Advice for a Linux Laptop in 2025
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Do elaborate
Mostly it boils down to three categories:
- Case build quality. This seems a be a frequent issue among System76 laptops; in my case (no pun intended), the laptop case was very badly made and easily broke. I carry my device around very much, always in my backpack, which has a padded laptop section, and in a fancy padded laptop case (or bag or whatever the word is—arg). I essentially have double padding, and I have had a good experience with this padding and previous laptops. This time, however, even simply putting the backpack down, was enough force to dent and eventually completely crush the empty corners next to the hinges. I had to manually repair the corners very often, but wasn't able to prevent damage to the hinges and stripping the threads holding the hinges in place. No other laptop, even ones much cheaper, has ever presented me with this problem, and it is extremely frustrating that the laptop isn't designed to be even mildly rugged.
- Faulty motherboard and bad quality-control. The laptop I bought had two M.2 NVMe slots, with only one occupied. I was planning to add one of my existing SSDs into the second slot. The second slot, however, did not work. This is such an easy thing to test before shipping it, that it really left a bad taste in my mouth.
- Faulty part and known issue. After about two weeks of using my laptop, the touchpad started malfunctioning. I looked the issue up, and, well and behold, this was a well known issue with this specific laptop. I contacted support and the problem remained unsolved. System76 released and continued selling a laptop with a known, unsolvable issue. This was the final blow, and I totally lost trust in the company after experiencing this.
Forgive the shitty writing, I'm doing this in my phone.
Hope I was able to help, kind regards.
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Mostly it boils down to three categories:
- Case build quality. This seems a be a frequent issue among System76 laptops; in my case (no pun intended), the laptop case was very badly made and easily broke. I carry my device around very much, always in my backpack, which has a padded laptop section, and in a fancy padded laptop case (or bag or whatever the word is—arg). I essentially have double padding, and I have had a good experience with this padding and previous laptops. This time, however, even simply putting the backpack down, was enough force to dent and eventually completely crush the empty corners next to the hinges. I had to manually repair the corners very often, but wasn't able to prevent damage to the hinges and stripping the threads holding the hinges in place. No other laptop, even ones much cheaper, has ever presented me with this problem, and it is extremely frustrating that the laptop isn't designed to be even mildly rugged.
- Faulty motherboard and bad quality-control. The laptop I bought had two M.2 NVMe slots, with only one occupied. I was planning to add one of my existing SSDs into the second slot. The second slot, however, did not work. This is such an easy thing to test before shipping it, that it really left a bad taste in my mouth.
- Faulty part and known issue. After about two weeks of using my laptop, the touchpad started malfunctioning. I looked the issue up, and, well and behold, this was a well known issue with this specific laptop. I contacted support and the problem remained unsolved. System76 released and continued selling a laptop with a known, unsolvable issue. This was the final blow, and I totally lost trust in the company after experiencing this.
Forgive the shitty writing, I'm doing this in my phone.
Hope I was able to help, kind regards.
What were the interactions with support like each time?
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Thinkpad t480, they can be found pretty cheap second hand, then install libreboot.
Can be upgraded with 64 GB of ram and a 4K screen.So that's why everyone recommends the T480 over the T580.
The T580 doesn't have a libreboot build.
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Hi everyone, I use Linux on all my machines since a decade. Unfortunately my laptops are getting older and I will probably have to change them soon. Which Laptops would you recommend me to buy in 2025 a part Librem?
I don't have a high budget but I'm still looking for something relatively recent. I looked on H-node but it seems that there are not a lot of recent things.
Thinkpad X1 Carbon if you're swimming in money and want the lightest possible laptop, Thinkpad T14 if not.
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So that's why everyone recommends the T480 over the T580.
The T580 doesn't have a libreboot build.
Up until very recently the t480 didnt either
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Hi everyone, I use Linux on all my machines since a decade. Unfortunately my laptops are getting older and I will probably have to change them soon. Which Laptops would you recommend me to buy in 2025 a part Librem?
I don't have a high budget but I'm still looking for something relatively recent. I looked on H-node but it seems that there are not a lot of recent things.
Thinkpad t480 with libreboot from minifree
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Up until very recently the t480 didnt either
Brb gonna go libreboot my sister's t580 when that comes out
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Brb gonna go libreboot my sister's t580 when that comes out
You would probrally have to wait a very long time, keep in mind not all features (ex: Thunderbolt 3) are working on the t480. In addition I dont think the t580 is even supported by coreboot yet.
