Are PC handhelds like Steam Deck really competitors for Switch 2?
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Yes everything is better on a handheld PC. But the Deck is not a very good handheld PC. It is priced to be at the same tier as contemporary handheld PCs like the Rog Ally, the Legion Go, The MSI claw, the GPD Win 4, but all those handheld PCs can play current AAA titles while the Steamdeck is so underpowered that it struggles to emulate PS3 games. There are more recent devices that can play the same catalog as the steamdeck but cost a lot less, are more portable, and are just better built like the Odin 2 or the Retroid Pocket 5. At this point I am not sure what the use case is for the deck anymore. Every thing that the Deck can do, there are other devices that do it better and for less money.
The Ally, Legion, Claw and Win 4 are all more expensive than the Steam Deck. The Odin 2 and Pocket 5 are not, but they don't run steam, so you can definitely not play all the same games as the steam deck
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Easily. Aside from the first party titles, there's literally no reason to get a Switch 2. Everything else is objectively better on a PC handheld (especially the Deck).
It's way too big for kids too.
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Is a pants really a competitor for clothing?
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Is a pants really a competitor for clothing?
Wouldn't the switch (locked down) be pants and pc handhelds (anything) be clothing?
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They won't be cheaper for long...
Sure they will, Steam has sales all the time
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I mean the hardware is at least decent. And they aren't shitting out another one because they aren't seeing the generation improvement in performance they wanted (its coming). If I buy a Steam Deck, I at least get capable hardware.
Nintendo last several generations of hardware are born anemic. They start behind where even close to the cutting edge is. Nintendo has long since gave up pushing any kind of interesting boundary with its hardware.
I can't just download "SwitchOS" and throw it on some non-anemic hardware to get a decent experience.
As much as people want to project onto Steam the idea that its a walled garden, its not. It is a cultivated garden, but its not walled off. You can enter and leave freely.
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I mean the hardware is at least decent. And they aren't shitting out another one because they aren't seeing the generation improvement in performance they wanted (its coming). If I buy a Steam Deck, I at least get capable hardware.
Nintendo last several generations of hardware are born anemic. They start behind where even close to the cutting edge is. Nintendo has long since gave up pushing any kind of interesting boundary with its hardware.
I can't just download "SwitchOS" and throw it on some non-anemic hardware to get a decent experience.
As much as people want to project onto Steam the idea that its a walled garden, its not. It is a cultivated garden, but its not walled off. You can enter and leave freely.
I legitimately thought you were talking about Nintendo hardware there for a while.
As far as we can tell the Switch 2 seems like it's a bit ahead of the Deck, which is on the low end of the current batch of PC handhelds anyway. I don't think the quality of hardware is the differentiating factor here, one way or the other. I also don't think "anemic" was what the Switch felt like at launch. It was somewhere between the Xbox 360 and the Xbox One, which was only slightly inadequate for a home console and incredibly bulky for a handheld in 2017. "Not pushing any interesting boundary" is somewhere between extremely opinionated and outright incorrect, quite frankly.
I have to say, it's a bit surprising to see all the hostility from... I don't know who this is. PC master race bros? Steam fanboys? You'd think that last group at least would have some fondness for the Switch, given it effectively invented the entire segment of modern hybrid handhelds. Not that I have a horse in that race, there are pros and cons of both, I own both and I think both are pretty great. The Deck effectively replaced the Switch on my rotation, then it got replaced by a Windows handheld and I assume the mix will lean slightly more towards the console end when then Switch 2 comes out, then swing back when newer PC handhelds come out. I am fine with that.
I find the last point interesting, though. What IS a "cultivated garden" platform? I don't know that I think of Steam in those terms at all. Steam is a software platform that just happens to be tied to someone else's hardware and OS and seems very unhappy about it. From the perspective of a PC user I think Steam's dominance is a problem. For one thing because my storefront of choice is GOG (screw DRM, thanks) and for another because the entire point of an open platform is competition. From the perspective of a console user Steam is... well, not that. It's a PC gaming thing, so I don't see it as direct competition in the fist place. Which I guess is why I'm more weirded out than anything else to see people taking sides this aggressively.
