In Germany, social media algorithms are pumping out huge amounts of far-right, pro-AfD content.
-
This post did not contain any content.
BAAAAANNNN THEEEEEEMMMM
Jesus fucking christ if I could go back in time and destroy the internet I would.
-
No need to thank me.
Ooh, I'm on trackercontrol - is adaway better or pretty much the same? I get ads on tiktok but not much else
-
Thatâs probably a fair and nuanced take. Perhaps some voters are swayed by TikTok ads. I suppose I believe this contingent is small and inconsequential, while the person above believes it is large and consequential. Perhaps my perception is coloured by my belief in the principles of free speech. I think it is essential to the functioning of a democracy, and for science. Free speech only exists if we protect speech we donât like. I grow very uneasy with equivocating over which political dissent is allowed. History has taught us that it is inevitably used for nefarious purposes eventually.
Popper's paradox of tolerance gives in my view pretty clear guidelines on what to protect and what not to tolerate. I believe that if we held onto that, fascism would have a much harder time.
I am not an expert on political science, so I don't know what the data tells us. The feeling I get from the world though is that the "impressionable" part is large enough to be consequential, in part because the "educated" part has already made up their minds.
It's also not sufficient to talk specifically about ads in tiktok without considering them in the wider context of online messaging, all of which is going to be systemically tailored to feed into the same fears and shame.
-
Popper's paradox of tolerance gives in my view pretty clear guidelines on what to protect and what not to tolerate. I believe that if we held onto that, fascism would have a much harder time.
I am not an expert on political science, so I don't know what the data tells us. The feeling I get from the world though is that the "impressionable" part is large enough to be consequential, in part because the "educated" part has already made up their minds.
It's also not sufficient to talk specifically about ads in tiktok without considering them in the wider context of online messaging, all of which is going to be systemically tailored to feed into the same fears and shame.
I.e
I disagree; free speech only exists if we specifically reject speech that aims to suppress free speech, while accepting speech we don't like but that doesn't aim to suppress.Can we do that? Can we draw the line? Why do so many believe there is no line to be drawn here?
-
No. Advertising exists to inform people about products and services. I do not subscribe to the notion that advertising can convince an average voter to vote against their best interests or contra to facts. Not in a Western society in which one can easily obtain the facts on the internet. This might be true in a country like China where the internet is tightly controlled and facts aren't easy to obtain.
In the West yes, people can obtain information on the internet.. But will they?
With declining economy and increasing disinfo, we don't have the time to sift through all the nonsense and obtain the actual facts. We might as well be living in China.
Did you follow what happened when a lot of American TikTok users made a trip to Rednote, a Chinese lifestyle app, to escape the looming ban earlier this year? The Americans discovered that a lot of what they knew about China was propaganda. The Chinese, to their horror, discovered what they knew about America, that they assumed to be propaganda, was correct..
-
No. Advertising exists to inform people about products and services. I do not subscribe to the notion that advertising can convince an average voter to vote against their best interests or contra to facts. Not in a Western society in which one can easily obtain the facts on the internet. This might be true in a country like China where the internet is tightly controlled and facts aren't easy to obtain.
No. Advertising exists to inform people about products and services. I do not subscribe to the notion that advertising can convince an average voter to vote against their best interests or contra to facts.
Then I commend for your idealism and congratulate you further for never having had anything to do with the cancerous growth on humanity's back that is the advertising industry. Keep it that way, you're already making the world a slightly better place by staying away. But no, it unfortunately does not work as you describe it. Spending X on advertising will increase your product sales by Y. That's the simple equation that justifies the industry's existence - and it works. Helping consumers (or voters) to make informed decisions does not factor into it.
Not in a Western society in which one can easily obtain the facts on the internet. This might be true in a country like China where the internet is tightly controlled and facts arenât easy to obtain.
You'd think that, yeah, it's absolutely natural! But then you could also consider that even though a rural forest warden in the Harz mountains may hold and be entitled to opinions on, for example, both bark beetle control and foreign policy, he'll only ever be able to make a truly informed decision on how one these issues should be handled in his best interest. For the other he'll substitute a lifetime of proficiency with whatever is available. And that may or may not be in his best interest.