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Do elaborate
It was a few years ago so I can't really comment on newer versions. But I recall the plastic bottom coming away from the top more and more over time. They don't manufacture their own laptops, so they are kinda stuck relying on a third party. (Clevo, I think.)
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I've got a galago pro that's a little over five years old now, and I'm still pretty happy with it.
That's good, they might have improved. Mine didn't last a year, but I think it was an earlier version.
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Hi everyone, I use Linux on all my machines since a decade. Unfortunately my laptops are getting older and I will probably have to change them soon. Which Laptops would you recommend me to buy in 2025 a part Librem?
I don't have a high budget but I'm still looking for something relatively recent. I looked on H-node but it seems that there are not a lot of recent things.
Best is Framework in every regard. Works 100%, great Linux support, specify exactly what you want and it's fully repairable. (They're also by far the most satisfying machine to unbox, given you have to plug it all together yourself)
Lenovo and Dell are okay, in my experience. The odd thing but generally fair quality hardware and reasonably compatible. (Thinkpad quality isn't what it used to be, so don't pay a premium thinking it'll last, Lenovo are trading on its past glories)
Avoid HP - shoddy flimsy things now, and with a lot of bespoke drivers (graphics and audio, plus function buttons in particular)
There's quite a lot of random-branded Chinese laptops around now. I've no direct experience of them, but I imagine they're exactly how you'd expect them to be. Cheap, tailored for the OS they ship with, but will probably work to some degree. Linux is past its initial hardware problems (and to be fair, hardware is problematic now)
There's another thread that's a few years old, but still contains some useful info - such as "Check the Arch Wiki"
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Hi everyone, I use Linux on all my machines since a decade. Unfortunately my laptops are getting older and I will probably have to change them soon. Which Laptops would you recommend me to buy in 2025 a part Librem?
I don't have a high budget but I'm still looking for something relatively recent. I looked on H-node but it seems that there are not a lot of recent things.
NovaCustom: Coreboot, Linux support, customizable, spare parts.
I have no personal experience, but their products seem nice, though expensive.
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Best is Framework in every regard. Works 100%, great Linux support, specify exactly what you want and it's fully repairable. (They're also by far the most satisfying machine to unbox, given you have to plug it all together yourself)
Lenovo and Dell are okay, in my experience. The odd thing but generally fair quality hardware and reasonably compatible. (Thinkpad quality isn't what it used to be, so don't pay a premium thinking it'll last, Lenovo are trading on its past glories)
Avoid HP - shoddy flimsy things now, and with a lot of bespoke drivers (graphics and audio, plus function buttons in particular)
There's quite a lot of random-branded Chinese laptops around now. I've no direct experience of them, but I imagine they're exactly how you'd expect them to be. Cheap, tailored for the OS they ship with, but will probably work to some degree. Linux is past its initial hardware problems (and to be fair, hardware is problematic now)
There's another thread that's a few years old, but still contains some useful info - such as "Check the Arch Wiki"
I've used ThinkPads for ages and it's very true they have become more and more ordinary as the years go by, but I recently got given a high spec Dell for a new job and it's been very disappointing. In particular the keyboard is terrible to the point that on business trips I bring an external keyboard with me. I also sorely miss a trackpoint, but to many people that is not an issue.
I was also surprised that I miss the ThinkPad ability to open up 180°.
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I think hibernate is a missing function - I've never tried it though. Here's a good write-up on the pros/cons and potential issue depending on your use case :
https://www.anuragrao.site/blog/05-asahi-linuxthat's a fantastic writeup and i wished something like it existed for all laptops; thanks for sharing it.
i've been meaning to purchase a new windows laptop to understand what the linux experience is like for most people today; but i've learned that i've been so spoiled from buying linux only laptops with on-par performance with windows that the prospect of paying so much money for something with that's very likely to be subpar compared to windows makes me hesitate.
writeups like this would make it easier for me to make an informed decision and i understand why they don't exist for most windows laptops; i just wished it did.
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that's a fantastic writeup and i wished something like it existed for all laptops; thanks for sharing it.
i've been meaning to purchase a new windows laptop to understand what the linux experience is like for most people today; but i've learned that i've been so spoiled from buying linux only laptops with on-par performance with windows that the prospect of paying so much money for something with that's very likely to be subpar compared to windows makes me hesitate.
writeups like this would make it easier for me to make an informed decision and i understand why they don't exist for most windows laptops; i just wished it did.
Agreed! Knowing what I was getting myself into was the only reason I even bought my MacBook. One thing not mentioned in that write-up is that if you increase your swap file size to offset the limited RAM it's surprisingly quick still, I assume due to a fast nvme drive. For my use case it's perfect. I'm even able to run some LLMs using Ollama that don't otherwise work with 8gb of memory.
