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mentoring

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  • ssupii@sopuli.xyzS [email protected]
    This post did not contain any content.
    A This user is from outside of this forum
    A This user is from outside of this forum
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    wrote last edited by
    #11

    well, "wash your balls" isn't a bad advice. and "I'm having a breakdown" is just a state of being

    N 1 Reply Last reply
    2
    • B [email protected]

      I mean, the problem here is that - wholesome as Gary is, young men don't want "wholesome".

      I know that when I was a young man, I wanted to get the fuck out of my home town, have crazy adventures, improve the world on my own terms, and fuck every attractive women that came within 1000m of me (For the record, not much jas changed...).

      And Gary is a nice guy with an unattractive wife, a steady job, and two kids. He spends his free time at the bar or mowing the lawn, getting fatter by the year. He likes to talk about the vacation he took to an all inclusive resort with his family a few years ago as if it was the great adventure of his life. Gary doesn't have the most amazing life, but he has enough, and he's happy.

      And my response to Gary as a young man would have been to appreciate his encouragement, and take his advice with a smile, and then ignore all of it because fuck that nonsense, I am getting the fuck out of this shithole. I am not going to end up like Gary! I am not going to settle for a life of bullshit mediocrity, drinking myself to an early grave while every dream I ever had whithers on the vine. And I am absofuckingloutly not going to follow in his footsteps. Come hell or high water, I will die before I end up with such a piss poor excuse for a life!!!

      Point being - if you want young men to take your advice rather than the advice of toxic influencers, you need to validate their desires and ambitions, rather than dismissing them and telling them to want something else. "Oh, you have goal X? Well that's wrong - you should have goal Y, and here is how I got there" is not an effective way to offer advice to anyone

      S This user is from outside of this forum
      S This user is from outside of this forum
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      wrote last edited by
      #12

      I wanted to get the fuck out of my home town, have crazy adventures, improve the world on my own terms, and fuck every attractive women

      And you think that's nature, not nurture?

      I'll be honest, that's not an experience I shared.

      B 1 Reply Last reply
      2
      • ssupii@sopuli.xyzS [email protected]
        This post did not contain any content.
        therapygary@lemmy.blahaj.zoneT This user is from outside of this forum
        therapygary@lemmy.blahaj.zoneT This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote last edited by [email protected]
        #13

        I will never tell you to wash your balls. Clean balls are beta™ shit

        1 Reply Last reply
        1
        • B [email protected]

          I mean, the problem here is that - wholesome as Gary is, young men don't want "wholesome".

          I know that when I was a young man, I wanted to get the fuck out of my home town, have crazy adventures, improve the world on my own terms, and fuck every attractive women that came within 1000m of me (For the record, not much jas changed...).

          And Gary is a nice guy with an unattractive wife, a steady job, and two kids. He spends his free time at the bar or mowing the lawn, getting fatter by the year. He likes to talk about the vacation he took to an all inclusive resort with his family a few years ago as if it was the great adventure of his life. Gary doesn't have the most amazing life, but he has enough, and he's happy.

          And my response to Gary as a young man would have been to appreciate his encouragement, and take his advice with a smile, and then ignore all of it because fuck that nonsense, I am getting the fuck out of this shithole. I am not going to end up like Gary! I am not going to settle for a life of bullshit mediocrity, drinking myself to an early grave while every dream I ever had whithers on the vine. And I am absofuckingloutly not going to follow in his footsteps. Come hell or high water, I will die before I end up with such a piss poor excuse for a life!!!

          Point being - if you want young men to take your advice rather than the advice of toxic influencers, you need to validate their desires and ambitions, rather than dismissing them and telling them to want something else. "Oh, you have goal X? Well that's wrong - you should have goal Y, and here is how I got there" is not an effective way to offer advice to anyone

          R This user is from outside of this forum
          R This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote last edited by [email protected]
          #14

          If Gary has any shred of charisma, people will respect his opinions and listen to his words. That applies to young individuals too.

