AfD is the most popular party in Germany for the first time, with a record 26%
-
AfD is using fascist manipulation using propaganda (always putting immigrants and immigrant attacks in the spotlight) to gain power and discriminate immigrants even more, causing more retaliation which in turn makes people give the AfD even more power.
In a tolerant society we should not be tolerant of such intolerance.
I'm an American. I really hope the German masses can learn this lesson before it"s too late.
-
in most contexts here ive heard "liberal" used to describe neoliberalism rather then leftism or libertarianism (though I know many conservatives in the US use it as a catch all for the left)
I'm American and I use the term "liberal" specifically to refer to neoliberals. I'm probably in the minority, though, especially given Fox News and GamerGate.
-
Unfortunately, the other parties are very well taking up the Nazis' lies. The Nazis are playing the political establishment like a fiddle.
To stick with your example of the potato sack, the established parties do just jump the Nazi bandwagon and parrot their narrative in a less extreme manner, like "Illegal immigrants kicking over potato sacks is a severe problem, we need to protect our potato sacks by border controls and increased deportations."
Just as one AfD politician remarked last year, (after the election in Thuringia, if I recall right) the AfD is ruling without actually being in the government.
This reflects American politics as well.
-
This reflects American politics as well.
I think the problem can be summed up as poll driven politics.
It's a feedback loop, they do focus on a topic some opinion poll has shown to be somewhat popular, the resulting exposure increases popularity, which reflects in the polls, which leads to increased political focus on the topic...
-
One out every four people you meet being a literal nazi is tough tho
sadly, it's basically expected that about 15-30% of the population are far-right xenophobes. the question is how well they can be mobilized.
-
So their policy documents etc are lies? Based on what? Verifiable proof would be great. What is being misrepresented in there exactly?
Can you provide some of these quotes that go against their policies and confirm what youâre saying they want to do?
Ok so you do mean illegal immigrants. Can someone apply for asylum in Germany without illegally entering the country? A quick google shows that that is what the AfD are proposing - asylum seekers apply before entering the country. Germany isnât an island so that shouldnât be too difficult, and seems reasonable. What is the issue with only people who are granted asylum being allowed in?
So their policy documents etc are lies? Based on what?
Their policy documents are half-truths that point in a direction, their speeches in front of followers are often more to the point.
And these quote collections are really all over the German-language interwebs, e.g. https://www.watson.ch/international/rechtsextremismus/291420759-rechtsextremismus-in-der-afd-diese-21-zitate-sprechen-fuer-sich
And guess what kind of materials court proceedings against Afd would be based on? Quotes and overheard conversations.
Ok so you do mean illegal immigrants.
I don't. People aren't "illegal", unless you dabble in dehumanizing language.
Can someone apply for asylum in Germany without illegally entering the country?
No, with the
A quick google shows that that is what the AfD are proposing - asylum seekers apply before entering the country.
It's a fairly transparent proposal to remove the rights of asylum seekers for any kind of due process and remove any kind of oversight. Regular German judges, lawyers, civil-rights organizations will all be far away.
Some private operator will get rich off running an internment camp. An airline will get rich off the flights there.
"The refugee doesn't care at which border he dies, the Greek or German." - GĂŒnter Lenhardt, AfD
Germany isnât an island so that shouldnât be too difficult, and seems reasonable.
Germany is part of the EU, Germany is part of the Schengen agreement that is supposed to guarantee free movement within Europe, and Germany should help the EU as a whole succeed. The latter includes integrating refugees into the society.
large number of people who are not granted asylum just staying illegally, as the current situation in the USA shows.
How do people that just live and go to work hurt the system? (I.e. the vastest majority of undocumented and overstaying immigrants.)
Yeah, and the US is currently doing a bang-up job deporting family father of 3 with no priors while not getting ahold of people who actually are criminal. (Iirc, 90% of the nameless, supposed "worst of the worst" gang members recently from the US had no priors.)
Incidentally, on a much smaller scale, so is Germany: Deporting the easy people, the people who show up to appointments and live at their registered place of residence.
They try to deport illegals who have lived there for 13+ years without even attempting to get asylum, and everyone blows up at them saying they should just leave them alone.
