Was anybody else just burned by the Tor Browser flatpak?
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cross-posted from: https://futurology.today/post/4000823
And by burned, I mean "realize they have been burning for over a year". I'm referring to a bug in the Tor Browser flatpak that prevented the launcher from updating the actual browser, despite the launcher itself updating every week or so. The fix requires manual intervention, and this was never communicated to users. The browser itself also doesn't alert the user that it is outdated. The only reason I found out today was because the NoScript extension broke due to the browser being so old.
To make matters worse, the outdated version of the browser that I had, differs from the outdated version reported in the Github thread. In other words, if you were hoping that at least everybody affected by the bug would be stuck at the same version (and thus have the same fingerprint), that doesn't seem to be the case.
This is an extreme fingerprinting vulnerability. In fact I checked my fingerprint on multiple websites, and I had a unique fingerprint even with javascript disabled. So in other words, despite following the best privacy and security advice of:
- using Tor Browser
- disabling javascript
- keeping software updated
My online habits have been tracked for over a year. Even if Duckduckgo or Startpage doesn't fingerprint users, Reddit sure does (to detect ban evasions, etc), and we all know 90% of searches lead to Reddit, and that Reddit sells data to Google. So I have been browsing the web for over a year with a false sense of security, all the while most of my browsing was linked to a single identity, and that much data is more than enough to link it to my real identity.
How was I supposed to catch this? Manually check the About page of my browser to make sure the number keeps incrementing? Browse the Github issue tracker before bed? Is all this privacy and security advice actually good, or does it just give people a false sense of security, when in reality the software isn't maintained enough for those recommendations to make a difference? Sorry for the rant, it's just all so tiring.
Tor "installed" via non-flatpak updates via the same manual mechanism, so it's no worse than the non-flatpak. The flatpak is just the installer. Also, the point of tor is not to avoid fingerprinting, it's to blend in. You are no more tracked by Reddit than you would be with up to date tor. A publicly traded company is not going to actively try to exploit your browser with a hack to fingerprint you extra via an exploit. You should never use tor for 1-1 you things comingled with anything you don't want associated with you. That's why there's an easy to use new identity button. Tor is not magic, its on YOU to engage in best practices or not.
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cross-posted from: https://futurology.today/post/4000823
And by burned, I mean "realize they have been burning for over a year". I'm referring to a bug in the Tor Browser flatpak that prevented the launcher from updating the actual browser, despite the launcher itself updating every week or so. The fix requires manual intervention, and this was never communicated to users. The browser itself also doesn't alert the user that it is outdated. The only reason I found out today was because the NoScript extension broke due to the browser being so old.
To make matters worse, the outdated version of the browser that I had, differs from the outdated version reported in the Github thread. In other words, if you were hoping that at least everybody affected by the bug would be stuck at the same version (and thus have the same fingerprint), that doesn't seem to be the case.
This is an extreme fingerprinting vulnerability. In fact I checked my fingerprint on multiple websites, and I had a unique fingerprint even with javascript disabled. So in other words, despite following the best privacy and security advice of:
- using Tor Browser
- disabling javascript
- keeping software updated
My online habits have been tracked for over a year. Even if Duckduckgo or Startpage doesn't fingerprint users, Reddit sure does (to detect ban evasions, etc), and we all know 90% of searches lead to Reddit, and that Reddit sells data to Google. So I have been browsing the web for over a year with a false sense of security, all the while most of my browsing was linked to a single identity, and that much data is more than enough to link it to my real identity.
How was I supposed to catch this? Manually check the About page of my browser to make sure the number keeps incrementing? Browse the Github issue tracker before bed? Is all this privacy and security advice actually good, or does it just give people a false sense of security, when in reality the software isn't maintained enough for those recommendations to make a difference? Sorry for the rant, it's just all so tiring.
The only way of getting Tor browser is through Tor project website
Dont go download anything from anywhere else, dont matter if its flatpak snap, deb, whatever
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This seems like something that Flatpak should be able to handle though. Afaik Mullvad Browser never had this issue. Flatpaks also have numerous advantages, like automatically handling desktop shortcuts.
I'd like to add that you can setup desktop shortcuts pretty easily for Mullvad and TOR browser manual installs. For TOR browser simply run this after opening a terminal in the folder it was extracted to:
./start-tor-browser.desktop --register-appSame thing should work for mullvad.
