Germans, please go to vote!
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[...] CDU ... I do think they might be stronger on the economy too
Hell no, their economic platform is basically "make believe".
Which party do you think would fare better and why? What I thought I knew about Merz is that he favors tax cuts and deregulation, which are definitely factors that Germany does need currently, but am I wrong about his views?
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From another fellow nordic, I honestly think any vote that is not for AFD or the pro-russian left is good enough at this point. I also think that CDU suck, but the important thing now is keeping fascism and Russian influence down. Other values are secondary for now.
I’d love to hear why they suck and who would be better and why. SPD track record has been driving Germany to the ground the past few years and the Green denuclearization policies are a disaster both in terms of economics and self-reliance. But of course those view are mine and may well be wrong, that’s just one viewpoint and perhaps poorly informed.
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I think CDU is pretty much middle to right ground of kokoomus and persu (both more right wing Finnish parties). And CDU has already taken some AfD point and looking like they would be happy to work with AfD, as kokoomus was first very anti persu, before last election where they set government together.
CDU with other partners would be "fine", but I think everyone's worried is they wanna stay in power and happily take AfD to guarantee their government position.I see, I think the consensus view here is quite left-leaning so maybe that’s where the negative view comes from. I’m more Kokoomus leaning myself so I don’t see it as bad but I can understand there’s a lot of polarization going on right now.
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CDU is only a smidge behind on AfD for being rightwibg shitheads, so no, CDU will be terrible.
I don’t necessarily see right leaning as bad automatically, but is there something extreme about the CDU or just that they’re right-leaning?
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Do you have a better system in mind? Care to expose it?
There is a lot of potential for digitalisation of the process even if you don't want the final vote to happen digital.
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I don’t necessarily see right leaning as bad automatically, but is there something extreme about the CDU or just that they’re right-leaning?
I don’t necessarily see right leaning as bad automatically
Eww
but is there something extreme about the CDU or just that they’re right-leaning?
Yes, they recently voted together with the Nazi party AfD on the topic of immigrants. Just the most recent example. Also the lead candidate for that party voted against making marital rape illegal.
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I think it's important nowadays to have faith in your government and democracy. You definitely should vote and you can be proud to help put your country into a direction you feel is best. This post seems to convey the message that you should vote to save democracy. This fear of the end of democracy might just end up increasing the influence of extreme political parties. In the US election both parties warned it will be the last vote.
German polls seem to indicate that CDU/CSU will be the strongest party and they will most likely not go into coalition with AfD, so the AfDs influence will not be much but they will probably get a lot of votes anyways. And even though I do not like the idea of a chancellor Merz due to him being very polarizing, I think Germany got this.
Don't panic
Should Americans have faith in their government and democracy?
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I don’t necessarily see right leaning as bad automatically
Eww
but is there something extreme about the CDU or just that they’re right-leaning?
Yes, they recently voted together with the Nazi party AfD on the topic of immigrants. Just the most recent example. Also the lead candidate for that party voted against making marital rape illegal.
Could you elaborate on what they voted for? I mean yes AFD is certainly not to be supported, but I suppose it depends on what was voted upon as well. And yeah obviously marital rape is a horrible thing to support, so point taken there for sure.
The eww comment is interesting, I understand if you’re not a fan of conservatism as I’m not a fan of that either, but in Europe generally speaking the problem with the left is that they’re socially liberal which is great but then their economic policies have generally lead to overtaxation and overregulation.
It would be great to have a truly liberal government with far less government spending and far more individual freedom and also individual responsibility. Militarily the left is also understandably cautious given the history, but right now a militarily strong Germany would be needed by the rest of Europe.
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Could you elaborate on what they voted for? I mean yes AFD is certainly not to be supported, but I suppose it depends on what was voted upon as well. And yeah obviously marital rape is a horrible thing to support, so point taken there for sure.
The eww comment is interesting, I understand if you’re not a fan of conservatism as I’m not a fan of that either, but in Europe generally speaking the problem with the left is that they’re socially liberal which is great but then their economic policies have generally lead to overtaxation and overregulation.
It would be great to have a truly liberal government with far less government spending and far more individual freedom and also individual responsibility. Militarily the left is also understandably cautious given the history, but right now a militarily strong Germany would be needed by the rest of Europe.
Could you elaborate on what they voted for?
How many immigrants are allowed into the country, basically.
the problem with the left is that they’re socially liberal which is great but then their economic policies have generally lead to overtaxation and overregulation.
The proposed tax plans from Die Linke is the only one with a net positive. Not my words but that of multiple economic institutions that looked at the tax plans from all the major parties.
Basically, if you make less than 7000€ per month then with Die Linke you will have more after taxes and if you have more than that/if you have a more than a million euros in property you will start paying your fair share. Right now in germany, there is only income tax but no property tax which is highly unfair to the vast majority of people working and living in Germany.It would be great to have a truly liberal government with far less government spending and far more individual freedom and also individual responsibility.
