Seems like the perfect day to ask: Muricans, what's your dream country to expatriate to? Non-Muricans, what's the thought on accepting US refugees?
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For some reason getting a passport is like $200, plus whatever it takes to get the required supporting documents (eg: birth certificate, the photo). That's not much by many metrics, but a lot of people in the US just don't have $200 to spend.
Drop in the bucket compared to the cost of travel. Your point still stands though.
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Have you not been screaming about guns for as long as anyone alive can remember?
the morons were the ones also screaming about guns
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Honestly lots of Western Europe, but personally: Iceland, Germany, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, etc.
Objectively places like Spain, Portugal, Malta, etc. would work.
I have no delusions of ever making it as an immigrant in any of these countries. You need a lot of money.
No, you need to find some job and rent a room
As a US citizen you have right to work in most of those countries. Without that right, it would be a different story -
the morons were the ones also screaming about guns
And that stops the non-morons from using the guns to end the morons rule how?
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You're condemning a lot of innocent people to die.
Cut the histrionics. Americans aren't being massacred. They are only asked to go to some minor inconvenience to uphold their country's democracy.
The distance between Chicago and Las Vegas is greater than between Berlin and the Russian front line in Ukraine. Are Germans supposed to feel pity for you poor darlings?
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Why is the difference between immigrant and ex patriot?
Ex patriots move to work in a foreign country for a limited period, with the intention of returning to their home country. Typically these are white collar workers who move between their employer's offices for 2-3 years and then return home.
Immigrants move with the intention of staying in the new country long term.
However, with the negative connotations attached to immigrants, some people - primarily white, highly educated people - incorrectly refer to themselves as expats, even once it's clear they intend to stay.
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No where. I like America. What are my other options, realistically? Britain which just banned porn? Australia which banned Hentai? Canada, which is just America but cold and sky high housing costs?
Not surprising when you think Twitter is the least biased social media out there. Your stance on porn boils down to "think of the children
" and you think that's the end goal. You seem quite deserving of the US, so have at it. -
Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
Dream country? Monaco, lol. But more realistically either Canada, Australia or New Zealand
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Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
Hey. If yanks get get to Canada, and get in, I'm sure we'd love to have ya.
There's a catch: if you're not fleeing persecution, you're gonna need a skill. It bumps up your score on the big calculation they do, and if you can keep doing the skilled work you may one day afford to live somewhere other than winnipeg.
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No, you need to find some job and rent a room
As a US citizen you have right to work in most of those countries. Without that right, it would be a different storyAs a US citizen you have right to work in most of those countries.
Nope. Absolutely none of those appear to allow working with just a US passport.
Without that right, it would be a different story
... Because I think it is.
But, to be fair, I only did a little searching. If you have a reference - like a page from the gov of Denmark saying "Yanks are cool: come in and get to work" - I'd love to be proved wrong. My nephew needs to see the world, and working is how it's done.
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No, you need to find some job and rent a room
As a US citizen you have right to work in most of those countries. Without that right, it would be a different storySure, but finding a job and housing in most of the places I listed is quite challenging, often even for citizens of those countries, but especially immigrants.
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Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
So, it's not just theoretical for me. I left the US earlier this year and moved to Iceland. Planning started almost a year before that. It is hard for Americans to move to a lot of European countries, and Iceland isn't an exception.
I hired an immigration attorney in Iceland to help make sure I did everything correctly. That cost about $10k as a retainer. It was worth every penny. If you're taking notes, that's pretty much the only one you need. Every country has different rules and laws regarding Americans moving to their country. And just like in America, if you have an issue with the law, you need to hire an attorney. They will help you understand every relevant law that exists that applies to you that may very well not be available in English. Hire a local expert.
I'm not very young, so I paid to move my stuff here. I also paid to move my electric vehicle because gas costs the equivalent of about $10 per gallon, plus there are some serious CO2 taxes here. That cost about another $20k. About two thirds moving the stuff, and one third moving the car.
In retrospect, moving the stuff was a good idea. I have lots of things that are just incredibly hard to get here, or take forever to get if you want them. And I saved enough money to be worth it. If you look at something like a KitchenAid mixer, it costs the equivalent of $1k here. If I sold my old one for used price and bought a new one here, I'd lose most of a thousand bucks. So you only need to do that a few times to make moving your stuff worth it.
I also saved money on importing my car over just buying a new one, but it was such a fucking hassle that if I were to do it again, I'd have just bought one here. I didn't save enough to make it worth it.
I'm not sure how useful my experience will be now. When I started talking to my immigration attorney, I explained that it seemed likely to me that after trump was reelected that Americans were going to panic and rush for the exits. I felt that it was likely that the countries would respond by doing exactly what America does: freak out about having too many immigrants and change the rules to make it harder to get in.
Based on a recent conversation with my attorney, it seems that I was right. The rules have changed enough that the path that we used for residency has now been more more seriously restricted. The attorney's office was inundated with requests from Americans and they were working 12+ hour days for a few months just trying to respond to all the requests.
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight. But I feel like we have fought the good fight for a long time. That went all the way from starting non-profits, to being involved locally, and all the way to running for public office. I'm not interested in identifying myself too much, but I will say that that the person we lost that election to was openly known to have been fired previously for having embezzled money, but voters didn't care because they got to vote for team (R) in our red state.
