Do you believe that the people should be able to have guns to protect themselves, or should the police have the sole authority to own and posess guns to protect the people?
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wrote last edited by [email protected]
The genie is out of the bottle here, but a polite society would make guns unavailable for everyone. Guns have one purpose: to kill things. Who’s to decide who the “bad guys” and “good guys” are?
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The difference is that guns have only one purpose.
People can get hurt during an accident while using a tool, but for a gun, something gets hurt every time it's used as intended.
I don't think we should be using power tool regulations for guns.
Exactly. A gun is not a car; it has no other purpose other than to kill. The “tool” argument is disingenuous at best.
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wrote last edited by [email protected]
Yes it will. The idea thaat criminals will mass produce homemade firearms is nonsense. Even the cartels don't do this at any scale.
I'm Toronto it's like 13% of guns that are domestic, the other 87% are smuggled in from the unregulated shithole that is America, 0% are homemade.
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Absolutely, why should only some people be afforded a right.
Criminals will be criminals, take guns away and they start running cars through crowds.
Try living somewhere that's not America for a minute.
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I'm not against gun ownership, but it needs to be regulated.
Compare it to your car. You need to prove your ability with a test, carry your license with you, register your vehicle, and in some places, it must pass an annual safety inspection. We do all this just to get to work and back, but I can stop at one of many stores within 10 miles of my house and buy armfuls of military hardware designed to do nothing but kill.
Handguns, shotguns and hunting rifles are all you need. Small magazines, no burst or fully automatics. Everything gets registered.
Some extra context: There are a LOT of areas in the US that are rural enough that wildlife is a serious threat, and hunting is a sustainable option for meat. It makes no sense to tell those people they can't have one.
You do not need handguns. Handguns are the biggest problem.
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(As a general concept of how a society should run, not intended as a US-specific question.)
I sometimes see people on the internet saying that giving people easy access to guns is too risky and there should be stricter gun control, while simultaneously wanting to abolish the police? I'm just confused on what people really want?
You cant both abolish the police and then also disarm the citizens, gotta pick one. So which is it, internet? Self-policing with guns? Or reform the police?
[Please state what country you're in]
::: spoiler ---
(Also its funny how the far-right of the US is both pro-gun and pro-police, I'm confused by that as well)
:::wrote last edited by [email protected]Abolishing the police is an overly broad demand that can't really be taken that seriously as an actual, society wide, legislative course of action.
That being said, it might still be worth advocating for as a matter of negotiation, and it's worth abolishing many specific existing police forces and replacing them whole cloth with new professional forces.
And no, gun ownership should not be allowed. It's fucking asinine to think that the world will be a better place when you allow anyone to point and click murder someone on a whim.
Guess what happens when you let good people buy guns? Bad people buy them more frequently, and in greater quantities.
Guess what happens when you challenge your local government's use of force with you own personal cache of weapons? Oh look, every police force in the country just bought APCs and militarized to make that infeasible.
You'll still always need hunting rifles, shotguns, etc. and you will likely need to have special circumstances where someone or their security guard can get a firearm for exigent circumstances, but by and large the idea of allowing widespread firearm ownership for personal defense reasons is nonsense. All of the arguments fall apart when you examine their effects at a systemic level.
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Try living somewhere that's not America for a minute.
I mean we're seeing this in Europe with mass shootins and such, though to a much lesser extent than America.
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Yes it will. The idea thaat criminals will mass produce homemade firearms is nonsense. Even the cartels don't do this at any scale.
I'm Toronto it's like 13% of guns that are domestic, the other 87% are smuggled in from the unregulated shithole that is America, 0% are homemade.
Guns can now be 3d printed as we can see Luigi Mangione allegedly printed that gun
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The difference is that guns have only one purpose.
People can get hurt during an accident while using a tool, but for a gun, something gets hurt every time it's used as intended.
I don't think we should be using power tool regulations for guns.
A gun can be used in defense. I don't understand the want to remove the one thing that gives you a chance at survival, while a literal fascist is in power right now....one that just built a concentration camp and sells merchandise to it like it's funny...guns are dangerous, but they're the only thing that equalizes everyone when force comes into play.
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I'm strictly anti-gun, as I believe are most Europeans. Civilians shouldn't be allowed to keep ranged weapons, period.
Civilians shouldn't be allowed to keep ranged weapons, period.
So my bow should be illegal? What about a slingshot?
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Guns can now be 3d printed as we can see Luigi Mangione allegedly printed that gun
wrote last edited by [email protected]Yeah, but they're not because no one wants to fire something that might blow up in their hand, and it's not actually that easy to mass manufacture illegal guns, even with 3d printers and CNC machines.
Like I said, we all know you can make a homemade gun with online information. That has been the case for literally the last 2 decades. And yet, underground homemade gun manufacturing is virtually non existent, because guess what, it's not that easy to do at scale in a way that won't get you immediately caught and all your equipment and supplies impounded.
Literally every developers western country that bans guns has not seen any noticeable rise in homemade guns being used at any regular pace. In what world do you think Norwegian clubs are being shot up with homemade uzis?
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(As a general concept of how a society should run, not intended as a US-specific question.)
