6* months away now. If you're on 10, do you plan to upgrade? Make the jump to Linux?
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Can I play the windows version. Of Microsoft realms?
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The ads for apps, Xbox games, trial versions of Office preinstalled, the minesweeper and solitaire collection that are preinstalled but actually ad supported or non-free, depending on the region spotify/TikTok/Facebook also come preinstalled, "Movies & TV", Bing/MS News...
I think all of those count as bloat. I haven't included Edge because I guess having a browser is a necessity, or copilot/cortana because you said "excluding AI features".
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Steam runs natively and uses proton for game compatibility, similar idea to wine but it's geared for games
It's pretty good. Most games will run, sometimes with a little jiggling to get it to work, although performance isn't quite as good (some games are particularly rough)
I'm technically dual booting, but I haven't launched Windows in almost a year, and there's only been a handful of games I passed on primarily because of support
I have a small laptop that I'm testing this stuff out on before I put together a new computer from parts I ordered before the tariffs took effect.
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But probably Windows will disable the possibillity to manipulate on kernel level either in the future.
Sort of, right?
We know Windows will continue cracking down on kernel module adds, since the Crowd strike disaster.
But I figure most anti-cheat will just shift to non-kernel and keep working.
Of course, at that point most anti-cheat of will then work under Proton, on Linux, too.
Which was maybe your point.
Okay, I don't think I added anything for you, but I'll leave this in case it helps someone reading along with us.
Watching you reason this out was fun
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Man, I really tried today to get Linux on my Framework laptop.
I can't believe how goddamn frustrating the experience has been, and I've dabbled in Linux for decades.
I try Mint. Install as a dual boot... Installation done. Reboot. Straight into Windows. Check partitions and nothing has changed.
Try again. All seems fine. Boot. Some error screen that won't let me get into Mint.
Do this like four more times with no luck.
Tried Ubuntu. No easy way to install as a dual boot unless I want to mess around with custom paritions. Also, GNOME sucks ass, but Ubuntu seems way more polished than Mint.
I did get mint on a mini PC I have running through my TV. But audio wasn't working, so that took a while to sort out. And the onscreen keyboard does nothing on the lock screen. So unpolished, and I have no idea why it's recommended "for beginners" when it feels unfinished.
With windows, there's no messing around. Everything just works. And I fucking hate that I feel forced to choose a miserable, hacky, terminal-based experience with countless hours of installing shit through commands... Or a smooth, reliable, easy one with bloatware and spying on the backend. Goddammit!
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I can't switch to Linux due to software requirements for work. On my personal computer I'm using Xubuntu for well over a decade, I didn't like the unity window manager of Ubuntu. I heard they changed to something else by now, but I can't be bothered to switch.
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Well my PC can't do windows 11, and upgrading is now impossible thanks to a certain someone. So yeah...
My 15 year old desktop also "couldn't do windows 11", but you can bypass whatever bullshit limitations Microsoft puts on the installation process. That computer has been running 11 for several years now without any issues at all. Rock solid.
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I'm a professional graphic designer that dumped Adobe years back and I've been able to keep working using open source design applications.
I mean, sure you can do this, but you have to also sympathize with the folks that have years if not decades of experience in a program/suite, and that experience is what they use to market themselves. Like, in a perfect world, everyone could make the switch to FOSS alternatives, but it's not so cut and dry for those who can't spend up to years of their personal time to just get back to being as efficient as they were with the other, just to not support a scummy company. I've been moving pretty much entirely over to FOSS for everything I do, but it's been years in the making, and substantial effort on my part. And I have it easy, since I work in software development. We in the FOSS community can't expect all others to do the same.
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SteamOS isn't going to be the "Windows killer" people think it'll be. I'm a massive Valve and Steam fan but SteamOS isn't any better than any of the other major distros when it comes to gaming.
I think it'll feel like pop os. Pretty much set up for gaming right out of the box, but anything deeper and you're forced to touch the terminal. What I do think it has going for it however is the publicity of Steam, plus a promise on Steam's part to continue to dump a bunch of resources in to making it a better experience. I'm not expecting mass migrations, but it will likely be what gets all the folks on the fence to switch over, at least among gamers
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The inability to easily turn off copilot and the hiding setting between 3 different menus was the thing that finally did me in. I know you can turn copilot off but I didn't like the idea that Microsoft could "accidentally" re enable their spyware on my system. To be clear I am not being hyperbolic I really do think that recall and copilot are spyware that is just Microsoft approved. And then there is one drive just being pain in the ass constantly.
Those all sound shitty - granted, I'm pretty sure I don't have Copilot on my system, but maybe it didn't ask me during the upgrade? Either way - my original point still stands: all of these seem just as bad as Win10 (to me, a person who barely used either).
Don't get me wrong, I'm really glad people are joining us on the Linux bandwagon, it just seems like the reasons for making the switch are almost arbitrary. Another way of putting it would be: "This is what finally pushed you over? 'Copilot'?"
Anyway, regardless, I'm happy that people are making better choices - regardless of the reasons for doing so!
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Obviously Linux is the correct choice but I fear most will simply continue to suck it up and update to W11.
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Where's that steam os release
If you want SteamOS there are plenty of options that are effectively the exact same thing but with a different name.
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Only semi-related: Why do they always show pictures of Gates when he hasn't been involved in MS in a long time? Why never Satya Nadella?
Optics or marketing, it's the same reason LLMs are all called AI.
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Linux doesn't support VR.
