We are way overdue for an open source 2d printer
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An open source 2d printer is possible but will probably never happen
The print head is incredibly complex, the drivers and communications to talk to printers are all closed source, and unlike 3d printing the level of quality people are accustomed to is covered by patents for another 20-30 years
Are you saying the very concept of high resolution 2d printing is patented? Or that the way so and so manufacturer does it is patented?
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An open source 2d printer is possible but will probably never happen
The print head is incredibly complex, the drivers and communications to talk to printers are all closed source, and unlike 3d printing the level of quality people are accustomed to is covered by patents for another 20-30 years
Bring back Dot Matrix!!
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An open source 2d printer is possible but will probably never happen
The print head is incredibly complex, the drivers and communications to talk to printers are all closed source, and unlike 3d printing the level of quality people are accustomed to is covered by patents for another 20-30 years
wrote on last edited by [email protected]The print head is not complex, the printer companies just make it out to be. Essentially it's just a funnel to transfer ink onto paper. All that's needed is a needle to deliver the ink to the paper, or puncture the top layer to inject the ink to it. Apply heat to set the ink afterward. Moving the head over the paper and moving the rollers for the paper to move is already software which is known to the 3d printing community. The big trick is finding a system which doesn't hit some backward patent and getting a prototype made. That largely takes time and money.
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An open source 2d printer is possible but will probably never happen
The print head is incredibly complex, the drivers and communications to talk to printers are all closed source, and unlike 3d printing the level of quality people are accustomed to is covered by patents for another 20-30 years
wrote on last edited by [email protected]US patents expire after 20 years.
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An open source 2d printer is possible but will probably never happen
The print head is incredibly complex, the drivers and communications to talk to printers are all closed source, and unlike 3d printing the level of quality people are accustomed to is covered by patents for another 20-30 years
the drivers and communications to talk to printers are all closed source
That hasn't stopped CUPS
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Bring back Dot Matrix!!
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Or use plotters. These are the same X-Y setup as a 3D printer, where you use a pen instead of an extrusion module. There are a bunch of DIY projects for this. But now you're talking about minutes per page, not pages per minute.
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the drivers and communications to talk to printers are all closed source
That hasn't stopped CUPS
CUPS works great when it does work but it can be a real pain in the ass. That said if you build the printer around it it would probably work pretty well
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Are you saying the very concept of high resolution 2d printing is patented? Or that the way so and so manufacturer does it is patented?
The latter. Someone could create a novel means of transferring ink onto paper in a way that results in high resolution images and give it to the world for free i suppose
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the drivers and communications to talk to printers are all closed source
That hasn't stopped CUPS
just today I read that microsoft will stop accepting any new printer drivers. If new printers are to work, they must support mopria and IPP.
That should eventually have positive side effects for us linux users
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US patents expire after 20 years.
Damn, no wonder the kids ain't alright.
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This post did not contain any content.wrote on last edited by [email protected]
Even worse was my Epson MFP.
Me: Want to scan a page
Printer: No can do
Me: But why?
Printer: I'm outta yellow ink.
Me: How's that relevant to the task of scanning something?
Printer:
It took a dive from my balcony right into the dumpster bin.
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The print head is not complex, the printer companies just make it out to be. Essentially it's just a funnel to transfer ink onto paper. All that's needed is a needle to deliver the ink to the paper, or puncture the top layer to inject the ink to it. Apply heat to set the ink afterward. Moving the head over the paper and moving the rollers for the paper to move is already software which is known to the 3d printing community. The big trick is finding a system which doesn't hit some backward patent and getting a prototype made. That largely takes time and money.
Most modern printers aren’t what you describe though, they’re either a piezo that flexes with electricity to create pressure on the ink chamber and release a precise droplet of ink or they are a thermal design where a resistor heats inside the ink chamber to create pressure that forces ink out of the nozzle and subsequently draws more ink into the chamber as it cools. Heat is used here to eject the ink but heat is not used to set the ink in either process, that is done with evaporation and absorption (which is why printing a full page image can smear).