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Yes everything is better on a handheld PC. But the Deck is not a very good handheld PC. It is priced to be at the same tier as contemporary handheld PCs like the Rog Ally, the Legion Go, The MSI claw, the GPD Win 4, but all those handheld PCs can play current AAA titles while the Steamdeck is so underpowered that it struggles to emulate PS3 games. There are more recent devices that can play the same catalog as the steamdeck but cost a lot less, are more portable, and are just better built like the Odin 2 or the Retroid Pocket 5. At this point I am not sure what the use case is for the deck anymore. Every thing that the Deck can do, there are other devices that do it better and for less money.
This is exactly why we have these issues like we're dealing with with the Switch 2. Console gamers are only focused on hardware and exclusivity, they're not focused on the operating system of the device, the build quality of the product itself (including the ergonomics), nor do they care about the company that produces it beyond their basic fanboy tendencies.
Steam Deck's competitors might have slightly better hardware or a higher resolution, but none of them are right to repair friendly. None of them have custom software literally designed for the product, and none of them have the sort of ergonomics that the Steam Deck has. Not to mention the fact that Valve is an American company, which might not be important to everybody, but it is important to me. They're also a company that has proven themselves to be largely consumer-friendly.
While I'm not dissing anybody who does make the choice to go for an Ally or a Legion Go, the problem I have is that those devices are literally just another hardware company jumping on a band wagon. The Steam Deck completely revolutionized the way that we play on PC. Sure, it took inspiration from the original Switch. There's no question about that. But that doesn't mean that Valve was just jumping on a band wagon the way that ASUS and Lenovo are doing.
Valve literally spent years working with Linux developers on software that makes Linux gaming truly viable in order to create devices that allow you to run virtually any game on a handheld that you fully own, are allowed to put any game on (including games from other launchers, which they didn't have to allow) and you're fully allowed to self-repair it if any issues arise. Meanwhile, companies like ASUS treat their customers more like smartphone
suckerscustomers, not to mention the fact that they went the cheap and easy route of just using Windows, which isn't optimized for a device like these. And guess what? They're bending the knee to the Steam Deck supremacy by allowing you to get a version with SteamOS in the future. That alone proves that Valve is one step ahead of their competition.To summarize all that I said, the reason the Steam Deck is so good is not just the hardware, it's not just the screen, it's the fact that it's a very capable device at the hardware level, combined with very, very good software and a very consumer-friendly company behind it all.
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I legitimately thought you were talking about Nintendo hardware there for a while.
As far as we can tell the Switch 2 seems like it's a bit ahead of the Deck, which is on the low end of the current batch of PC handhelds anyway. I don't think the quality of hardware is the differentiating factor here, one way or the other. I also don't think "anemic" was what the Switch felt like at launch. It was somewhere between the Xbox 360 and the Xbox One, which was only slightly inadequate for a home console and incredibly bulky for a handheld in 2017. "Not pushing any interesting boundary" is somewhere between extremely opinionated and outright incorrect, quite frankly.
I have to say, it's a bit surprising to see all the hostility from... I don't know who this is. PC master race bros? Steam fanboys? You'd think that last group at least would have some fondness for the Switch, given it effectively invented the entire segment of modern hybrid handhelds. Not that I have a horse in that race, there are pros and cons of both, I own both and I think both are pretty great. The Deck effectively replaced the Switch on my rotation, then it got replaced by a Windows handheld and I assume the mix will lean slightly more towards the console end when then Switch 2 comes out, then swing back when newer PC handhelds come out. I am fine with that.
I find the last point interesting, though. What IS a "cultivated garden" platform? I don't know that I think of Steam in those terms at all. Steam is a software platform that just happens to be tied to someone else's hardware and OS and seems very unhappy about it. From the perspective of a PC user I think Steam's dominance is a problem. For one thing because my storefront of choice is GOG (screw DRM, thanks) and for another because the entire point of an open platform is competition. From the perspective of a console user Steam is... well, not that. It's a PC gaming thing, so I don't see it as direct competition in the fist place. Which I guess is why I'm more weirded out than anything else to see people taking sides this aggressively.
What are you on about with the switch having higher specs?
https://hothardware.com/news/switch-2-vs-steam-deck
“Not pushing any interesting boundary” is somewhere between extremely opinionated and outright incorrect, quite frankly.
I mean its not. Nintendo, in ancient history, did actually push boundaries around hardware. Most console makers did. The switch did not represent that. The completely transformed their approach to hardware, to shift to weaker, cheaper hardware so that they don't push themselves out of reach for their target market: children.