          When I was around 13, there was this teacher guy that all the kids respected. He was fun and could be scary stern when the situation demanded it. Kids really liked him and listened to him. He was not rich, his teeth was somewhat discolored cause of tobaco use and I would call him a Gary type character, with an unremarkable life style. But he had charisma and a commanding presence.

          I suspect that if anyone parrots tates teachings in proximity to that teacher, they woul become the laughing stock of the class for a week. And they would be ashamed of themselves and remember that for the rest of their lives.

          He was a good and competent teacher too.

          1 Reply Last reply
          2
          • track_shovel@slrpnk.netT [email protected]

            I talk about this in another comment on a different post, but I'll give you the TLDR, plus a bit more musing:

            • At the highest level, this type of thinking stems from an erosion of parenting and the evolution of the digital age. It's not that parents don't care, but they have less time than they have historically to parent, and both parents have to work to support the family in most cases.

            • Kids now socialize less due to time spent online

            • The algorithms online are powerful and meant to keep you watching, even if it's not great for you

            • Because of the lack of parenting and being terminally on there is less and less interaction with positive male role model, so kids figuring themselves out latch on to anything they can find and it ends up being Tate and ilk because fear and anger sell, and they make us feel like if only we were just a bit better, we would have what the tatertots have.

            • To combat this, we need to make morons afraid again

            • Saying something outrageous used to cost you social capital but now everyone is too busy to care and there's been the rise of the ideal that all opinions are equal, confrontation, unless approved by the talking heads online, is bad, and everyone need to feel safe, heard, and their opinions as valid (at least to a degree)

            • We can best deal with this weaponized misogyny by calling people out - especially kids - as it crops up. If you're a coach on a hockey team and someone starts up, shut them down. Leagues have diversity and inclusion policies - use them to back yourself up.

            • Even if it's just someone else's kid you are around, while you may be afraid of speaking up, but chances are most parents would want to know their kid is calling women 'holes' or the like and will deal with it.

            The only way this goes away is if we address it at every stage, and every time it comes up.

            underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU This user is from outside of this forum
            underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote last edited by [email protected]
            #15

            It’s not that parents don’t care, but they have less time than they have historically to parent, and both parents have to work to support the family in most cases.

            I'll spot you one deeper. Working families have been the norm for the bulk of human history. But we've also had large tribal communities full of extended family to provide social and economic support.

            But the nuclear family, privatization of social services, and the wealth gap have closed off this network of relationships. In the modern world of commoditized labor and class politics, you either have servants or you are a servant.

            Fascists translate the class politics to a social structure. For fascist men, the women become the servant gender to which men are entitled.

            Further, as wealth aggregation generates a gulf between poverty and aristocracy, the aristocrats have a habit of monopolizing young people for their own personal demands. This leads to a problem of Surplus Males whose struggle for survival leads to domestic and criminal violence.

            All of this degrades quality of life for the next generation.

            track_shovel@slrpnk.netT 1 Reply Last reply
            5
            • track_shovel@slrpnk.netT [email protected]

              I talk about this in another comment on a different post, but I'll give you the TLDR, plus a bit more musing:

              • At the highest level, this type of thinking stems from an erosion of parenting and the evolution of the digital age. It's not that parents don't care, but they have less time than they have historically to parent, and both parents have to work to support the family in most cases.

              • Kids now socialize less due to time spent online

              • The algorithms online are powerful and meant to keep you watching, even if it's not great for you

              • Because of the lack of parenting and being terminally on there is less and less interaction with positive male role model, so kids figuring themselves out latch on to anything they can find and it ends up being Tate and ilk because fear and anger sell, and they make us feel like if only we were just a bit better, we would have what the tatertots have.

              • To combat this, we need to make morons afraid again

              • Saying something outrageous used to cost you social capital but now everyone is too busy to care and there's been the rise of the ideal that all opinions are equal, confrontation, unless approved by the talking heads online, is bad, and everyone need to feel safe, heard, and their opinions as valid (at least to a degree)

              • We can best deal with this weaponized misogyny by calling people out - especially kids - as it crops up. If you're a coach on a hockey team and someone starts up, shut them down. Leagues have diversity and inclusion policies - use them to back yourself up.

