The thing about Europe: it’s the actual land of the free now
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The tongue is firmly in the cheek.
I hope so, because in a decade of subscribing to that magazine I've often seen variants of the "worker rights are bad for the Economy" pitch in their articles and they were dead serious about it.
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Well, 13h in with now being 5:30 PM in most of Europe and judging by the number of upvotes and downvotes on your post (13 to nil), I would like to think that your expectations on the lack of awareness of Racism in Europe by lemmie crowd that frequents c/Europe, have not been proven.
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Immigrants are getting deported for those wrong views, though, so… yeah.
Ah, good old Germany and their good old ways...
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I don’t understand this conclusion from what i said. It should be obvious that such decision have to be made by a court, before there is action taken by the executive.
And that's what's happening: Noone has been deported.
Or do you want the administration to first ask a court each time before it does anything? Like, speeding ticket, ask a court first before telling the driver they have to pay up? Someone dumps garbage on the street, ask a court before issuing a fine and billing the perpetrator for the cleanup?
All you'd do with that is grind state action to a halt. And you wouldn't change a thing, worse, you'd get courts used to rubber-stamping everything unread.
Those are the most blatant examples of despotic actions by the executive,
No, they aren't, the extradition to Hungary is a way worse case. That you can't see this makes me conclude that you're blinded by campism. You're not judging the cases by what happened, legally, how big the fuck-up was, but by whether the people affected were closer to your pet political case.
And that’s what’s happening: Noone has been deported.
They have been threatened with deportation and only by demanding a court to review the decision they got a temporary reprieve, that is if the executive doesn't choose to ignore the court like they did with the deportation to Hungary. And it is already in the structure of the argument of the administration that they do not want to wait until a court has ruled on any criminal charge, or even let the investigators decide whether there is any reasonable evidence to even make a criminal charge in some of the cases.
This is at the core about taking away matters from courts, where the question of criminality or danger is subject to evidence and neutrality, rather than political affiliation and motivation.
Nowhere did i say that the deportation to Hungary is not worse. I said in case of repression against people standing up for Palestinian rights it is the most blatant, the most obvious. I recommend you to read through your past comments. They have been quite aggressive and filled with strawman arguments. I think by pointing out how despotic the deportation to Hungary is, you yourself acknowledge that Germany has a problem with growing despotism. Which brings us back to the very beginning of all of this discussion. The freedoms and rights granted by the EU and their member states are under serious attacks in particular in Germany. So instead of praising places like Germany as some beacon of freedom and rights, when the current political powers for the most part are eager to limit the very same freedoms and rights.
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Yep, we agree. In Western Europe I was thinking of Portugal and Eastern Europe the Baltics etc.
FYI, Spain's dictatorship lasted for another 2 years after the one in Portugal fell.
Also in my experience both Spain and Portugal tend to be tought of as Southern Europe, even though geographically they are indeed to the West of almost all of Europe (Iceland is further to the West, whilst the Republic of Ireland and Great Britain are at around the same longitude)
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And that’s what’s happening: Noone has been deported.
They have been threatened with deportation and only by demanding a court to review the decision they got a temporary reprieve, that is if the executive doesn't choose to ignore the court like they did with the deportation to Hungary. And it is already in the structure of the argument of the administration that they do not want to wait until a court has ruled on any criminal charge, or even let the investigators decide whether there is any reasonable evidence to even make a criminal charge in some of the cases.
This is at the core about taking away matters from courts, where the question of criminality or danger is subject to evidence and neutrality, rather than political affiliation and motivation.
Nowhere did i say that the deportation to Hungary is not worse. I said in case of repression against people standing up for Palestinian rights it is the most blatant, the most obvious. I recommend you to read through your past comments. They have been quite aggressive and filled with strawman arguments. I think by pointing out how despotic the deportation to Hungary is, you yourself acknowledge that Germany has a problem with growing despotism. Which brings us back to the very beginning of all of this discussion. The freedoms and rights granted by the EU and their member states are under serious attacks in particular in Germany. So instead of praising places like Germany as some beacon of freedom and rights, when the current political powers for the most part are eager to limit the very same freedoms and rights.
They have been threatened with deportation and only by demanding a court to review the decision they got a temporary reprieve
And the same happens when you get a traffic ticket.
And it is already in the structure of the argument of the administration that they do not want to wait until a court has ruled on any criminal charge
Criminal. Criminal. The administrative court will decide on whether or not the deportation will happen before the criminal case is finished. The administration, of course, is within its rights to have an opinion on that. So the affected people. But the administrative court will decide because this is an administrative matter.
This is at the core about taking away matters from court
No, it isn't. I explained it like five times now. At this point you're either deliberately misunderstanding the issue, deliberately misrepresenting the issue, or actually dense.