The steam deck was a real advance in that regard. The handhelds that have followed have also pushed further. That's not at all what the Switch2 is. Its behind the starting point for things that were available a few years ago.
The hostility is that Nintendo products have developed from actually capable, latest capabilities things, to a ticket you need to have punched to play a brand of games. The franchised is being carried by fan-boy-ism, not anything that they are doing that are objectively good, or that advance the industry. Its annoying also, that they are constantly being white knighted.
It seems like you are mostly concerned about grinding your axe against steam.
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This is what cracks me up about this topic literally every time it comes up.
Everyone on highly tech savvy and linux loving lemmy not being able to wrap their heads around the idea that busy parents dont want to have to tech support their kids game console. They want to be able to tell Grandma "He has a switch 2 and wants the new pokemon game for his birthday", they want to walk into stores and buy accessories that WILL fit and they dont want microtransaction laden shit. One of the FEW things I still respect about Nintendo is that their AAA in house releases are FULL games (for the price, they would fucking want to be).
The 6 to 12yo market alone is probably enough to make the switch worthwhile from a business perspective. The "just tech savvy enough to work facebook" crowd adds in the profit margins.
Yes but that group by in large won't be buying a switch 2 for at least a couple of years. $450 per console plus $80 a game is brutal, especially if you're buying for more than one kid.
On the other hand a switch lite can be had for like $100 and used games aren't too expensive either.
The sort of people who bought a switch at launch, after drinking Nintendo NX leaks like kool-aid, aren't as impressed this time around.
Lifetime sales won't be affected nearly as hard, but I don't know that the first year will be as big as the OG switch's.
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Honestly I prefer console to PC so much, even as a fediverse user, linux user, someone who has a degoogled phone and uses a home server instead of a cloud, because I just hate having to worry if games are compatible with my hardware, or if controllers are compatible with my game, or if graphical oddities in my game represent supernatural parts of the story or that I didn't install the right NVidia driver. When it comes to games, which are leisure, I find I just can't relax with PC games like I can with console games. As for emulation, I can't enjoy my games like that at all becuse the worry that settings are wrong or emulation is wrong is just too much like work. So I love my switch and I'll probably love my switch 2 one day.
Isn't that precisely the point of the steam deck, it provides a console-like target for game devs to develop against.
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This is exactly why we have these issues like we're dealing with with the Switch 2. Console gamers are only focused on hardware and exclusivity, they're not focused on the operating system of the device, the build quality of the product itself (including the ergonomics), nor do they care about the company that produces it beyond their basic fanboy tendencies.
Steam Deck's competitors might have slightly better hardware or a higher resolution, but none of them are right to repair friendly. None of them have custom software literally designed for the product, and none of them have the sort of ergonomics that the Steam Deck has. Not to mention the fact that Valve is an American company, which might not be important to everybody, but it is important to me. They're also a company that has proven themselves to be largely consumer-friendly.
While I'm not dissing anybody who does make the choice to go for an Ally or a Legion Go, the problem I have is that those devices are literally just another hardware company jumping on a band wagon. The Steam Deck completely revolutionized the way that we play on PC. Sure, it took inspiration from the original Switch. There's no question about that. But that doesn't mean that Valve was just jumping on a band wagon the way that ASUS and Lenovo are doing.
Valve literally spent years working with Linux developers on software that makes Linux gaming truly viable in order to create devices that allow you to run virtually any game on a handheld that you fully own, are allowed to put any game on (including games from other launchers, which they didn't have to allow) and you're fully allowed to self-repair it if any issues arise. Meanwhile, companies like ASUS treat their customers more like smartphone
suckerscustomers, not to mention the fact that they went the cheap and easy route of just using Windows, which isn't optimized for a device like these. And guess what? They're bending the knee to the Steam Deck supremacy by allowing you to get a version with SteamOS in the future. That alone proves that Valve is one step ahead of their competition.To summarize all that I said, the reason the Steam Deck is so good is not just the hardware, it's not just the screen, it's the fact that it's a very capable device at the hardware level, combined with very, very good software and a very consumer-friendly company behind it all.
Steamdecks competitors not being right to repair friendly is simply false. I have expanded my storage and upgraded my heat sink on my LeGo and it was super easy. I see people swapping all kinds of components out on their Ally's all the time, and the only mods I ever see from the Steamdeck community are really cheap looking 3d printed snap-on covers and grip protectors. The only time I see someone actually opening up a deck is to upgrade to hall effect joysticks which every other handheld PC just comes with out of the box because it is the industry standard now for everyone except for the Deck. I completely agree with you on right to repair which is precisely why I would recommend any PC over the Deck.