For Windows machines I've found the Linux experience has vastly improved over the years. It seems that most mass-market hardware is functional right of the box.
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Agreed! Knowing what I was getting myself into was the only reason I even bought my MacBook. One thing not mentioned in that write-up is that if you increase your swap file size to offset the limited RAM it's surprisingly quick still, I assume due to a fast nvme drive. For my use case it's perfect. I'm even able to run some LLMs using Ollama that don't otherwise work with 8gb of memory.
For Windows machines I've found the Linux experience has vastly improved over the years. It seems that most mass-market hardware is functional right of the box.
i think that, that's the highest testament to all the work that's been put into linux; it works ok on anything and i wish that laptops didn't cost so much that paying for "ok" (instead of perfect) didn't hurt so much.
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especially in the Apple space
Offtopic, we are discussing linux laptops.
With Framework its 5 screws
Aw gee, then Framework wins! With Focus IR16 its nine phillips screws...
OK I had a great weekend not thinking about this thread (Yes I know it's not been the weekend for a couple of days now, it was extended), so I'm going to write one more message on this and then just leave it as is.
My main issue is that you straight up said the upgradeability is a scam. It's clear from this thread you've never worked in repair or had to upgrade a consumer-grade laptop from the last 10 years - which is fine but you shouldn't go throwing around such harsh phrases as "scam" for it. Framework has a legitimately good product that could feasibly be the last laptop you ever buy - for example, their most recent refresh of the Framework 13 mainboard will work in the original chassis, despite numerous design revisions over the last 5 years. Very few other devices in the space, even those designed to be upgraded, can be brought up to the newest version with just a mainboard replacement (this is one of my biggest issues with FairPhone, but that's not really related to the topic at hand). Similarly, the new 12" is more easily upgraded than ever with the swap to pogo pins on the keyboard rather than a ribbon cable for the keyboard. I truly think I could give my mother a Framework and she would be able to keep it up-to-date without any input from the members of my family who have repair experience.On this topic:
Offtopic, we are discussing linux laptops
The Asahi Linux project is nothing to sneeze at, and some of the most competent Linux users I know are on either an Intel or M-whatever Mac. Being an Apple device does not exclude it from being a Linux laptop, though I would never personally recommend them to a user, new or old.
On this because I forgot to address it:
I hope my suggestion of KFocus IR16 is not discounted because of my opinions on framework
It does look like a good laptop, and I think you should have separated your comments out because now your actually pretty decent recommendation is going to be buried because it was paired with an unrelated and fairly ignorant take.
nine phillips screws…
Credit where credit is due, I would have like phillips, but I do also understand the use case for torx on the Framework (plus it comes with a screwdriver, which fixes the main "who has a torx driver?" issue with torx). Either way, I'm not looking to discount the potential reparability or upgradeability of the IR16, I don't have one and can't weigh in there, If your position had been "This laptop manages to actually be more upgradeable than the Framework, whilst also being built for Linux first", there would be no problem there (provided you could back that claim up), but outright calling it a scam? Come on man...
Long and short, no, I would not call the upgradeability of the Framework a "marketing scam". Thus far, a Framework laptop 13 built the day they released 5 years ago could be not only continually used and repaired for those 5 years, but also brought up-to-date with the latest hardware with relatively little user effort in comparison to similarly sized and spec'd consumer laptops, and without needing to buy a whole new device - you can just "ship of Theseus" the thing. Note that when I say "hardware", I don't just mean the fun buzzword-y hardware like CPU and RAM, but also things like keyboards, speakers, the screen, and other similar components that a user is less likely to think about wanting to improve at the time of purchase, but would otherwise be hurting for newer versions of 5+ years down the line.
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OK I had a great weekend not thinking about this thread (Yes I know it's not been the weekend for a couple of days now, it was extended), so I'm going to write one more message on this and then just leave it as is.