So from my perspective, there is a cancer that is eating America. I've tried hard to remove it. I've tried hard to treat it. Ultimately, it seems to have metastisized to the point that it is incurable. You can either keep up with the radiation and chemo and be miserable until you die, or you can stop treatment and do your best to enjoy the time that is left.
For me, moving to Iceland is my version of stopping treatment to enjoy what life I have left. And if you want to fight to the bitter end, or if you want to search for a better life in another country, I wish each and every one of you the very best on your journey.
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Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
Saint Kitts and Nevis. Economy sucks, internet too, but you can't beat the view.
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So, it's not just theoretical for me. I left the US earlier this year and moved to Iceland. Planning started almost a year before that. It is hard for Americans to move to a lot of European countries, and Iceland isn't an exception.
I hired an immigration attorney in Iceland to help make sure I did everything correctly. That cost about $10k as a retainer. It was worth every penny. If you're taking notes, that's pretty much the only one you need. Every country has different rules and laws regarding Americans moving to their country. And just like in America, if you have an issue with the law, you need to hire an attorney. They will help you understand every relevant law that exists that applies to you that may very well not be available in English. Hire a local expert.
I'm not very young, so I paid to move my stuff here. I also paid to move my electric vehicle because gas costs the equivalent of about $10 per gallon, plus there are some serious CO2 taxes here. That cost about another $20k. About two thirds moving the stuff, and one third moving the car.
In retrospect, moving the stuff was a good idea. I have lots of things that are just incredibly hard to get here, or take forever to get if you want them. And I saved enough money to be worth it. If you look at something like a KitchenAid mixer, it costs the equivalent of $1k here. If I sold my old one for used price and bought a new one here, I'd lose most of a thousand bucks. So you only need to do that a few times to make moving your stuff worth it.
I also saved money on importing my car over just buying a new one, but it was such a fucking hassle that if I were to do it again, I'd have just bought one here. I didn't save enough to make it worth it.
I'm not sure how useful my experience will be now. When I started talking to my immigration attorney, I explained that it seemed likely to me that after trump was reelected that Americans were going to panic and rush for the exits. I felt that it was likely that the countries would respond by doing exactly what America does: freak out about having too many immigrants and change the rules to make it harder to get in.
Based on a recent conversation with my attorney, it seems that I was right. The rules have changed enough that the path that we used for residency has now been more more seriously restricted. The attorney's office was inundated with requests from Americans and they were working 12+ hour days for a few months just trying to respond to all the requests.
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight. But I feel like we have fought the good fight for a long time. That went all the way from starting non-profits, to being involved locally, and all the way to running for public office. I'm not interested in identifying myself too much, but I will say that that the person we lost that election to was openly known to have been fired previously for having embezzled money, but voters didn't care because they got to vote for team (R) in our red state.
So from my perspective, there is a cancer that is eating America. I've tried hard to remove it. I've tried hard to treat it. Ultimately, it seems to have metastisized to the point that it is incurable. You can either keep up with the radiation and chemo and be miserable until you die, or you can stop treatment and do your best to enjoy the time that is left.
For me, moving to Iceland is my version of stopping treatment to enjoy what life I have left. And if you want to fight to the bitter end, or if you want to search for a better life in another country, I wish each and every one of you the very best on your journey.
I'm glad you had the means to make it out.
The vast majority of Americans, sadly, do not.
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For some reason getting a passport is like $200, plus whatever it takes to get the required supporting documents (eg: birth certificate, the photo). That's not much by many metrics, but a lot of people in the US just don't have $200 to spend.
In 2016 there were tens of million of Americans who couldn't absorb a sudden $400 expense without going further into debt.
That number's probably grown significantly since.
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As a Canadian, it appears to me that most of the Americans who want to move here are doing so because they like and support the way that Canada is currently functioning, and that's fine by me.
Immigrants who want the country to change for them are problematic. I almost think that first generation immigrants shouldn't get to vote, it should be a gift to their children rather than themselves. That shouldn't even need the child to be born in Canada, I'd actually be fine with anyone who goes through at least half their primary education (so let's say grade 7 or younger) here being included if they moved here with their parents when they were younger.
I wish I'd married a Canadian in 2004 when the getting was good, haha.
I even speak some French.
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Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
Probably Romania, cheap cost of living while still being in Europe and being a part of NATO.
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I'm glad you had the means to make it out.
The vast majority of Americans, sadly, do not.
American here. Can confirm; do not have $30,000. I just managed to scrounge up $5500 for the minimum possible downpayment on a house in northern Maine; the bluest, closest to Canada place, where people like to mind their own business and not fuck with anyone else for no reason. The Canadian escape route is real, though.
I do hear good things about Portugal. I was thinking Spain, but they seem to be having their own issues right now. This timeline is definitely off the rails.
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the country i was to go to is the imagined America of our ancestors like Langston Hughes, the land of equality and opportunity and liberation and diversity, full of immigrants working for their own and their shared futures
Is there a sign-up sheet?
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Ex patriots move to work in a foreign country for a limited period, with the intention of returning to their home country. Typically these are white collar workers who move between their employer's offices for 2-3 years and then return home.
Immigrants move with the intention of staying in the new country long term.
However, with the negative connotations attached to immigrants, some people - primarily white, highly educated people - incorrectly refer to themselves as expats, even once it's clear they intend to stay.
I’ve seen a lot of online hate for expats
