'For too long, Apple has operated a walled garden around its products': The EU forces Apple to open its closed system to third parties
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Honestly, fuck security. I want every app on my phone to phone home to other malicious app stores with all my personal data. I want them to install backdoor VPNs that tunnel all my data to a man in the middle. I want them to allow me to jailbreak my phone so I can install permanent rootkits, that way adversaries can reload their botnets even after I factory reset my phone.
I kinda agree with your sentiment. If I'm spending $1000+ on a device, I want to truly own it and do whatever I want with it. Unfortunately people have gotten very used to companies like Apple telling them what they can and can't do, and Apple artificially restricting things (like giving first-party apps special permissions that third-party apps can't get) so they make more money. It's not great that this is so widespread now. At least there's people like Louis Rossman that still care about these things.
If the manufacturer wants to have an "easy mode" where they limit what can be done, like what Apple does today, that's totally fine. Just don't force it onto everyone.
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Steam doesn't belong in that list because you're free to use whatever game store you want on a PC. No computers are limited to only using Steam.
Not even their own hardware, the steam deck, was in any way closed down. Quite the opposite actually.
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This is very bad. Their walled garden is perfect for the young, elderly, and stupid.
Hopefully some competitor arrives to replace them.
Apple is free to sell phones where walled gardens are allowed. You're also free to stay in the walled garden, Apple lied to you.
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Honestly, fuck security. I want every app on my phone to phone home to other malicious app stores with all my personal data. I want them to install backdoor VPNs that tunnel all my data to a man in the middle. I want them to allow me to jailbreak my phone so I can install permanent rootkits, that way adversaries can reload their botnets even after I factory reset my phone.
As a new user of GrapheneOS, I have yet to see the difference with regular Android except that it's way more secure.
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I thought that “walled-garden” was for security and privacy in the case of Apple? I always relied on them for that.
Its primary utility is shoring up their image as the brand where 'everything just works' and op/interop is a thoughtless zero friction process. Compromise that and you lose normie, bigtime. So everyone gets locked in...and you get the walled prison basketball court
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Not even their own hardware, the steam deck, was in any way closed down. Quite the opposite actually.
And now SteamOS is being used in other platforms, so you can use the software on other hardware vendors if you like
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You still have the freedom to not use alternative app stores.
I don’t get the argument. It’s not like you are forced to buy iPhones, there a plenty of brands available.
According to recent data iOS is 30% of the market while android is almost 70% (in Europe).
I used android phones for most of my life. I tried to install alternative OS few time but my banking apps all refused to execute. There were always plenty of apps that were forbidden to remove (Facebook, Samsung applications,…). Then 4 years ago I bought an iPhone. No preinstalled shitty news app, Facebook, etc. Was even able to uninstall the default apps that I do not use. I feel to have much more freedom than before. Apple is not perfect by any means but it’s far from being a prison. -
As a new user of GrapheneOS, I have yet to see the difference with regular Android except that it's way more secure.
GrapheneOS is how Android should be, but its a solitary experience versus iOS, which harnesses the interplay with other apple devices.
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I don’t get the argument. It’s not like you are forced to buy iPhones, there a plenty of brands available.
According to recent data iOS is 30% of the market while android is almost 70% (in Europe).
I used android phones for most of my life. I tried to install alternative OS few time but my banking apps all refused to execute. There were always plenty of apps that were forbidden to remove (Facebook, Samsung applications,…). Then 4 years ago I bought an iPhone. No preinstalled shitty news app, Facebook, etc. Was even able to uninstall the default apps that I do not use. I feel to have much more freedom than before. Apple is not perfect by any means but it’s far from being a prison.From a market regulation view it is more of a prison than Android.
An example is apps have to use WebKit. That's right Firefox for iOS doesn't use Gecko and Google Chrome for iOS doesn't use Chromium. - That's the walled garden. -
I don’t get the argument. It’s not like you are forced to buy iPhones, there a plenty of brands available.
According to recent data iOS is 30% of the market while android is almost 70% (in Europe).
I used android phones for most of my life. I tried to install alternative OS few time but my banking apps all refused to execute. There were always plenty of apps that were forbidden to remove (Facebook, Samsung applications,…). Then 4 years ago I bought an iPhone. No preinstalled shitty news app, Facebook, etc. Was even able to uninstall the default apps that I do not use. I feel to have much more freedom than before. Apple is not perfect by any means but it’s far from being a prison.as long as you don't want to do some crazy unthinkable thing, like, say, getting notifications on your smartwatch that isn't made by Apple
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I kinda agree with your sentiment. If I'm spending $1000+ on a device, I want to truly own it and do whatever I want with it. Unfortunately people have gotten very used to companies like Apple telling them what they can and can't do, and Apple artificially restricting things (like giving first-party apps special permissions that third-party apps can't get) so they make more money. It's not great that this is so widespread now. At least there's people like Louis Rossman that still care about these things.
