Looks like a pile of shit for easily-impressionable morons, but that's to be expected from framework.
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Lol. Are you nuts? Am I really supposed to sit here and list off what makes a great product for a great price?
Let's be real. You don't like how I criticized how people like you are getting taken for a ride so you're desperate to make it seem like it's not true.
The sooner you realize how you're being taken advantage of, the sooner you can start to do something about it.
Am I really supposed to sit here and list off what makes a great product for a great price?
I don't understand what you are asking for.
You don't have to be extensive, but... what would you want instead? A more traditional Mini PC? A dGPU instead? A different size laptop? Like, if you could actually tell Framework what you want, in brief, what would you say?
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Am I really supposed to sit here and list off what makes a great product for a great price?
I don't understand what you are asking for.
You don't have to be extensive, but... what would you want instead? A more traditional Mini PC? A dGPU instead? A different size laptop? Like, if you could actually tell Framework what you want, in brief, what would you say?
Fair enough.
I skimmed it for a few seconds, got a little bit ill at the $1100 starting price, and then it occurred to me: what is this for?
Wasn't frameworks whole thing about making modular laptops? What value are they bringing to the mini-ITX market? They're already modular. In fact, it looks like they're taking away customizability with soldered RAM.
You asked me what I want, and this is definitely what I don't want. If they wanted to make this product appealing to me, they'd have to lower the price and live more modest lifestyles with the more modest profit margins.
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Fair enough.
I skimmed it for a few seconds, got a little bit ill at the $1100 starting price, and then it occurred to me: what is this for?
Wasn't frameworks whole thing about making modular laptops? What value are they bringing to the mini-ITX market? They're already modular. In fact, it looks like they're taking away customizability with soldered RAM.
You asked me what I want, and this is definitely what I don't want. If they wanted to make this product appealing to me, they'd have to lower the price and live more modest lifestyles with the more modest profit margins.
This is ostensibly more of a workstation/dev thing. The integrated GPU is more or less like a very power efficient laptop 4070/4080 with unlimited VRAM, depending on which APU you pick, and the CPU is very fast, with desktop Ryzen CCDs but double the memory bandwidth of what even an 9800 X3D has. In that sense, it’s a steal compared to Nvidia DIGITs or an Apple M4 Max, and Mini PC makers alternatives haven’t really solidified yet.
I think Framework knows they can’t compete with a $900 Walmart laptop and the crazy bulk pricing/corner cutting they do, nor can they price/engineer things (with the same bulk discounts) at the higher end like a ROG Z13/G14.
So… this kinda makes sense to me.
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This is ostensibly more of a workstation/dev thing. The integrated GPU is more or less like a very power efficient laptop 4070/4080 with unlimited VRAM, depending on which APU you pick, and the CPU is very fast, with desktop Ryzen CCDs but double the memory bandwidth of what even an 9800 X3D has. In that sense, it’s a steal compared to Nvidia DIGITs or an Apple M4 Max, and Mini PC makers alternatives haven’t really solidified yet.
I think Framework knows they can’t compete with a $900 Walmart laptop and the crazy bulk pricing/corner cutting they do, nor can they price/engineer things (with the same bulk discounts) at the higher end like a ROG Z13/G14.
So… this kinda makes sense to me.
The integrated GPU is more or less like a very power efficient laptop 4070/4080 with unlimited VRAM
I'd love to see some benchmarks comparing the two. I don't believe that this integrated GPU is able to hold a candle to a laptop's 4070, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
As far as CPU speed goes, couldn't people simply choose whatever CPU they want when building their computer without paying the "framework tax"? Are you trying to claim there's something "special" about this CPU like the PS3's cell processor?
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The integrated GPU is more or less like a very power efficient laptop 4070/4080 with unlimited VRAM
I'd love to see some benchmarks comparing the two. I don't believe that this integrated GPU is able to hold a candle to a laptop's 4070, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
As far as CPU speed goes, couldn't people simply choose whatever CPU they want when building their computer without paying the "framework tax"? Are you trying to claim there's something "special" about this CPU like the PS3's cell processor?
Are you trying to claim there’s something “special” about this CPU like the PS3’s cell processor?
There is. It’s a 16-core desktop CPU kinda like Ryzen, but hooked up to an IO die with very fast (8533MHz) quad channel memory. It’s more like a small, power efficient threadripper CPU, if you want to look at it that way.
But that IO die has a 40 CU GPU (compared to 12 for the previous highest end IGP, or 8 for the Steam Deck), so yeah, somewhere in the ballpark of a 4070. Or maybe the 4060 at the lower end of SKUs.
But the real appeal isn’t “magic”: its like an Apple M Pro or Mac, a decent GPU hooked up to a huge pool of VRAM without having to pay freaking $4000+ for a Quadro or A100.