Nah, such a government would have failed hard during Covid. And with the world as it is right now (or from now on) pandemics become more and more likely. A liberal government would be terrible for that.
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Could you elaborate on what they voted for?
How many immigrants are allowed into the country, basically.
the problem with the left is that they’re socially liberal which is great but then their economic policies have generally lead to overtaxation and overregulation.
The proposed tax plans from Die Linke is the only one with a net positive. Not my words but that of multiple economic institutions that looked at the tax plans from all the major parties.
Basically, if you make less than 7000€ per month then with Die Linke you will have more after taxes and if you have more than that/if you have a more than a million euros in property you will start paying your fair share. Right now in germany, there is only income tax but no property tax which is highly unfair to the vast majority of people working and living in Germany.It would be great to have a truly liberal government with far less government spending and far more individual freedom and also individual responsibility.
Nah, such a government would have failed hard during Covid. And with the world as it is right now (or from now on) pandemics become more and more likely. A liberal government would be terrible for that.
Good, substantive comment. I disagree on the Covid part though, Sweden managed Covid wonderfully with quite liberal policies on that front. Don’t you worry with Die Linke that they’re quite pro-Russian or is that a mistaken view from me?
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Just go the vote, and make sure your family and friends go to give their votes.
I'm not local, I cannot vote over here, but had seen multiple times in modern times voter suppression has been a big deal, it's easier to make you not to bother to vote than change your mind who to vote.
I had worked brexit UK, where people voted it due they weren't happy about the PM. As it was good time to vote against him. Without thinking what brexit actually was. So use your voice by voting. What do you wish the future of country will be in this new era.
I know German has issues, as every Europe union contries. If the problems are easy to solve they would have been solved already, don't belive one tag line promises.
I'm just wanna say, as a fellow reddit user. Just go to vote.
Geht wählen ihr Luschen!
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as an American. vote like your life depends on it.
because it does.
not only that, make sure that none of your voting locations are using starlink internet access.
We had electronic voting, but it was gone as fast as it came. I voted electronic once in a local election in the early 2000s
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Good, substantive comment. I disagree on the Covid part though, Sweden managed Covid wonderfully with quite liberal policies on that front. Don’t you worry with Die Linke that they’re quite pro-Russian or is that a mistaken view from me?
Die Linke is not Pro Putin or Pro Russia. The part of the party that was split off some time ago (Now called Bündniss Sarah Wagenknecht) was the Pro Russia part.
Can't speak on Sweden.
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I think it's important nowadays to have faith in your government and democracy. You definitely should vote and you can be proud to help put your country into a direction you feel is best. This post seems to convey the message that you should vote to save democracy. This fear of the end of democracy might just end up increasing the influence of extreme political parties. In the US election both parties warned it will be the last vote.
German polls seem to indicate that CDU/CSU will be the strongest party and they will most likely not go into coalition with AfD, so the AfDs influence will not be much but they will probably get a lot of votes anyways. And even though I do not like the idea of a chancellor Merz due to him being very polarizing, I think Germany got this.
Don't panicGiven Merz' right-wing rhetoric (incl. literally calling anyone who doth protest his behavior a "a green or leftist crackpot"; or pronouncing that "left-wing politics are over"), his playing-off of parts of society, his choleric antics, and his closeness to Maga-friendly figures like Spahn ... Yeah, no. Merz is danger.
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I think it's important nowadays to have faith in your government and democracy. You definitely should vote and you can be proud to help put your country into a direction you feel is best. This post seems to convey the message that you should vote to save democracy. This fear of the end of democracy might just end up increasing the influence of extreme political parties. In the US election both parties warned it will be the last vote.
German polls seem to indicate that CDU/CSU will be the strongest party and they will most likely not go into coalition with AfD, so the AfDs influence will not be much but they will probably get a lot of votes anyways. And even though I do not like the idea of a chancellor Merz due to him being very polarizing, I think Germany got this.
Don't panicWe're very sceptic about the rigidity of the so called firewall (the confession of the big parties, especially CDU/CSU to form a coalition with the neo nazis). The chancellor candidate Merz (aka Mr. Burns) already jackhammered it by voting together with AfD against migration. Just yesterday he denounced millions of people who are protesting since the beginning of 2024 against the move of politics to the far right by asking where they were when Walter Lübcke a CDU governour fighting for migrants was murdered by a nazi in 2019. They were protesting in the thousands and the Antifa was investigating the backgrounds of groups like hammerskins, combat 18 or NSU. Mr. Burns yesterday also called lefts and greens "Spinner" (crazies) and was rewarded with frenetic applause by the bavarians to whom he was holding his speech. There are a few CDU politicians saying out loud that the firewall is history and they should work together with AfD.