Possibly because these people likely are a net positive to society, have built a life, have friends, have integrated to a degree, just normal humaning.
If someone wants to rent my property I donât let them stay in it while I process their application.
Cool story.
-
It's mostly East Germany. Communism's fuckups in that area are still causing suffering today.
Put looting the east via Treuhand on that list...
-
It's mostly East Germany. Communism's fuckups in that area are still causing suffering today.
Unfortunately, that's not the only reason. We have 16 BundeslÀnder (states). 5 of them are in the East. But they have hardly more inhabitants than Bavaria. So a lot of us in the "Real Germany" (the western states) are voting those AHs too.
-
I think the problem can be summed up as poll driven politics.
It's a feedback loop, they do focus on a topic some opinion poll has shown to be somewhat popular, the resulting exposure increases popularity, which reflects in the polls, which leads to increased political focus on the topic...
In America at least, this is as a direct result of corporate media and money in politics both controlling the narrative. None of this was naturally occurring.
-
its a few factors in play, one is the normalization of far-right policies by the other big parties (SPD, Greens, Union) and their inability to fix the damage caused by the financial crisis of 2008, the rise of anti-migrant beliefs in the german working class, and a few others
i think this video explains well the rise of the AfD in germany, at this point its only a matter of time until one or more parties decide to make a coalition with the AfD
nd their inability to fix the damage caused by the financial crisis of 2008
That's absolutely not it. Germany went through the crisis of 2008 like a breeze. In 2015 during the refugee crisis, Merkel decided to open our borders to all of the refugees. Before that, the AfD had below 10% of the voters on their side. But a huge chunk of the population did not agree to Merkel's refugee policies. That's when the AfD took off. And now we can't get rif of them
-
In America at least, this is as a direct result of corporate media and money in politics both controlling the narrative. None of this was naturally occurring.
Not that different in Germany. The biggest difference in the media landscape, difference, the pretty large public broadcasters aren't really a difference, because their governing bodies and leadership positions are stuffed with (ex) politicians and their relatives.
-
Not that different in Germany. The biggest difference in the media landscape, difference, the pretty large public broadcasters aren't really a difference, because their governing bodies and leadership positions are stuffed with (ex) politicians and their relatives.
Same thing here, but with basically every industry and not just news media. We call it the "revolving door" effect.
-
Same thing here, but with basically every industry and not just news media. We call it the "revolving door" effect.
The revolving door effect is separate from large political parties' influence on public broadcasters, but it exists, too. It, and many other forms of legalised corruption, has led to an erosion of trust in politicians and political institutions in which the Nazis of the AfD thrieve.
-
This post did not contain any content.
As a crimson lining, I hope the United State's decay will teach Germany to destroy the AfD and all other right wingers. They are a poison to civilization.
-
I've been watching AfD grow for years. They aren't the ruling party now, but will be soon enough. Maybe German democracy is strong enough to resist Fascism, maybe not. Only time will tell for sure.
Strongest Power doesnt mean ruling power here.
And they will not get into power unless the Union partys want to betrail all their voters even more than they have always been doing. Which will trigger a full on uprising.And even if they are in power the states can block almost everything they do. Germanys constitutional court also has lots of say and can stop things and isnt appointed by the partys unlike in the US
-
So their policy documents etc are lies? Based on what?
Their policy documents are half-truths that point in a direction, their speeches in front of followers are often more to the point.
And these quote collections are really all over the German-language interwebs, e.g. https://www.watson.ch/international/rechtsextremismus/291420759-rechtsextremismus-in-der-afd-diese-21-zitate-sprechen-fuer-sich
And guess what kind of materials court proceedings against Afd would be based on? Quotes and overheard conversations.
Ok so you do mean illegal immigrants.
I don't. People aren't "illegal", unless you dabble in dehumanizing language.
Can someone apply for asylum in Germany without illegally entering the country?
No, with the
A quick google shows that that is what the AfD are proposing - asylum seekers apply before entering the country.
It's a fairly transparent proposal to remove the rights of asylum seekers for any kind of due process and remove any kind of oversight. Regular German judges, lawyers, civil-rights organizations will all be far away.
Some private operator will get rich off running an internment camp. An airline will get rich off the flights there.
