Made Ya Look...
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You apparently didn't hear about Renewables.
I guess most of historical civilizations heard of renewables. Why didn't they have intercontinental flights and chemical fertilizers with a population of 8 billion?
Do you honestly think we're going to wave a magic wand and pooff, same lifestyle but with sunshine?
What's coming in the next 50 years will make the 21st century so far look like a picnic in the park.
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Isn’t it some form of renewables? Growing food with the sun.
Though I prefer to just water edible wild stuff occasionally instead of putting to much energy in growing it intentionally.
Have you ever tried growing... anything? Do you have any idea what that's like without chemical pesticides and fertilizers?
There's a reason agriculture used to occupy most of people's time.
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These are farmers that i miss. The ones who dgf about the federal government and just want to be off the grid doing farm stuff.
It frustrates me that the independent, “keep to myself and don’t trust the government” personalities love gas/oil and not solar panels/batteries. Can’t remember a time we invented a war in the Middle East to steal their sunlight.
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Have you ever tried growing... anything? Do you have any idea what that's like without chemical pesticides and fertilizers?
There's a reason agriculture used to occupy most of people's time.
I have gardened without gas, fertilizer or pesticides for years.
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Isn’t it some form of renewables? Growing food with the sun.
Though I prefer to just water edible wild stuff occasionally instead of putting to much energy in growing it intentionally.
Soil nutrients, unfortunately, are mostly petroleum derived these days. Another reason to not just burn it, but nobody listens to me.
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I have gardened without gas, fertilizer or pesticides for years.
Fantastic. Now extrapolate that to supporting 8 billion people, with your kind of gardening and what it will mean for that civilization.
Do you support yourself 100% of the time with that gardening? Or is it a relaxing hobby?
I'm talking about how we got to 8 billion people. Here's a hint, it's not by gardening.
So you're telling me you never drive your car somewhere to buy seeds or tools? And they got to the store without trucks?
The clothes you wear to garden? You made them yourself? You have sheep? A spinning jenny?
The people working at the store to unload the trucks? They also eat food that came into being without gas, fertilizer, or pesticides?
Look, you've been gardening with gas, fertilizer, and pesticides all along. You just didn't see it.
That's my point. You can hug yourself and pat yourself on the back as much as you want, but without fossil fuels, you wouldn't have the lifestyle that lets you type away at a computer while your fridge is full of food from the supermarket...
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Have you ever tried growing... anything? Do you have any idea what that's like without chemical pesticides and fertilizers?
There's a reason agriculture used to occupy most of people's time.
That's a complete mischaracterization. Intensive mono cropping is time and labor intensive because you have to factor in inevitable losses in crop yield (due to blight, pests, etc.) plus the labor costs of harvesting a single crop that all matures at once.
The costs of soil nutrition are also exacerbated because monocropping extracts nutrients from the soil with very little return (there's a lot of hubbub about rotational cropping with clover and things like that, but it's not a long-term solution, especially when you're bleeding money for having a field go fallow)Building up soil diversity is 100% about working with nature to build crop and soil diversity, and letting natural processes accumulate to produce optimal growing conditions. The issue is it's not very scaleable, and so grumpy Westerners and urbanites toss it aside because they don't want to actually grow the food, they just want to feel good about buying it
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I guess most of historical civilizations heard of renewables. Why didn't they have intercontinental flights and chemical fertilizers with a population of 8 billion?
Do you honestly think we're going to wave a magic wand and pooff, same lifestyle but with sunshine?
What's coming in the next 50 years will make the 21st century so far look like a picnic in the park.
Whine whine whine. This person will hold their tablet against their chest and bemoan the loss of porn-on-demand while we get to work building sustainable food capacity.
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That's a complete mischaracterization. Intensive mono cropping is time and labor intensive because you have to factor in inevitable losses in crop yield (due to blight, pests, etc.) plus the labor costs of harvesting a single crop that all matures at once.
The costs of soil nutrition are also exacerbated because monocropping extracts nutrients from the soil with very little return (there's a lot of hubbub about rotational cropping with clover and things like that, but it's not a long-term solution, especially when you're bleeding money for having a field go fallow)Building up soil diversity is 100% about working with nature to build crop and soil diversity, and letting natural processes accumulate to produce optimal growing conditions. The issue is it's not very scaleable, and so grumpy Westerners and urbanites toss it aside because they don't want to actually grow the food, they just want to feel good about buying it
Yes, but without fossil fuel inputs humanity couldn't sustain 8 billion people, renewable energy or not.