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Which party do you think would fare better and why? What I thought I knew about Merz is that he favors tax cuts and deregulation, which are definitely factors that Germany does need currently, but am I wrong about his views?
Random tax cuts are trickle-down economics, otherwise known as bullshit that only helps make the rich richer. Deregulating in the areas of environmental protection, climate change, consumer health and tax fraud area, as the CDU wants is just hostility against the people. What Merz also wants to do: double down on energy imports (oil, gas, and nuclear if his lucky stars align), and double down on old tech (ICE motors and gas boilers).
The current economic issues in Germany are caused by a fossilized export-oriented industries that have been outdone variously in terms of price, technology, and quality by Chinese competitors. Germany didn't have a plan but exported all its technology to China for some phenomenal two decades of growth. And Industry Captains were somehow surprised that all their Chinese JVs sucked up their technology, improved on it, and then sold it at half the price. Meanwhile, China had a pretty good plan, and has supported the solar, wind, battery, and EV technologies for over ten years. They may have overshot target a little bit though, as they appear to be learning that they are producing more of these goods than they can sell. But that creates the kind of market pressure that hurts German companies too.
Another issue is energy prices, and it's true that Germany is not the cheapest country country in that regard. However, relying on more expensive imported resources oil, gas, nuclear energy is exceedingly unlikely to help in that regard.
I will note that I am a Greens proponent. But I think the above reasoning makes some sense regardless.
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Random tax cuts are trickle-down economics, otherwise known as bullshit that only helps make the rich richer. Deregulating in the areas of environmental protection, climate change, consumer health and tax fraud area, as the CDU wants is just hostility against the people. What Merz also wants to do: double down on energy imports (oil, gas, and nuclear if his lucky stars align), and double down on old tech (ICE motors and gas boilers).
The current economic issues in Germany are caused by a fossilized export-oriented industries that have been outdone variously in terms of price, technology, and quality by Chinese competitors. Germany didn't have a plan but exported all its technology to China for some phenomenal two decades of growth. And Industry Captains were somehow surprised that all their Chinese JVs sucked up their technology, improved on it, and then sold it at half the price. Meanwhile, China had a pretty good plan, and has supported the solar, wind, battery, and EV technologies for over ten years. They may have overshot target a little bit though, as they appear to be learning that they are producing more of these goods than they can sell. But that creates the kind of market pressure that hurts German companies too.
Another issue is energy prices, and it's true that Germany is not the cheapest country country in that regard. However, relying on more expensive imported resources oil, gas, nuclear energy is exceedingly unlikely to help in that regard.
I will note that I am a Greens proponent. But I think the above reasoning makes some sense regardless.
Thanks, great reply! Strong argument overall, maybe the only major disagreement here is with nuclear energy. Here in Finland electricity is some of the cheapest in Europe and while it’s not entirely due to nuclear that is a key factor for us in self-reliance and energy security especially when you’re going down the renewable road, because you do need some kind of a stable backbone for days where solar and wind just don’t produce enough, at least until there are better storage options. There’s a huge need to optimize the energy mix with renewables because it’s unsustainable to have these massive price fluctuations currently and I don’t see many solutions currently that have more potential than Nuclear, especially if we can make SMR’s a reality. I am of course aware also that Nuclear by itself definitely isn’t a cheap way to produce electricity, but I believe especially SMR’s and other advancements can do a lot there.
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Should Americans have faith in their government and democracy?
The American system of democracy is fundamentally flawed and has been even before the Republican success in the election. In Germany, there are a variety of parties to vote for that vary across the political spectrum- there is a multi-party system, the American democracy is a decision between right and alt-right, a heavily skewed two party system. I see your point, but this is a false equivalency and a bad analogy
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Just go the vote, and make sure your family and friends go to give their votes.
I'm not local, I cannot vote over here, but had seen multiple times in modern times voter suppression has been a big deal, it's easier to make you not to bother to vote than change your mind who to vote.
I had worked brexit UK, where people voted it due they weren't happy about the PM. As it was good time to vote against him. Without thinking what brexit actually was. So use your voice by voting. What do you wish the future of country will be in this new era.
I know German has issues, as every Europe union contries. If the problems are easy to solve they would have been solved already, don't belive one tag line promises.
I'm just wanna say, as a fellow reddit user. Just go to vote.
It is done. 🧞
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The American system of democracy is fundamentally flawed and has been even before the Republican success in the election. In Germany, there are a variety of parties to vote for that vary across the political spectrum- there is a multi-party system, the American democracy is a decision between right and alt-right, a heavily skewed two party system. I see your point, but this is a false equivalency and a bad analogy
What analogy?
The comment I replied to mentioned USA.