I sometimes see people on the internet saying that giving people easy access to guns is too risky and there should be stricter gun control, while simultaneously wanting to abolish the police? I'm just confused on what people really want?
You cant both abolish the police and then also disarm the citizens, gotta pick one. So which is it, internet? Self-policing with guns? Or reform the police?
[Please state what country you're in]
::: spoiler ---
(Also its funny how the far-right of the US is both pro-gun and pro-police, I'm confused by that as well)
:::wrote last edited by [email protected]I think we should get rid of guns entirely and go back to hand-to-hand combat with swords and clubs. Guns make it too easy. I want a challenge.
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I mean we're seeing this in Europe with mass shootins and such, though to a much lesser extent than America.
No, we're not. There is literally nothing in Europe that happens in a year that compares with the gun violence and homicide rate happens in America in a weekend.
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The genie is out of the bottle here, but a polite society would make guns unavailable for everyone. Guns have one purpose: to kill things. Who’s to decide who the “bad guys” and “good guys” are?
wrote last edited by [email protected]Let's just hope that there's no such thing as "mental illness", or "emotion", that could make a "good guy" want to do something "not good".
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I think the right to have a gun should also include the legal requirement to take and pass a tactical shoot course. No point in having a gun if one can't hit their target in a stressful situation. Paper target shooting isn't good enough.
How about en exam on morals and ethics?
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(As a general concept of how a society should run, not intended as a US-specific question.)
I sometimes see people on the internet saying that giving people easy access to guns is too risky and there should be stricter gun control, while simultaneously wanting to abolish the police? I'm just confused on what people really want?
You cant both abolish the police and then also disarm the citizens, gotta pick one. So which is it, internet? Self-policing with guns? Or reform the police?
[Please state what country you're in]
::: spoiler ---
(Also its funny how the far-right of the US is both pro-gun and pro-police, I'm confused by that as well)
:::US / PNW
People who have not committed violent crimes should have the right to own and purchase any firearm.
From my point of view, the NFA is a violation of individuals’ rights and should be abolished. The concept of a concealed carry permit, permit to purchase, “gun free zone”, or firearm licensing / registration are a violation of peoples’ rights.
Firearm function and safety should be taught in schools again, including safe storage.
Failure to follow firearm safety or safe storage resulting in bodily harm ought to be a criminal offense with heavy consequences, especially in cases that result in death.Policing in the US is in dire need of reform.
“Qualified Immunity” needs to end. Officers ought to be held to higher standards than the rest of the population, which includes using their judgment for appropriate levels of force and facing consequences for excessive force.
Murderers do not get paid administrative leave or a new job in the next state, they get a trial by jury.
Use of deadly force in self defense against an officer of the law ought to be justifiable after being tried in court.
Traffic enforcement, response to mental health crises, response to domestic disputes, and response to reports of threats/violence require separate skillsets and should be handled by separate teams with their own training and qualifications. -
I think we should get rid of guns entirely and go back to hand-to-hand combat with swords and clubs. Guns make it too easy. I want a challenge.
Hand to hand combat is very unequal. If you get lucky, you have the genes that naturally make you stronger.
Guns equalize the playing field.
Also, you can't hand-to-hand a bear. Humans aren't the only threat that exists.
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Hand to hand combat is very unequal. If you get lucky, you have the genes that naturally make you stronger.
Guns equalize the playing field.
Also, you can't hand-to-hand a bear. Humans aren't the only threat that exists.
Also, you can't hand-to-hand a bear.
Polearms > Bear arms
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American, white, liberal, redneck gun nut here. If you're talking about "defund the police", that's yet another idiot liberal slogan that misses the mark. The idea is to take police funds and pay for workers who can handle situations police should never have been sent to. Want to kill yourself? Call the cops!
The far right loves cops because cops are on their side, or are perceived to be. To put it bluntly, guns are for shooting marauding black people, not white people. See all the stories about white people being shocked when law enforcement doesn't go their way? Yeah.
Also, I suspect people who are anti-gun have never had violence inflicted upon them, or cops who are far away, or haven't had a bear wander in the dog door, or haven't had an enraged redneck struggling to be polite because they're visibly armed. In related news, my MAGA neighbor came stomping down here to kick my ass, turned right the fuck around when I went inside for my .45.
I could write all night on the subject, but let me leave it at this: Now is not the fucking time for Americans to disarm themselves. The only reason fascists haven't run us completely over is that they know there will be a real chance we'll fucking kill them. Look where the ICE raids are happening, in the places where guns are the most suppressed.
Yes, this all sucks, but it's where we're at in America.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Also, I suspect people who are anti-gun have never had violence inflicted upon them
Have you considered that some have just had violence inflicted upon them by people with guns?
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No, we're not. There is literally nothing in Europe that happens in a year that compares with the gun violence and homicide rate happens in America in a weekend.
Which is why I said "to a much lesser extent." Mass shootings are on the rise in multiple European countries, as are homicides and hate crimes. I mean hell, France is looking to restrict knives over this stuff. Having a non-broken society contributes a lot more than what murder weapons are available, and now that European societies are generally fraying at the seams murder rates are unsurprisingly rising.
