German army struggles to get Gen Z recruits ‘ready for war’
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/27232360
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It can only be a good thing if the enemy shares the same values, which is not the case with Russia.
Even if it only leads to reconsidering and restructuring conventional "militaries" then I'd also count that as a drop in the good-bucket. I can't quite see values factoring into it, what do you mean by that?
For example that you cannot just invade other countries to take them over, that you shouldn't kill people with other religions or sexual preferences, or that your country is superior to all the others.
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German liberal nationalism is a sham for different reasons, but also neoliberalism destroyed the economic social contract.
Why should i die, so old people can sit in their large houses unaffordable to me, despite my better qualification, while they also destroy the environment and proudly fuel climate change with their big cars and cruise travels? Of course there is also plenty of old people who barely get by. But those dont demand the young people to sacrifice themselves in the reactionary "liberal" media.
At the same time Germany does have access to higher education without going through the military if you aren't affluent. So forcing the poor into the military as the only option to escape poverty is not as severe like in the US.
You should look at it through a more utilitarianism POV. If your country gets invaded, not only do you loose your way of life, culture and society get impacted to the point where you won't be able to continue as normal, but the environmental destruction of war in your own country far outweighs what the gerontocratic part of your society does today. You only have to look to Ukraine for that.
So it might be more advantageously to voluntarily undergo military training, so that in the event of an invasion you can try to defend your way of life and continue to strive for a more equal and environmental conscious after the war is over.
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It can only be a good thing if the enemy shares the same values, which is not the case with Russia.
Even if it only leads to reconsidering and restructuring conventional "militaries" then I'd also count that as a drop in the good-bucket. I can't quite see values factoring into it, what do you mean by that?
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Sorry to hear that. As human civilisation, we all lost honor, accountability, pride of a well done job. Sure, there are still a lot of people like that, but it is not the norm. We somehow need a reset, but we are not a computer that is easily resettable. And the systems in place just make people more broken. In my opinion education is everything, but to enforce good education…we are also depending on the current leaders. And there are very few good leaders in this world, because the system breaks you before getting in a position where you can make a change.I think we also lack small communities. One‘s behaviour gets regulated by the feedback you have from the community. And it also can inspire you tu help and be a better person. In Today’s age, we are so individual, there are no external regulations, there is zero tolerance to being uncomfortable, because you don’t have to. Your life and basic necessities do not depend on your community as before. Most people are not bad, they are just misguided, unhappy and they do not know how to deal with emotions, how to self regulate. And if nobody regulates you with a feedback, yo go wild. I really hope there will be a change in our views now that it looks like Europe is on its own and we have to take care of each others. But I don’t put my hopes up too much.
I agree!
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Sorry to hear that. As human civilisation, we all lost honor, accountability, pride of a well done job. Sure, there are still a lot of people like that, but it is not the norm. We somehow need a reset, but we are not a computer that is easily resettable. And the systems in place just make people more broken. In my opinion education is everything, but to enforce good education…we are also depending on the current leaders. And there are very few good leaders in this world, because the system breaks you before getting in a position where you can make a change.
I think we also lack small communities. One‘s behaviour gets regulated by the feedback you have from the community. And it also can inspire you tu help and be a better person. In Today’s age, we are so individual, there are no external regulations, there is zero tolerance to being uncomfortable, because you don’t have to. Your life and basic necessities do not depend on your community as before. Most people are not bad, they are just misguided, unhappy and they do not know how to deal with emotions, how to self regulate. And if nobody regulates you with a feedback, yo go wild. I really hope there will be a change in our views now that it looks like Europe is on its own and we have to take care of each others. But I don’t put my hopes up too much.
As human civilisation, we all lost honor, accountability, pride of a well done job.
Decades of neoliberalism glorifying boundless egotism as the ultimate freedom and elevating limitless consumption to the highest achievement made sure of it.
I think we also lack small communities.
Definitely. Unfortunately, neoliberalism with all its deregulation has also been systematically destroying the small scale economy that has kept small communities alive. Working class people can't afford services of local small businesses anymore, and have to look for work further and further away from their homes. In rural areas hit especially hard by this (politically wanted) structural change, this has already lead to a massive depopulation, leaving behind only the destitute who can barely afford a sense of community, and a handful of wealthy people who enjoy owning a cheap weekend home on the countryside just as much as they love to shit on the community it is located in.