Steam OS is very polished but why would I want to limit my handheld PC to only gaming when with Windows it is capable of so much more. I use my go as a portable laptop for work and then after work I slap on the controllers and play a game. With SteamOS I would lose so much functionality. If you love steam so much you can just run steam in windows and just make it full screen, it's not that hard. Why do you even need a launcher that bad? How hard is it to just click on an icon on a desktop to open your game? Other launchers like Playnite are pretty polished as well.
Steam isn't the only large community with discord channels and modders and developers working together. Have you seen the community that SBC retro handhelds or android handhelds have? Have you seen the onionOS and spruceOS communities? Yes Steam is a much bigger community but that's just cuz they have spent much more on marketing.
The steamOS version of the Legion go doesn't look good, I'll take the original Go any day. But people kept pushing bazzite and now here we are with a native steamOS. I may not like it but I would argue that is definitely Lenovo listening to their community.
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Is a pants really a competitor for clothing?
Trick question, there's no "a pants"
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Well, the steam deck sold something like 6 million, and the switch sold 150 million, so....probably not? But on a more anecdotal level I know a lot of people for whom the Steam Deck took the place of their Switch.
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Yes but that group by in large won't be buying a switch 2 for at least a couple of years. $450 per console plus $80 a game is brutal, especially if you're buying for more than one kid.
On the other hand a switch lite can be had for like $100 and used games aren't too expensive either.
The sort of people who bought a switch at launch, after drinking Nintendo NX leaks like kool-aid, aren't as impressed this time around.
Lifetime sales won't be affected nearly as hard, but I don't know that the first year will be as big as the OG switch's.
I think you're definitely right about the adoption speed, people wont be dumping their switches en masse to buy a 2.
The Deck definitely puts a dent in their sales but "i DoNt gEt wHy aNyOnE wOuld bUy a sWitCh" comments on Lemmy show just how skewed the demographics are on here. Its not aimed at us.
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Yes, when combined with the switch 1
I keep retyping what I want to say, but I think my feelings come down to:
- There are 150 million switch 1's in the wild, that's going to continue to be a massive pull for developers when porting new games.
- Many families may already have the switch 1, are the exclusives enough of a pull to encourage those people to upgrade?
- Are there enough switch 2 exclusives to make upgrading worth it?
I do think the switch 2 will do just fine, but I also think there are a lot of people who loved their switch 1 who might look at the games they played, and look at upgrading to a steamdeck instead of the switch 2.
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Easily. Aside from the first party titles, there's literally no reason to get a Switch 2. Everything else is objectively better on a PC handheld (especially the Deck).
I picked up a Nintendo Switch because of it being a handheld. I wouldn't have picked one up otherwise, since I had skipped generations of Nintendo consoles preferring Sony due to Nintendo games being too high. But, with the Steam Deck where I don't even need to repurchase "Deck versions" of games the handheld component isn't a selling point of the Switch to me anymore.
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I'd say its more people stating why they prefer the Steam Deck over the Switch than actually believing the Steam Deck would overtake the Switch. Challenge them to a bet and you'd see very few take it.
I think it is people mistaking people's preferences for market share predictions.
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At the time I'm writing this there are 78 comments in this comment section. I haven't read all of them, so let's just assume that every single one of those comments represents a unique individual who believes that the Switch 2 and the Steam Deck (and related) direct competitors.
Given the nature of this platform and community that number is not even remotely surprising. It's also an utterly insignificant number of people.
The overlap between people who would buy a Switch 2 and people who would buy a Steam Deck is a tiny sliver of a Venn diagram. Those are two largely separate categories of gamer.
I think this more people mistaking people expressing their preferences for a system and extrapolating that to meaning market share predictions.
Reword the question to do you believe Steam Deck will overtake Nintendo marketshare and you'd get different answers. Same with if you ask someone why is Linux better than Windows versus do you believe Linux can overtake Windows marketshare?
I find people on the internet have a hard time to distinguishing between people who are expressing preferences and people predicting marketshare shifts. People just see oh this person doesn't like Nintendo or Windows and believes Steam Deck or Linux is going to be more popular.
