wide or too short, the sleeves are NEVER long enough, the only available shoes that fit and don't feel like torture are jogging shoes or sneakers, the neck width is never sufficient (unless you buy men's clothes, which will look like a tent because tits weren't part of the equasion)…
Uuugh, I hate shopping for clothes. -.-
You should be super angry about this. First, clothes sizing is based off of a size 4 fit model let’s call her Gwen. Gwen is the designers idea of the perfect woman. She’s usually white, and she has perfect proportions. All the jeans from the brand are sized up from Gwen’s butt.
Clothes are made to fit Gwen, not you, and when you go into the shop, things don’t fit, we always blame ourselves and our bodies. Even though the clothes were never intended to fit us they were intended to fit Gwen.And guess what. When standard sizes were first measured at least in the US, they purposely excluded women of color. So the basis of sizing is completely biased.
The only positive, there are now a bunch of independent sewing pattern companies that have more diverse fits of clothing. Sewing and tailoring and pattern drafting are the best way to stop supporting all the companies that produce fast, racist fashion. If you want to make affordable clothing, look for a creative reuse store for inexpensive fabric to practice on. There’s tons of free information on YouTube to learn sewing.
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I know this is a problem, as I see my wife deal with it frequently.
But understand that men's sizes aren't consistent either. I have a 32" waist...maybe. Some jeans and shorts fit me perfectly, some are way too tight, and some are way too loose. Even within the same brand and product. The jeans I have on today are pretty good for fit. A different pair of jeans I was wearing a few days ago required regular adjustments to keep from falling down. My weight hasn't varied THAT much.
The situation for men isn't as bad as women's sizes, though. I'd love to know how they think they can compress all of the different measurements a woman's body can have into a single number. At least they haven't tried that with men - for example, pants are waist and inseam length, so you can usually get what you need, or at least pretty close (notwithstanding the above issue). If they condensed that into one number, I have no idea how that would work.
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Yes, that’s exactly what it is.
Which brand has good quality control?
They're not a fashion brand, but I've had good quality long lasting jeans from Eddie Bauer.
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I knew it! I'm not crazy!
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I don't wear women's clothes, but I do feel like shirt sizes are some sort of scam. I want a long shirt, yet the L and the XL are the same length. Wtf. Or when an L is longer than an XL. Granted, maybe the size is horizontal rather than vertical. But c'mon.
That's why I propose a 2d size system. Size for height and for width. Also, sizes got to mean something. Not just feels, but concrete values within a range. Or make them numbers, idk.
Length and width ought not be yoked like that, an XL shouldn't be longer, just wider. You need Short, Medium, and Tall and Extra Tall for that dimension.
I was a tall and skinny kid and the heartbreak of never having pants long enough, because the small ones were all also very short, still I feel it!
As an adult, the first time I saw a ladies size Small Tall in the shop I almost cried.
Women's bra sizes also suck, because the volume of the cups is tied to the diameter of the half circle the underwire describes, but small boobs aren't small in width, they just sit closer. Champagne glass, but small bras assume shot glass instead, basically. They need three measurements.