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I am Swiss. Let me tell you, our army is a joke. The system is there but it's only on paper.
It’s an amassment of stupid people who can’t make it in the private sector. No one with a quarter of a brain can stand being in that organisation.
Sounds a bit like the German military. Does Swiss German also know the term "Zivilversager"?
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War is not a solution, but not being able to defend yourself and your allies in case of aggression is also not a solution.
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Schools until recently told us that conventional war is ‘fallen out of time’, “look at UN, EU, OSCE”.
Wow, that's been the attitude here too, but you never hear people say it outright.
Technically, conventional war is largely obsolete. As long as you do have a reliable and credible nuclear deterrent. Germany has long been in the very comfortable position to fool itself into deeming conventional war obsolete without having to maintain an own nuclear deterrent. With the USA finally having revealed itself as an utterly unreliable ally, (as more of the kind of "ally" commonly called an enemy) this illusion is falling apart.
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For example that you cannot just invade other countries to take them over, that you shouldn't kill people with other religions or sexual preferences, or that your country is superior to all the others.
For example that you cannot just invade other countries to take them over, that you shouldn’t kill people with other religions or sexual preferences, or that your country is superior to all the others.
Apologies for not wording that more clearly, but I was not asking for examples of value differences. I was asking why you think value differences make more and more people refusing to risk their lives not a good thing.
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You’ve got to be joking acting like you dont understand the stakes of war
I think there might be some misunderstanding here - what do you think I wrote in my previous post? What am I missing?
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Because it's going to get a LOT worse once a greedy dictator decides to annex another country.
Don't need to tell me but one thing is visible and tangible everyday and the other thing is something way more abstract for most.
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As a German Gen Z my main concern would be the fact that you can't rely on the promise that our army is purely there for defence. I'm ready to defend my home and the home of my neighbors but I'm not willing to be sent to another continent to do so. Right now that may not be an issue but these things can change overnight.
What do you mean? Germany is defended in the Hindukush of course /s
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What do you mean? Germany is defended in the Hindukush of course /s
Exactly
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But one senior army commander said members of Generation Z — renowned in the business world for their efforts to reshape corporate culture — were also going into the armed forces with different ideas and outlooks. “People are vulnerable, they cry easily,” he said. “They talk about work-life balance.”
“I understand that,” the commander added. “They grew up in a different time. It’s not a bad perspective. But it doesn’t match that well with a wartime situation.”
Work-life balance obviously goes out the window in a war (actually, life itself does). Does being vulnerable really preclude you from being brave, though?
We live in a hyper-individualistic society which is self-centred. This is only exacerbated by social media, where attention and being the main character is more important than ever.
The new generation is living more and more in society. Instead of being part of society. Being part of something bigger is uncommon nowadays. Which makes participation in something as extreme as a war unfathomable.
If you look at countries with high levels of civil sense like Taiwan. We see school uniforms and military service. Kids are being raised to be part of a free and democratic society, not to just live in it. -
It was true. It was the longest continuous peace in Europe ever.
Yeah, but, they all end. Nobody ever had a good argument why it had to go on forever.
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Yeah that's why current events hit people twice as hard. We basically all assumed peace to be a given. It's not.
I wish the West could have woken up before it was on top of us.
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Technically, conventional war is largely obsolete. As long as you do have a reliable and credible nuclear deterrent. Germany has long been in the very comfortable position to fool itself into deeming conventional war obsolete without having to maintain an own nuclear deterrent. With the USA finally having revealed itself as an utterly unreliable ally, (as more of the kind of "ally" commonly called an enemy) this illusion is falling apart.
Oh, well that's true. How is the offer of formal protection by France being received? I'd hate to see more proliferation.
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We live in a hyper-individualistic society which is self-centred. This is only exacerbated by social media, where attention and being the main character is more important than ever.
The new generation is living more and more in society. Instead of being part of society. Being part of something bigger is uncommon nowadays. Which makes participation in something as extreme as a war unfathomable.
If you look at countries with high levels of civil sense like Taiwan. We see school uniforms and military service. Kids are being raised to be part of a free and democratic society, not to just live in it.I can't really provide evidence for or against that in recent years, but I'll point out the greatest generation grew up during the literal great depression, with starvation and (in America) the KKK running around.
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I wish the West could have woken up before it was on top of us.
Better late than never