It’s not some big secret as you’ve said, the patents are openly available, but as you’ve said they’re off limits even for noncommercial use because America is stupid. It’s true that they’re not mystical and impossible to recreate but they’re definitely harder to replicate than a heat sink with a tube cut in it, a heat break, a cartridge heater, and a metal nozzle with a (typically) 0.4mm hole
The print head in most inkjet printers (at least non commercial ones) has no moving parts (unless you count the piezo flexing). Dot matrix used needles but why recreate that unless you specifically want that for the vibes or something?
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Even worse was my Epson MFP.
Me: Want to scan a page
Printer: No can do
Me: But why?
Printer: I'm outta yellow ink.
Me: How's that relevant to the task of scanning something?
Printer:It took a dive from my balcony right into the dumpster bin.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]How else will the police track your documents back to you without invisible fingerprints.
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Most modern printers aren’t what you describe though, they’re either a piezo that flexes with electricity to create pressure on the ink chamber and release a precise droplet of ink or they are a thermal design where a resistor heats inside the ink chamber to create pressure that forces ink out of the nozzle and subsequently draws more ink into the chamber as it cools. Heat is used here to eject the ink but heat is not used to set the ink in either process, that is done with evaporation and absorption (which is why printing a full page image can smear).
It’s not some big secret as you’ve said, the patents are openly available, but as you’ve said they’re off limits even for noncommercial use because America is stupid. It’s true that they’re not mystical and impossible to recreate but they’re definitely harder to replicate than a heat sink with a tube cut in it, a heat break, a cartridge heater, and a metal nozzle with a (typically) 0.4mm hole
The print head in most inkjet printers (at least non commercial ones) has no moving parts (unless you count the piezo flexing). Dot matrix used needles but why recreate that unless you specifically want that for the vibes or something?
Don't overengineer the prototype. Make it simple and efficient as a jumping off platform to lead to further developments down the road. Any open printer project doesn't have to start with the technology the proprietary models have. They just have to be proof-of-concept that it's doable. Once that's proven, further developments can be made down the line. Dot matrix is easy to create and cheap to produce compared to the overengineered systems proprietary models use nowadays and it would work as a stepping stone toward that further development.
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IANAL but I think patents don't necessarily mean open source isn't possible.
That is correct but it means it’s a lot of work for not much benefit
3d printing took off in 2009 when the stratasys patents on FDM expired. You can literally look at the history of consumer 3d printing and it’s basically nothing nothing nothing nothing 2009 reprap makerbot prusa. Similarly when SLA patents expired we suddenly got formlabs and eventually cheap resin printers.
Why reinvent the wheel? If a patent is about to expire just wait and do that. If it’s not and you truly have a novel idea for how to achieve the function that does not infringe on any patents, most people would end up trying to sell it (assuming they have the skill to bring it to market). Our culture is ruthless and requires capital to survive so I don’t necessarily fault someone for trying to secure the bag, though I wish they would at least do it in a way that wasn’t totally gross
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Don't overengineer the prototype. Make it simple and efficient as a jumping off platform to lead to further developments down the road. Any open printer project doesn't have to start with the technology the proprietary models have. They just have to be proof-of-concept that it's doable. Once that's proven, further developments can be made down the line. Dot matrix is easy to create and cheap to produce compared to the overengineered systems proprietary models use nowadays and it would work as a stepping stone toward that further development.
That makes sense. If you’re going that route though you should be fairly safe patent wise I would think? Most of the dot matrix patents, if not all, have to be expired by now?
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That makes sense. If you’re going that route though you should be fairly safe patent wise I would think? Most of the dot matrix patents, if not all, have to be expired by now?
I'm not a lawyer, but I would expect so.
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CUPS works great when it does work but it can be a real pain in the ass. That said if you build the printer around it it would probably work pretty well
CUPS is a blessing and a curse. Even when it works perfectly, fingers are crossed the next time.
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Every time this is brought up someone has to remind people that printers watermark whatever they print with a unique ID in barely readable type. That's, for example, why they refuse to print something in black when yellow is low. And it's a legal requirement.
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I feel so blessed by having small laser black only printer that just works. Never again ink printer