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never knew that
There might not be problems with other packaging but the point here is to not trust anything other than the official sources for maximum privacy I believe.
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This seems like something that Flatpak should be able to handle though. Afaik Mullvad Browser never had this issue. Flatpaks also have numerous advantages, like automatically handling desktop shortcuts.
Normally there shouldn't be a problem with packaging but Tor documentation recommends it like that to ensure security and authenticity. Even though it's self-updating, they also recommend to delete and re-install it time to time, instead of just updating.
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cross-posted from: https://futurology.today/post/4000823
And by burned, I mean "realize they have been burning for over a year". I'm referring to a bug in the Tor Browser flatpak that prevented the launcher from updating the actual browser, despite the launcher itself updating every week or so. The fix requires manual intervention, and this was never communicated to users. The browser itself also doesn't alert the user that it is outdated. The only reason I found out today was because the NoScript extension broke due to the browser being so old.
To make matters worse, the outdated version of the browser that I had, differs from the outdated version reported in the Github thread. In other words, if you were hoping that at least everybody affected by the bug would be stuck at the same version (and thus have the same fingerprint), that doesn't seem to be the case.
This is an extreme fingerprinting vulnerability. In fact I checked my fingerprint on multiple websites, and I had a unique fingerprint even with javascript disabled. So in other words, despite following the best privacy and security advice of:
- using Tor Browser
- disabling javascript
- keeping software updated
My online habits have been tracked for over a year. Even if Duckduckgo or Startpage doesn't fingerprint users, Reddit sure does (to detect ban evasions, etc), and we all know 90% of searches lead to Reddit, and that Reddit sells data to Google. So I have been browsing the web for over a year with a false sense of security, all the while most of my browsing was linked to a single identity, and that much data is more than enough to link it to my real identity.
How was I supposed to catch this? Manually check the About page of my browser to make sure the number keeps incrementing? Browse the Github issue tracker before bed? Is all this privacy and security advice actually good, or does it just give people a false sense of security, when in reality the software isn't maintained enough for those recommendations to make a difference? Sorry for the rant, it's just all so tiring.
How do you even access Reddit from Tor? I always see the message saying that my attempt was blocked by "Network Security".
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There might not be problems with other packaging but the point here is to not trust anything other than the official sources for maximum privacy I believe.
Ohh okay I had to use a mirror to download it if that's fine.
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The only way of getting Tor browser is through Tor project website
Dont go download anything from anywhere else, dont matter if its flatpak snap, deb, whatever
The only thing they offer is bare source?
I like they've just given up on trying to understand things like filesystem layouts and fucking systemd - which is cool - but now they own dependency hell and inconsistent installs in trade.
Nah. I'll get a package where I can confirm the contents, check the sigs, reproduce the build and then deploy it with its dependencies in a reliable, verifiably-consistent process.
https://rhel.pkgs.org/9/epel-x86_64/tor-0.4.8.14-1.el9.x86_64.rpm.html
Sources, sigs, signed BoM. Wheeee!
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Ohh okay I had to use a mirror to download it if that's fine.
Mirrors are fine since the official website is not accessible on every country. They just suggest verifying the file signature.
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Mirrors are fine since the official website is not accessible on every country. They just suggest verifying the file signature.
Ohhh okay should've done that but prob later
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How do you even access Reddit from Tor? I always see the message saying that my attempt was blocked by "Network Security".
switch to the old.reddit.com site (onion version tends to work more often), and if that doesn't work, switch Tor circuits (the option is under Tor Browser menu bar, I have it pinned to the top-bar for convenience)
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I'd like to add that you can setup desktop shortcuts pretty easily for Mullvad and TOR browser manual installs. For TOR browser simply run this after opening a terminal in the folder it was extracted to:
./start-tor-browser.desktop --register-appSame thing should work for mullvad.
Wow nice. Still not really friendly to beginners, since this is something they would have to dig into documentation to find, but it's good to know
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Tor "installed" via non-flatpak updates via the same manual mechanism, so it's no worse than the non-flatpak. The flatpak is just the installer. Also, the point of tor is not to avoid fingerprinting, it's to blend in. You are no more tracked by Reddit than you would be with up to date tor. A publicly traded company is not going to actively try to exploit your browser with a hack to fingerprint you extra via an exploit. You should never use tor for 1-1 you things comingled with anything you don't want associated with you. That's why there's an easy to use new identity button. Tor is not magic, its on YOU to engage in best practices or not.
the point of tor is not to avoid fingerprinting, it’s to blend in
Fingerprinting and blending in are the same thing. You can't blend in if you have a unique fingerprint. The Tor Project goes to great lengths to mitigate fingerprinting using their custom browser, it's one of their main goals. It's pointless to use Tor with a regular browser that doesn't have those protections, because websites can just identify you by your fingerprint even when you are obfuscating your IP using Tor.