I said in case of repression against people standing up for Palestinian rights it is the most blatant, the most obvious.
Not Oury Jalloh? Not Gustl Mollath? Do you even have sufficient knowledge of administrative failings and fuckups to make such a call.
I think by pointing out how despotic the deportation to Hungary is, you yourself acknowledge that Germany has a problem with growing despotism.
...you don't. Or you'd know that it's been like this for decades. Actually got better, pre-RAF was atrocious and let's not talk about WWII and before.
Go ahead, argue the Palestinian case, I applaud that. But stop shooting yourself in the foot, hurting the Palestinian case, by making bullshit arguments that are both factually incorrect and tone-deaf AF. Just because it makes you feel good in the moment or something like that doesn't mean that you're helping. A bad thing done in the name of a good thing is still a bad thing. Dunno maybe read some Kant or something.
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Ask how many Berliners are worried about Swabians taking over the city and you'll hear a similar answer, including the "stranger in their own city" part. You'd also be surprised how much friction there is between people with Turkish background and fresh Arab arrivals.
Or, differently put: You can't just pick out a random signifier, such as "Muslim", and expect the numbers to tell you much. In particular because you'll hear the answer "yeah let's not invite any more Muslims" from many Muslims. Those being Turks saying "we don't want Arabs and their clan structures here, don't want Germany to become bumfuck Anatolia".
It's also important to distinguish anti-immigration vs. anti-immigrant sentiment. Especially in the East with its overall low percentage of foreigners (which, yet, grew much faster than it ever did in the west so people had less time to get used to it), it's often "we don't want more" in unison with "we really like Hasan he's the only one raising the village's flag on Sunday, the only place where you can go, and he makes really good food".
Lastly, you don't have to do your own analysis, here. You jumped from "feels like a stranger in their own country when seeing a Turkish marriage", which is an a priori, subjective, judgement, to "is racist". That's not how things work, people are perfectly capable of feeling one way at one time and then say "well that was one time and I'm happy for the couple". What you're looking for are the numbers for (geschlossenes) rechtsextremes Weltbild ((closed) right-extreme worldview) as well as measurements of various forms of gruppenbezogene Menschenfeindlichkeit (group-focussed enmity).
Or, differently put: You can't just pick out a random signifier, such as "Muslim", and expect the numbers to tell you much.
It's a good shorthand that allows us to see what, say, Germans think of an archetypical Other.
It's also important to distinguish anti-immigration vs. anti-immigrant sentiment. Especially in the East with its overall low percentage of foreigners (which, yet, grew much faster than it ever did in the west so people had less time to get used to it), it's often "we don't want more" in unison with "we really like Hasan he's the only one raising the village's flag on Sunday, the only place where you can go, and he makes really good food".
My dude don't try to convince me that "ban Muslim immigration" and "we really like Hasan" are compatible statements except in a "he's one of the good ones" kind of way. "We don't want more" can only come from someone who believes immigrants are a problem that needs to be solved.
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American obsession with money is weird when you think about it. Money is only useful when the human creativity, ingenuity, effort, etc. you want is for sale. Billionaires think their bunkers will save them after they make the world go to shit, but nobody is going to take care of these helpless bastards when there is nothing for their money to buy. Then there is the fact that money often ruins intrinsic motivation, which is why, for example, looking at the work of great artists and composers from the past, it’s clearly evident which works were commissioned vs. which ones were truly inspired work. A lot of open source software is inspired work that can be used without the limitations of paid software. Anyone using the arr stack with Jellyfin, for example, knows there’s no paid service that offers a superior experience. People with a loving and supportive family are wealthier than Elon Musk, who despite his net worth reeks of desperation for any superficial attention he can get. America is supposedly a “wealthy” country, but any country with a government that actually cares about its people and ensures they have a social safety net, clean food to eat without 1000 toxic additives, etc. is infinitely more wealthy than the USA.
When you look at GDP per hour worked then Western Europe is at about the same level as the US. It is just that Europeans work a lot less then Americans, hence they earn more money.
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Or, differently put: You can't just pick out a random signifier, such as "Muslim", and expect the numbers to tell you much.
It's a good shorthand that allows us to see what, say, Germans think of an archetypical Other.
It's also important to distinguish anti-immigration vs. anti-immigrant sentiment. Especially in the East with its overall low percentage of foreigners (which, yet, grew much faster than it ever did in the west so people had less time to get used to it), it's often "we don't want more" in unison with "we really like Hasan he's the only one raising the village's flag on Sunday, the only place where you can go, and he makes really good food".
My dude don't try to convince me that "ban Muslim immigration" and "we really like Hasan" are compatible statements except in a "he's one of the good ones" kind of way. "We don't want more" can only come from someone who believes immigrants are a problem that needs to be solved.