I’d buy it at the drop of a hat for workstation stuff. I also have some friends who want one as a home server, since it’s so powerful but power efficient, and more modular/repairable than some Chinese mini PC.
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Are you trying to claim there’s something “special” about this CPU like the PS3’s cell processor?
There is. It’s a 16-core desktop CPU kinda like Ryzen, but hooked up to an IO die with very fast (8533MHz) quad channel memory. It’s more like a small, power efficient threadripper CPU, if you want to look at it that way.
But that IO die has a 40 CU GPU (compared to 12 for the previous highest end IGP, or 8 for the Steam Deck), so yeah, somewhere in the ballpark of a 4070. Or maybe the 4060 at the lower end of SKUs.
But the real appeal isn’t “magic”: its like an Apple M Pro or Mac, a decent GPU hooked up to a huge pool of VRAM without having to pay freaking $4000+ for a Quadro or A100.
I’d buy it at the drop of a hat for workstation stuff. I also have some friends who want one as a home server, since it’s so powerful but power efficient, and more modular/repairable than some Chinese mini PC.
For $2000, you and your friends could be getting better hardware.
I'm sorry, this is a product for suckers. Anyone who buys this has more money than sense. It's just a fact of life.
It's okay if you don't realize this now, but hopefully one day you will. It's alright to be wrong and taken for a ride. We've all been there, including me. It's part of why I'm so keen on identifying bullshit like this now; I've seen it before and will continue to see it again.
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For $2000, you and your friends could be getting better hardware.
I'm sorry, this is a product for suckers. Anyone who buys this has more money than sense. It's just a fact of life.
It's okay if you don't realize this now, but hopefully one day you will. It's alright to be wrong and taken for a ride. We've all been there, including me. It's part of why I'm so keen on identifying bullshit like this now; I've seen it before and will continue to see it again.
I’m sorry, this is a product for suckers. Anyone who buys this has more money than sense. It’s just a fact of life.
There’s literally no better hardware. If I want 48Gb+ vram for $2000, it’s literally a bank of ancient, power sucking Tesla P40s or this… there’s nothing else because Nvidia/AMD processors gouge everything else. Heck, the used 24GB 3090 I bought has skyrocketed in price. I’d still be paying like $1500 for a bare minimum system.
I’d love to be wrong, but the GPU market is totally fucked.
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I’m sorry, this is a product for suckers. Anyone who buys this has more money than sense. It’s just a fact of life.
There’s literally no better hardware. If I want 48Gb+ vram for $2000, it’s literally a bank of ancient, power sucking Tesla P40s or this… there’s nothing else because Nvidia/AMD processors gouge everything else. Heck, the used 24GB 3090 I bought has skyrocketed in price. I’d still be paying like $1500 for a bare minimum system.
I’d love to be wrong, but the GPU market is totally fucked.
You're deluding yourself into thinking this iGPU is more powerful than it actually is.
Have you seen benchmarks comparing it to some of the competition?
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You're deluding yourself into thinking this iGPU is more powerful than it actually is.
Have you seen benchmarks comparing it to some of the competition?
Honestly I don’t even care if it’s half as fast as a 4070, that’s fast enough for me.
In workstation workloads, some stuff just will not run unless you have a ton of VRAM, and running slower is fine. Or in other cases, you get a gigantic speedup from the virtue of simply having tons of VRAM. That’s the value, not pure core speed compared to some 8GB GPU.
But I am not deluding myself, the core performance is in the ballpark of a laptop 7700S: https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-RX-8060S-Benchmarks-and-Specs.942049.0.html
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Honestly I don’t even care if it’s half as fast as a 4070, that’s fast enough for me.
In workstation workloads, some stuff just will not run unless you have a ton of VRAM, and running slower is fine. Or in other cases, you get a gigantic speedup from the virtue of simply having tons of VRAM. That’s the value, not pure core speed compared to some 8GB GPU.
But I am not deluding myself, the core performance is in the ballpark of a laptop 7700S: https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-RX-8060S-Benchmarks-and-Specs.942049.0.html
Honestly I don’t even care if it’s half as fast as a 4070, that’s fast enough for me.
You're the one who's trying to argue its power, and then when presented with a better option you say "it's fast enough for me."
Have you seen benchmarks comparing the performance of this iGPU to dGPUs?
Please share.
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Honestly I don’t even care if it’s half as fast as a 4070, that’s fast enough for me.
You're the one who's trying to argue its power, and then when presented with a better option you say "it's fast enough for me."
Have you seen benchmarks comparing the performance of this iGPU to dGPUs?
Please share.
See the notebookcheck page above.
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See the notebookcheck page above.
What benchmarks are you seeing that are telling you this is a better deal than the alternatives?
Come on, you can be specific so I don't have to assume what you're talking about.
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