My main issue is that you straight up said the upgradeability is a scam. It's clear from this thread you've never worked in repair or had to upgrade a consumer-grade laptop from the last 10 years - which is fine but you shouldn't go throwing around such harsh phrases as "scam" for it. Framework has a legitimately good product that could feasibly be the last laptop you ever buy - for example, their most recent refresh of the Framework 13 mainboard will work in the original chassis, despite numerous design revisions over the last 5 years. Very few other devices in the space, even those designed to be upgraded, can be brought up to the newest version with just a mainboard replacement (this is one of my biggest issues with FairPhone, but that's not really related to the topic at hand). Similarly, the new 12" is more easily upgraded than ever with the swap to pogo pins on the keyboard rather than a ribbon cable for the keyboard. I truly think I could give my mother a Framework and she would be able to keep it up-to-date without any input from the members of my family who have repair experience.On this topic:
Offtopic, we are discussing linux laptops
The Asahi Linux project is nothing to sneeze at, and some of the most competent Linux users I know are on either an Intel or M-whatever Mac. Being an Apple device does not exclude it from being a Linux laptop, though I would never personally recommend them to a user, new or old.
On this because I forgot to address it:
I hope my suggestion of KFocus IR16 is not discounted because of my opinions on framework
It does look like a good laptop, and I think you should have separated your comments out because now your actually pretty decent recommendation is going to be buried because it was paired with an unrelated and fairly ignorant take.
nine phillips screws…
Credit where credit is due, I would have like phillips, but I do also understand the use case for torx on the Framework (plus it comes with a screwdriver, which fixes the main "who has a torx driver?" issue with torx). Either way, I'm not looking to discount the potential reparability or upgradeability of the IR16, I don't have one and can't weigh in there, If your position had been "This laptop manages to actually be more upgradeable than the Framework, whilst also being built for Linux first", there would be no problem there (provided you could back that claim up), but outright calling it a scam? Come on man...
Long and short, no, I would not call the upgradeability of the Framework a "marketing scam". Thus far, a Framework laptop 13 built the day they released 5 years ago could be not only continually used and repaired for those 5 years, but also brought up-to-date with the latest hardware with relatively little user effort in comparison to similarly sized and spec'd consumer laptops, and without needing to buy a whole new device - you can just "ship of Theseus" the thing. Note that when I say "hardware", I don't just mean the fun buzzword-y hardware like CPU and RAM, but also things like keyboards, speakers, the screen, and other similar components that a user is less likely to think about wanting to improve at the time of purchase, but would otherwise be hurting for newer versions of 5+ years down the line.
Can framework physically be upgraded? Yes. Is that practical, realistic, or something the makes sense for a typical user to actually do? No. See all the reasons I've already covered. To market the product based on that like it is something great that a user will expect to do and why they should buy it, is pretty scammy behavior.
Ir16 is as repairable and as easy as framework to replace/upgrade typical components as one should expect for a laptop, like RAM, hard drives, and network card. You remove 9 screws, the bottom panel come right off, and there is access to those components. I wouldn't expect to easily replace other parts of it or the entire mainboard, but again, no one is practically going to be doing that with framework either anyway.
an unrelated and fairly ignorant take
It's actually related (given all of the comments suggesting framework and parroting scam marketting points), and not ignorant, just realistic.
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I haven't used the XPS 13 personally but my experience and all my friends' experience with the XPS lineup is that despite their build quality, they're quite prone to failure. On my 15, the keyboard failed multiple times, as well as one of the fans and eventually one thunderbolt port, all within a span of 4 years.
They're beautiful machines that really should be quality, but in practice for some reason they haven't lasted for me. On the plus side though, Dell does at least offer service manuals, and lots of parts can be replaced by a user (on the 15 you can easily replace fans, RAM, SSDs, and with some work you can replace the top deck, display, and SD reader).
the keyboard failed multiple times, as well as one of the fans and eventually one thunderbolt port
Aw, dang. That sucks.
I'm typing this on a 2020 9310 and fortunately it's been pretty solid for me. Everything still works great. If anything, the palm rests are a little worn now, but that's about it. I also have an older XPS 9370 from 2018 that I keep as a spare and that's still working fine as well.
I haven't had to open up this laptop yet, but good to know there are service manuals. Thanks!
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the keyboard failed multiple times, as well as one of the fans and eventually one thunderbolt port
Aw, dang. That sucks.
I'm typing this on a 2020 9310 and fortunately it's been pretty solid for me. Everything still works great. If anything, the palm rests are a little worn now, but that's about it. I also have an older XPS 9370 from 2018 that I keep as a spare and that's still working fine as well.
I haven't had to open up this laptop yet, but good to know there are service manuals. Thanks!
I'm glad to hear yours have been holding up! Maybe my friends and I were just particularly unlucky.
The service manuals are available direct from Dell. For all the laptop's faults in my experience, I do appreciate that the SSDs are socketed, as are the RAM sticks on the 15. I do also appreciate that Dell sells replacement batteries (and they aren't glued in either!) as that's usually the first part to need a swap.