I won't try to convince you because you seem to be hanging onto a narrative in face of being given a thorough study of what you're interested in.
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Paywall? https://archive.is/Tq3KD
France should take the statue of liberty away from us tbh
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I hope so, because in a decade of subscribing to that magazine I've often seen variants of the "worker rights are bad for the Economy" pitch in their articles and they were dead serious about it.
I take your point. The economist is anti union and pro free trade, but the last 3 sentences of this particular columnist are anti Trump and spoken truthfully.
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France should take the statue of liberty away from us tbh
It’s now a monument to how things used to be
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Already was. While the us was occupied with cosplaying as freedom freaks and destroying countless democracies for the sake of freedom, europe actually became free.
It's a different idea of freedom. In the US it's about freedom to X, in the EU it's freedom from X.
For example, in the US you have the freedom to say just about anything you want. In the EU you're free from people making you unsafe by misinformation, lies, etc. In the US you're free to take pictures of anything you want that can be seen from the street. In Germany you're free from having pictures of your property posted online without your consent. The result is that Google's Street View covers everything in the US and almost nothing in Germany. In the US people or companies are free to take public information and hold onto it or publish it as they see fit without interference. In the EU, you're free from having that information out there forever beyond your control. You're free to demand that it be deleted under certain circumstances.
In the end, the European way is more about regulating things. It asks what kinds of things prevent people from living their lives freely and without worries, and tries to regulate those things. The American way is more about removing every regulation and rule possible and saying the end result is freedom so it must be good.
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American obsession with money is weird when you think about it. Money is only useful when the human creativity, ingenuity, effort, etc. you want is for sale. Billionaires think their bunkers will save them after they make the world go to shit, but nobody is going to take care of these helpless bastards when there is nothing for their money to buy. Then there is the fact that money often ruins intrinsic motivation, which is why, for example, looking at the work of great artists and composers from the past, it’s clearly evident which works were commissioned vs. which ones were truly inspired work. A lot of open source software is inspired work that can be used without the limitations of paid software. Anyone using the arr stack with Jellyfin, for example, knows there’s no paid service that offers a superior experience. People with a loving and supportive family are wealthier than Elon Musk, who despite his net worth reeks of desperation for any superficial attention he can get. America is supposedly a “wealthy” country, but any country with a government that actually cares about its people and ensures they have a social safety net, clean food to eat without 1000 toxic additives, etc. is infinitely more wealthy than the USA.
People with a loving and supportive family are wealthier than Elon Musk
And they'll never have to wonder if they're truly loved for themselves or because they're rich. At a certain level of wealth, you'll never know for sure if someone likes you for who you are vs. your wealth. At Elon's level of wealth, he can't even trust that his family is being honest with him.
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Paywall? https://archive.is/Tq3KD
I'm waiting for the haters to give negative comments about the title and article.
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I'm waiting for the haters to give negative comments about the title and article.
Look back at my posting history. There's no shortage of bad or dumb comments. But also a lot of good ones. I tend to focus on those.
Well reasoned responses, even if they don't agree, I read and engage with. -
I take your point. The economist is anti union and pro free trade, but the last 3 sentences of this particular columnist are anti Trump and spoken truthfully.
The Economist are about as pure Neoliberal as it gets, whilst Trump and his minions are Fascists which is an ideology were the State sits above Money in the hierarchy of power (though, unlike in Democracy, the State under Fascism is not controlled by citizens), which is exactly the opposite order of what Neoliberals defend, so they're enemies.
What they both agree, however, is that the common people with their vote should not control the highest power in the land.
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"hidden" racism in german is so awful. They be talking about some minority and how chill everything is and then comes a but,... and you just already know the discussions has gone to the dogs.
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It's a different idea of freedom. In the US it's about freedom to X, in the EU it's freedom from X.
For example, in the US you have the freedom to say just about anything you want. In the EU you're free from people making you unsafe by misinformation, lies, etc. In the US you're free to take pictures of anything you want that can be seen from the street. In Germany you're free from having pictures of your property posted online without your consent. The result is that Google's Street View covers everything in the US and almost nothing in Germany. In the US people or companies are free to take public information and hold onto it or publish it as they see fit without interference. In the EU, you're free from having that information out there forever beyond your control. You're free to demand that it be deleted under certain circumstances.
In the end, the European way is more about regulating things. It asks what kinds of things prevent people from living their lives freely and without worries, and tries to regulate those things. The American way is more about removing every regulation and rule possible and saying the end result is freedom so it must be good.
I think it's more that in Europe there's freedom for citizens, in the US there's freedom for corporations.
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Paywall? https://archive.is/Tq3KD
the bar for what is considered free now is just lower