You are no more tracked by Reddit than you would be with up to date tor
Browser version is a major part of your fingerprint. It's in your user agent, but that can be faked so there are additional mechanisms that check what javascript features your browser supports to get a more reliable read of your browser version. Use https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/ to learn more.
And fingerprinting is not a hack or exploit. It's something that websites use for tracking, just like cookies. And I'm almost certain that Reddit fingerprints users to detect ban evasions.
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It was collapsed for me at first, and buried under a lot of other comments, but a workaround is mentioned here. Unfortunately, that didn't seem to work for me, but deleting the Flatpak and deleting all associated data, and then reinstalling it, I think did the trick.
You are right I should have linked directly to the workaround, sorry. Glad you got it sorted out though.
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Wow nice. Still not really friendly to beginners, since this is something they would have to dig into documentation to find, but it's good to know
Yeah. I just found out about it by accident when I ran it with the
--helpflag. -
The only thing they offer is bare source?
I like they've just given up on trying to understand things like filesystem layouts and fucking systemd - which is cool - but now they own dependency hell and inconsistent installs in trade.
Nah. I'll get a package where I can confirm the contents, check the sigs, reproduce the build and then deploy it with its dependencies in a reliable, verifiably-consistent process.
https://rhel.pkgs.org/9/epel-x86_64/tor-0.4.8.14-1.el9.x86_64.rpm.html
Sources, sigs, signed BoM. Wheeee!
I think it has some sort of binary already in the archive. There's a "start-tor-browser.desktop" you just double click to launch the browser.
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The only way of getting Tor browser is through Tor project website
Dont go download anything from anywhere else, dont matter if its flatpak snap, deb, whatever
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You are right I should have linked directly to the workaround, sorry. Glad you got it sorted out though.
No worries, thanks again!
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cross-posted from: https://futurology.today/post/4000823
And by burned, I mean "realize they have been burning for over a year". I'm referring to a bug in the Tor Browser flatpak that prevented the launcher from updating the actual browser, despite the launcher itself updating every week or so. The fix requires manual intervention, and this was never communicated to users. The browser itself also doesn't alert the user that it is outdated. The only reason I found out today was because the NoScript extension broke due to the browser being so old.
To make matters worse, the outdated version of the browser that I had, differs from the outdated version reported in the Github thread. In other words, if you were hoping that at least everybody affected by the bug would be stuck at the same version (and thus have the same fingerprint), that doesn't seem to be the case.
This is an extreme fingerprinting vulnerability. In fact I checked my fingerprint on multiple websites, and I had a unique fingerprint even with javascript disabled. So in other words, despite following the best privacy and security advice of:
- using Tor Browser
- disabling javascript
- keeping software updated
My online habits have been tracked for over a year. Even if Duckduckgo or Startpage doesn't fingerprint users, Reddit sure does (to detect ban evasions, etc), and we all know 90% of searches lead to Reddit, and that Reddit sells data to Google. So I have been browsing the web for over a year with a false sense of security, all the while most of my browsing was linked to a single identity, and that much data is more than enough to link it to my real identity.
How was I supposed to catch this? Manually check the About page of my browser to make sure the number keeps incrementing? Browse the Github issue tracker before bed? Is all this privacy and security advice actually good, or does it just give people a false sense of security, when in reality the software isn't maintained enough for those recommendations to make a difference? Sorry for the rant, it's just all so tiring.
I would never install Tor via the flatpak or whatever. Just download from the website, run ./start-tor-wgatever.sh and in the browser, check for updates. It's the official source.
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I would never install Tor via the flatpak or whatever. Just download from the website, run ./start-tor-wgatever.sh and in the browser, check for updates. It's the official source.
It sounds like most other users install it that way too. Which surprises me, since I had thought the Linux community had started to move towards Flatpaks. But anybody who searched Flathub for Tor Browser, would have seen the flatpak with the Tor Project author listed as verified, and there would be no indication that this was in fact an unstable installation.