If the manufacturer wants to have an "easy mode" where they limit what can be done, like what Apple does today, that's totally fine. Just don't force it onto everyone.
Thats the thing. I buy apple products for that sole reason rather than use a GrapheneOS device.
I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted. I want it backing up to the cloud with end to end encryption while syncing with all my other devices. I want it to airplay to my TV. I want it to be a webcam for my macbook. I want it to hold some health data while keeping it out of prying eyes. I want iMessage to end to end encrypt my text messages to other iMessage users.
Why bother an iOS device if thats not what you're after? Their products are some of the most secure devices, with the longest support life. I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone.
Listen, I LOVE grapheneOS. Its just not a complete ecosystem yet.
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Thats the thing. I buy apple products for that sole reason rather than use a GrapheneOS device.
I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted. I want it backing up to the cloud with end to end encryption while syncing with all my other devices. I want it to airplay to my TV. I want it to be a webcam for my macbook. I want it to hold some health data while keeping it out of prying eyes. I want iMessage to end to end encrypt my text messages to other iMessage users.
Why bother an iOS device if thats not what you're after? Their products are some of the most secure devices, with the longest support life. I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone.
Listen, I LOVE grapheneOS. Its just not a complete ecosystem yet.
I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted.
That's totally fine... But it should be optional, so that people who want to take full advantage of their device (instead of being restricted) can do so.
I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone
There's no reason you couldn't hold an Android phone for just as long. Samsung and Google both offer 7 years of security updates.
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I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted.
That's totally fine... But it should be optional, so that people who want to take full advantage of their device (instead of being restricted) can do so.
I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone
There's no reason you couldn't hold an Android phone for just as long. Samsung and Google both offer 7 years of security updates.
We can agree to disagree. I don't think apple devices should be opened up at all. If you want an opened up device, look for a different manufacturer.
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Finally. We all about to see better prices and more features. If this ends in lower app store fees, its a massive win for every app company in the world!
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It’s both of those things. Just like Sony, Xbox, Nintendo, Steam, etc. They take 30% in exchange for exposure, security, and a reliable platform. It’s a trade off. Worth it to some, not to others.
Of those steam is the only one that doesn't force you to buy software through them on their own hardware. Obviously they would like you to, but you are free to buy elsewhere.
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Hopefully this actually leads to something lasting, but I don't have high hopes considering how Europe is getting dragged atm
I mean the EU made them allow app stores but Apple made a complete mockery of them by requiring their rubber stamp and charging "only" 27% fee and the EU is just letting them get away with that so yeah, I have little faith.
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I mean the EU made them allow app stores but Apple made a complete mockery of them by requiring their rubber stamp and charging "only" 27% fee and the EU is just letting them get away with that so yeah, I have little faith.
There isn't really any getting away with.
If what Apple does is within the law then the EU can't prevent it. I'm sure somebody is looking into preventing Apple from doing it, but propper legislation takes time. -
I thought that “walled-garden” was for security and privacy in the case of Apple? I always relied on them for that.
You can certainly argue that more control makes iPhones safer, since its harder to get malicious software on the phone. But Apple is also abusing their control for their own gain.
You could also argue that locking you in a room would be safer than letting you walk freely out in the world. But I don't we want that either.
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We can agree to disagree. I don't think apple devices should be opened up at all. If you want an opened up device, look for a different manufacturer.
What's the disadvantage of being able to open it up? That's the part I don't quite understand. It could be hidden under an "expert" or "full featured" mode or something like that.
I think we're going to eventually reach a point where the European iPhone is far superior to and more innovative than the American one, just because of the fact that you can do a lot more with it. I'm actually curious as to if it determines EU vs US based on where you buy the phone, based on country for the account, or based on something else entirely.
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I don’t get the argument. It’s not like you are forced to buy iPhones, there a plenty of brands available.
According to recent data iOS is 30% of the market while android is almost 70% (in Europe).
I used android phones for most of my life. I tried to install alternative OS few time but my banking apps all refused to execute. There were always plenty of apps that were forbidden to remove (Facebook, Samsung applications,…). Then 4 years ago I bought an iPhone. No preinstalled shitty news app, Facebook, etc. Was even able to uninstall the default apps that I do not use. I feel to have much more freedom than before. Apple is not perfect by any means but it’s far from being a prison.My Android phone (Realme) allowed me to uninstall most pre-installed bloatware.