My point is that humanity is heading into a foundational tree chipper. Don't you think we're already seeing signs of unraveling?
Of course humanity can survive on renewable energy, that's how we built the Pyramids, but those civilizations didn't have 8 billion people shopping on Aliexpress or spray cheese on nachos to watch the football game.
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Whine whine whine. This person will hold their tablet against their chest and bemoan the loss of porn-on-demand while we get to work building sustainable food capacity.
Well yes, but that means 8 billion people will be a bit of a snug fit on this planet, don't you think?
And we had sustainable food capacity up to 1859.
There's no more bat guano either.
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My understanding of the word "shitpost" is that it means good-natured trolling.
Precisely
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Well yes, but that means 8 billion people will be a bit of a snug fit on this planet, don't you think?
And we had sustainable food capacity up to 1859.
There's no more bat guano either.
Propping up an unsustainable system through resource extraction and technological innovation without contextual relativism doesn't just magically make it sustainable.
It comes down to climate resilience, deglobalization of produce markets, and creating the political will to build localized, worker-owned food production and distribution systems. Yes that will mean paying out the ass for bananas, but it's better than watching children choke on smoke while they ask you why it has to be like this.
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Yes, but without fossil fuel inputs humanity couldn't sustain 8 billion people, renewable energy or not.
My point is that humanity is heading into a foundational tree chipper. Don't you think we're already seeing signs of unraveling?
Of course humanity can survive on renewable energy, that's how we built the Pyramids, but those civilizations didn't have 8 billion people shopping on Aliexpress or spray cheese on nachos to watch the football game.
I think your argument is sound if the goal is to sustain current living standards in developed nations
But perhaps we should be evaluating whether, if those living standards require such an oppressive system, it may be better for us in these wealthy nations to learn how to do without
Not easy, not even likely, but necessary if we want to have a planet for future generations
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Yes, but without fossil fuel inputs humanity couldn't sustain 8 billion people, renewable energy or not.
My point is that humanity is heading into a foundational tree chipper. Don't you think we're already seeing signs of unraveling?
Of course humanity can survive on renewable energy, that's how we built the Pyramids, but those civilizations didn't have 8 billion people shopping on Aliexpress or spray cheese on nachos to watch the football game.
I also agree with you that it's unraveling. But that's why'd I'd rather try to adapt now and face the reality than pretend I can have Amazon Prime and not participate in killing life on Earth.
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That's a complete mischaracterization. Intensive mono cropping is time and labor intensive because you have to factor in inevitable losses in crop yield (due to blight, pests, etc.) plus the labor costs of harvesting a single crop that all matures at once.
The costs of soil nutrition are also exacerbated because monocropping extracts nutrients from the soil with very little return (there's a lot of hubbub about rotational cropping with clover and things like that, but it's not a long-term solution, especially when you're bleeding money for having a field go fallow)Building up soil diversity is 100% about working with nature to build crop and soil diversity, and letting natural processes accumulate to produce optimal growing conditions. The issue is it's not very scaleable, and so grumpy Westerners and urbanites toss it aside because they don't want to actually grow the food, they just want to feel good about buying it
Yeah. The problem with capitalism is that if you're not willing to fuck things up for short-to-medium term benefit before moving onto the next thing, you'll go out of business to someone who is.
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I also agree with you that it's unraveling. But that's why'd I'd rather try to adapt now and face the reality than pretend I can have Amazon Prime and not participate in killing life on Earth.
Oh, agree. But how many people do you think we can sustain your way globally in the coming decades? We are projected to reach 10 billion by 2050 by some estimates.
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Oh, agree. But how many people do you think we can sustain your way globally in the coming decades? We are projected to reach 10 billion by 2050 by some estimates.
I'd argue we're already in overshoot as far as carrying capacity, if we're using current standards of living in the West as the baseline. In that sense, population decline is inevitable.
Its impossible for me to answer the question you're asking, but I posit this: at this point, what is the alternative? Can we keep affording to slow-walk actionable solutions to climate change? What are the wealthy nations of the world willing to sacrifice to sustain Earth's future as our home? How will we decide who and what to preserve, and who and what is worth losing?
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The problem with a hat like this is that if I saw this person from a distance, I wouldn't look closely enough to read it.
i think it'd work if you just make it big obvious text like TRANS RIGHTS, so it's hard not to read