That's how everybody does it. Spending your lifetime immersed in academic peace-and-conflict-studies for example might leave you to conclude that in a world of squabbling monkey tribes, transnational governing bodies with actual agency and legislative weight like the EU are, so far, humanity's greatest and most unlikely achievement and that maintaining, growing and strengthening them while further eroding national borders is a reliable (and possibly the only) way to ensure sustainable peace and prosperity for everybody. And after reaching that conclusion you'd think "Why is this not obvious to everybody? The facts are freely available." They are not. They are there, but in a complex world the cost to aquire them is high. Few will spend six months researching a tricky solution if they already got tricked by somebody else into believing that there's an easy solution. That's not on them though, that's on the trickster.
And now I'll probably dive into reading about bark beetles for a week because I've nerd-sniped myself. But that's another thing: I can just do that. I have a well-paying job and plenty of spare time. In other words, I have a high budget to spend on informed decisions. That's a bit of a tangent from the original topic but the gist is: If you wish to assume ideal voters then you quickly arrive at ultimate socio-economic and educational equality as a necessary prerequisite for a working democracy.
-
Wtf? How are there still people using this kinda garbage app? Lemmy and the fediverse is free, run and developed by volunteers. There are plenty of open source clients to choose from. Why in the fuck are people actively choosing to look at ads?
Fuck off for trying to control what people do. You're literally a subhuman like Spez for that. The whole point of defederation is a breakdown of centralised power, if your little dictator brain can't understand that then jump off a cliff with Reddit.
-
Ooh, I'm on trackercontrol - is adaway better or pretty much the same? I get ads on tiktok but not much else
I don't know about trackercontrol but I haven't seen a single ad in the last three years with Adaway.
-
Fuck off for trying to control what people do. You're literally a subhuman like Spez for that. The whole point of defederation is a breakdown of centralised power, if your little dictator brain can't understand that then jump off a cliff with Reddit.
Ayee i caught a nazi that uses nazi words
Seriously tho what are you even talking about?
-
This is the opposite of true. Appeasing the far right on immigration in other countries has led to disaster, every time. It's caused Brexit. It shifts the overton window., allowing their rhetoric to become mainstream, making it credible. You do not give these fucks an inch. You tell them no. They have to be fought as early as possible, because they're like bedbugs: if you allow them in you can't get rid of them.
Its not only that but how the left has been marginalised, as what happened with the labour party in the UK - Jeremy corbyn, the old leader who was actually left wing has been barred from the party, which he was part of for his whole life. A lifelong anti-racist on the correct side of every issue has been smeared as being a racist and that is now the mainstream 'truth'.
The only left wing party of any size in the UK now is the green party. The only alternatives to business as usual labour/conservatives (same thing) are the greens (seen mostly as a middle class protest vote) or reform.
Labour are definitely not for the working class anymore.
-
Apparently telling voters ânoâ is working terribly because right wing parties keep rising in polls. The evidence directly contradicts your claim. I donât see how Brexit was caused in any way by appeasement. If anything, Brexit was caused by derision and dismissal, leaving low socioeconomic voters in particular no other way to vent their anger than by burning an institution to the ground. If you donât give voters what they want they will vote extremists into power, or vote for extreme solutions out of spite.
Broadly speaking I find the argument of telling voters ânoâ in a democracy absurd and authoritarian.
Those voters had already been brainwashed by fascists into thinking destitute refugees and asylum seekers were at the root of their problems instead of offshore bank accounts stuffed with their taxes, which should have been used to pay for public services and housing.
-
Germany has enacted border controls to catch illegal immigrants, causing massive traffic jams. There are huge pushbacks kicking out thousands of refugees. Social services have been cut for refugees. All of that leads to a doubling of the right wing party, because migration ends up a topic in the media and the right wing is calling for everybody who is not 100% ethnic German to be kicked out of Germany, which is obviously insane.
Trump will give them space in Guantanamo bay
-
Ayee i caught a nazi that uses nazi words
Seriously tho what are you even talking about?