"The refugee doesn't care at which border he dies, the Greek or German." - GĂŒnter Lenhardt, AfD
Germany isnât an island so that shouldnât be too difficult, and seems reasonable.
Germany is part of the EU, Germany is part of the Schengen agreement that is supposed to guarantee free movement within Europe, and Germany should help the EU as a whole succeed. The latter includes integrating refugees into the society.
large number of people who are not granted asylum just staying illegally, as the current situation in the USA shows.
How do people that just live and go to work hurt the system? (I.e. the vastest majority of undocumented and overstaying immigrants.)
Yeah, and the US is currently doing a bang-up job deporting family father of 3 with no priors while not getting ahold of people who actually are criminal. (Iirc, 90% of the nameless, supposed "worst of the worst" gang members recently from the US had no priors.)
Incidentally, on a much smaller scale, so is Germany: Deporting the easy people, the people who show up to appointments and live at their registered place of residence.
They try to deport illegals who have lived there for 13+ years without even attempting to get asylum, and everyone blows up at them saying they should just leave them alone.
Possibly because these people likely are a net positive to society, have built a life, have friends, have integrated to a degree, just normal humaning.
If someone wants to rent my property I donât let them stay in it while I process their application.
Cool story.
Ok so you basically want unregulated immigration and think that any attempts to stop it is nazi-adjacent, or just straight up nazi behaviour.
people arenât âillegalâ
Way to argue in bad faith. People can be âillegal immigrantsâ which is what is being discussed. Illegal immigrants are immigrants that entered the country illegally. They broke the law. No one is saying a person is illegal. Thats the very definition of a bad faith argument, intentionally cherry picking words out of context and acting like they mean something that they donât so you can attack them and/or the poster.
Making a process for asylum seekers to get approval to enter the country before entering the country isnât âremoving rights of asylum seekers for due processâ in any way. Itâs giving them due process to enter the country rather than letting them in and then having to go through endless processes to remove them if theyâre not granted asylum. It makes sense. Itâs the smart thing to do. It fixes many issues with the current system. What rights do you think it takes away?
deporting father of 3 with no priors
You mean the MS-13 gang member who has lived in the country illegally for 13 years without any attempt to become a legal citizen, who had twice been ordered to be deported back to his home country, where he now is? That âMaryland fatherâ?
Like I said, your position is that all immigration should be legal. Thats a position alright, but itâs a very unpopular one that only the furthest of the far left advocate for. Itâs no wonder why you claim that a party who want to control immigration are Nazis and should be banned from becoming too popular.
Cool story
So you didnât get the point that was being made, or you have no way to refute it?
-
Also, the heads of most of the polling institutes are openly right leaning.
RTL and their head is more than just "right leaning"
Remember the call? "We have to do everything in our power to destroy the greens and spd. Help the FDP and our other ally"
Springer is such a huge problem. No one would be remorsed if the entire springer empire got sucked up by a black hole -
Honest question, what was wrong with the denazification that was carried out? Did they have any historical example to compare to?
The so called Schreibtisch Nazis werent punished eventhough they were just as part of the holocaust, helping it moving and working, as the once not in an office.
East germany, did it even worse imo. The soviets recruited not just scientists and some spies. They recruited Gestapo and SS members, helped them shred their past and unpunished recruited them for the SaSi.
Also not teaching it "our people did this and we have to make sure it doesnt happen again" but "we were the victims and didnt have anything to do with the nazis"And then add a butchered integration. Butchering and slaughtering the rest of wealth from east germany in the 90s. Fertal ground for those types of idiological spreaders that came from the west. And now we see their flower bloom...
And ugly smelling brown rotting rotfruit -
Put looting the east via Treuhand on that list...
Treuhand was a disgrace
-
I'm an American. I really hope the German masses can learn this lesson before it"s too late.
But you guys need to counter the hateful messaging against immigrants with an equally effective message against the people with power/money, otherwise, fascism is likely to win in the long run against neoliberalism [...]
This is exactly it. However, I am not too optimistic about centrist politicians/media/society coming to that conclusion. We are complacent and scared and would rather keep our heads in the sand and blame minorities instead of addressing the underlying structural issues.