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Switch to Linux. As a big-time gamer, I did it last year and it’s been fantastic. Only issue is if you main games with root kit anticheat…but with enough momentum in Linux direction, game studios will be forced to abandon those dubious detection methods anyway.
The way I see the root kit anticheat situation is that because Valve has their own Linux based OS, these companies making anticheat are probably going to end up tailoring it to whatever kernel Valve (or whatever the biggest/most widely used distro made by a large game corporation) uses to ensure people aren't cheating.
With a kernel that can be swapped out for another with varying degrees of difficulty, why wouldn't they just tailor their work to whatever the biggest corporate game company supporter of Linux is using? If SteamOS (or any other distro made by maybe someone like EA, heaven forbid) ends up becoming what these anticheat devs see as the defacto Linux distro for gaming, I guarantee they'll probably just focus all their efforts on making sure SteamOS (or whatever it ends up being) works as best they can and hanging out everyone else to dry.
A real "Wanna run the latest CoD (or something similar) on your device? Make sure you use the kernel we say you have to use!" kinda situation is what I foresee happening.
There's also an OpenBSD song with a few lines of lyrics that I think could sum up what could (and sadly most likely will) happen, in metaphorical Odyssey kind of way:
Corporate monsters, many closing passages\ Tempting harpies\ 13 years of treachery
Though it's definitely going to be more than 13 years.
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Already transitioning. Been half doing it for ages. This'll just be the last bit.
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So, there are multiple ways of installing things. For GUI apps the standard way is flatpaks. Some non-GUI things are installed that way, but it's less common.
For CLI apps, homebrew is installed by default and it's recommended as a way to install CLI things.
The method I like for apps that have a lot of interdependencies is to use a distrobox. If you want a development environment where multiple apps all talk to each-other, you can isolate them on their own distrobox and install them however you like there.
I currently have a distrobox running ubuntu that I use for a kubernetes project. In that distrobox I install anything I need with apt, or sometimes from source. Within that kubernetes project I use mise-en-place to manage tools just for that particular sub-project. What I like about doing things this way is that when I'm working on that project I have all the tools I need, and don't have to worry about the tools for other projects. My base bazzite image is basically unchanged, but my k8s project is highly customized.
If you really want to, you can still install RPMs as overlays to the base system, it's just not recommended because that slows down upgrades.
More details here:
Awesome, thanks for the explanation! I'd been put off Bazzite and other immutable distros because I had seen threads saying you basically needed flatpak for everything, but it sounds like that's not true.
I don't need a project at the moment but I will give this a go once I am ready for one!
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Man, I really tried today to get Linux on my Framework laptop.
I can't believe how goddamn frustrating the experience has been, and I've dabbled in Linux for decades.
I try Mint. Install as a dual boot... Installation done. Reboot. Straight into Windows. Check partitions and nothing has changed.
Try again. All seems fine. Boot. Some error screen that won't let me get into Mint.
Do this like four more times with no luck.
Tried Ubuntu. No easy way to install as a dual boot unless I want to mess around with custom paritions. Also, GNOME sucks ass, but Ubuntu seems way more polished than Mint.
I did get mint on a mini PC I have running through my TV. But audio wasn't working, so that took a while to sort out. And the onscreen keyboard does nothing on the lock screen. So unpolished, and I have no idea why it's recommended "for beginners" when it feels unfinished.
With windows, there's no messing around. Everything just works. And I fucking hate that I feel forced to choose a miserable, hacky, terminal-based experience with countless hours of installing shit through commands... Or a smooth, reliable, easy one with bloatware and spying on the backend. Goddammit!
Yeah with Linux if it doesn't work you're often just screwed.
I can recommend a rolling release distro, having the latest and greatest can sometimes give you bugfixes that are critical for your setup. It can also break stuff but nothing a rollback won't fix.
Another reason to prefer rolling release is the upgrade path. For Ubuntu upgrading is just awful when you do any tinkering. I ran Kubuntu 20.04 for a while and because I had some custom package sources installed it wouldn't let me upgrade to 24.04. Nobody could help, and the package manager is awful it doesn't let you trace which packages are blocking the upgrade.
I'm kind of miffed that everyone is recommending mint as a starter distro because as soon as they start looking for guides on how to tinker there is a high chance they are going to make their system un-upgradable.
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Awesome, thanks for the explanation! I'd been put off Bazzite and other immutable distros because I had seen threads saying you basically needed flatpak for everything, but it sounds like that's not true.
I don't need a project at the moment but I will give this a go once I am ready for one!
Yeah, I only use flatpak for GUI apps that don't need any special handling. To be fair, that's a decent number of the things I use most often: Firefox, Thunderbird, Signal, Kodi, Discord, Gimp, VLC. I think it's also how I installed some themes for KDE / Plasma.
Console stuff I've either done in a distrobox using the conventions of that OS (apt for the Ubuntu one, DNF for the Fedora one), or I've used homebrew. But, I haven't used too much homebrew because I want my "normal" console to be as unchanged as possible.
There are a few things I've used distrobox-export to make available outside the distrobox.
It took me a little while to understand how you're supposed to think about the system, but now that I think I get it, I really like it. My one frustration is that there's an nVidia driver bug that's affecting me, and nVidia has been unable to fix it for a few months. I think I'd be in exactly the same situation with a traditional distro. The difference is that if they ever fix it, I'll have to wait a couple of weeks until the fix makes it to the Bazzite stable build. I suppose I could switch to Bazzite testing and get it within days of it being fixed instead of weeks. Apparently just use a "rebase" command and reboot. But, I'm hesitant to do that because other than the nVidia driver, everything's so stable.