Wow you're incredibly, mind numbingly stupid. That explains a lot actually.
Keep being controlling and authoritarian and projecting your Nazism onto others, that's the Elon-Trump playbook you fascist fuck.
Let people live how they want or go kill yourself. Not a loss for anyone.
-
because all major parties in Germany are now tougher on immigration
But they arenât. Only the CDU has proposed some changes which they havenât implemented, and arenât expected to make any measurable impact. It is far too little, far too late.
Chancellor Scholz (SPD) is pushing a tougher stance on deportation.
To summarize:
AfD wants Nazi shit.
CDU/CSU, FDP and BSW are copying them on the topic, including demanding things that are obvious violations of European law and our constitution.
SPD is steering in that direction as far as possible without obviously breaking European law and our constitution.
The Greens are begrudgingly going along with it.
Among all the relevant parties here only the Left have a clear stance against all this madness.
-
Wow you're incredibly, mind numbingly stupid. That explains a lot actually.
Keep being controlling and authoritarian and projecting your Nazism onto others, that's the Elon-Trump playbook you fascist fuck.
Let people live how they want or go kill yourself. Not a loss for anyone.
Damn dude, how are you this mad over something like this?
-
In the West yes, people can obtain information on the internet.. But will they?
With declining economy and increasing disinfo, we don't have the time to sift through all the nonsense and obtain the actual facts. We might as well be living in China.
Did you follow what happened when a lot of American TikTok users made a trip to Rednote, a Chinese lifestyle app, to escape the looming ban earlier this year? The Americans discovered that a lot of what they knew about China was propaganda. The Chinese, to their horror, discovered what they knew about America, that they assumed to be propaganda, was correct..
I think you are falsely equating the choice not to seek out new knowledge with the belief that the adverts one sees on TikTok are all correct. I understand you believe the latter is a serious problem. I just do not. I have much more respect and faith in the average person.
-
Damn dude, how are you this mad over something like this?
Next thing you'll do is control women's body. Or will it be "immigrants" that are actually natives?
Ahh I know, you seem like the "not allowing people to vote" and "indentured slavery in for profit prisons" type of guy.
-
Next thing you'll do is control women's body. Or will it be "immigrants" that are actually natives?
Ahh I know, you seem like the "not allowing people to vote" and "indentured slavery in for profit prisons" type of guy.
This is really bad rage bait man. You at least have to engage with the topic at surface level if you wanna really make people mad.
-
Its not only that but how the left has been marginalised, as what happened with the labour party in the UK - Jeremy corbyn, the old leader who was actually left wing has been barred from the party, which he was part of for his whole life. A lifelong anti-racist on the correct side of every issue has been smeared as being a racist and that is now the mainstream 'truth'.
The only left wing party of any size in the UK now is the green party. The only alternatives to business as usual labour/conservatives (same thing) are the greens (seen mostly as a middle class protest vote) or reform.
Labour are definitely not for the working class anymore.
Couldn't agree with you more there.
For what it's worth, I'm a member of the TUSC (trade union socialist coalition) and the Socialist Party. You're right they're not big hitters, smaller even than the greens, but they are there, they stand for what I stand for, and they're just a great bunch of people that I love hanging out with. Also, unlike Lemmy, it's a tankie-free zone!
They're good at building a community and they are active every day on a small, local scale. -
Brexit happened because successive neoliberal governments ground low and middle class workers into dust. The two party system provided no alternative to voters than the two neoliberal governments. So when voters got the chance, they burned a cherished institution to the ground in protest. The issue here is decades of neglecting the wellbeing of citizens, and I'm dismayed that you would argue the issue might be actually listening to voters for the first time in generations. It is the exact opposite that is needed in the UK and around Europe.
The issue here is decades of neglecting the wellbeing of citizens
Yes? But what does this have to do with immigration? Do you genuinely believe that immigrants are what's causing the decay of citizen wellbeing and not as you say "neoliberal governments grounding low and middle class workers into dust"?
You see the issue but you side with the neoliberals on their preferred solution?