              • Even if it's just someone else's kid you are around, while you may be afraid of speaking up, but chances are most parents would want to know their kid is calling women 'holes' or the like and will deal with it.

              The only way this goes away is if we address it at every stage, and every time it comes up.

              B This user is from outside of this forum
              B This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote last edited by [email protected]
              #16

              there’s been the rise of the ideal that all opinions are equal, confrontation, unless approved by the talking heads online, is bad, and everyone need to feel safe, heard, and their opinions as valid (at least to a degree)

              We can best deal with this weaponized misogyny by calling people out - especially kids - as it crops up.

              Just to be clear, we call it out IRL. I 100% agree there.

              Calling out tatertots and such online is feeding the trolls, and counterproductive. They thrive on the discord because algorithms love it, so the best move is to pretend they're invisible, just like with real narcissists.

              I see a lot of online sentiment of "we stay to fight," especially on Reddit and Twitter, when that's exactly what's feeding the machine. Finite attention is so much better elsewhere.

              track_shovel@slrpnk.netT 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • ssupii@sopuli.xyzS [email protected]
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                orenj@lemmy.sdf.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                orenj@lemmy.sdf.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote last edited by
                #17

                I wish I had a gary growing up. He seems alright

                1 Reply Last reply
                8
                • B [email protected]

                  there’s been the rise of the ideal that all opinions are equal, confrontation, unless approved by the talking heads online, is bad, and everyone need to feel safe, heard, and their opinions as valid (at least to a degree)

                  We can best deal with this weaponized misogyny by calling people out - especially kids - as it crops up.

                  Just to be clear, we call it out IRL. I 100% agree there.

                  Calling out tatertots and such online is feeding the trolls, and counterproductive. They thrive on the discord because algorithms love it, so the best move is to pretend they're invisible, just like with real narcissists.

                  I see a lot of online sentiment of "we stay to fight," especially on Reddit and Twitter, when that's exactly what's feeding the machine. Finite attention is so much better elsewhere.

                  track_shovel@slrpnk.netT This user is from outside of this forum
                  track_shovel@slrpnk.netT This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote last edited by
                  #18

                  Calling it out in person works a lot better than online. Online it's just mean words on a screen they have to deal with. A living, breathing person telling them they are dumb has more sting.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU [email protected]

                    It’s not that parents don’t care, but they have less time than they have historically to parent, and both parents have to work to support the family in most cases.

                    I'll spot you one deeper. Working families have been the norm for the bulk of human history. But we've also had large tribal communities full of extended family to provide social and economic support.

                    But the nuclear family, privatization of social services, and the wealth gap have closed off this network of relationships. In the modern world of commoditized labor and class politics, you either have servants or you are a servant.

                    Fascists translate the class politics to a social structure. For fascist men, the women become the servant gender to which men are entitled.

                    Further, as wealth aggregation generates a gulf between poverty and aristocracy, the aristocrats have a habit of monopolizing young people for their own personal demands. This leads to a problem of Surplus Males whose struggle for survival leads to domestic and criminal violence.

                    All of this degrades quality of life for the next generation.

                    track_shovel@slrpnk.netT This user is from outside of this forum
                    track_shovel@slrpnk.netT This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote last edited by
                    #19

                    You're on point at least on the capitalism behind this. I didn't want to dive into it because my comment was long enough, but I'm glad you did

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • track_shovel@slrpnk.netT [email protected]

                      I talk about this in another comment on a different post, but I'll give you the TLDR, plus a bit more musing:

                      • At the highest level, this type of thinking stems from an erosion of parenting and the evolution of the digital age. It's not that parents don't care, but they have less time than they have historically to parent, and both parents have to work to support the family in most cases.

                      • Kids now socialize less due to time spent online

                      • The algorithms online are powerful and meant to keep you watching, even if it's not great for you

                      • Because of the lack of parenting and being terminally on there is less and less interaction with positive male role model, so kids figuring themselves out latch on to anything they can find and it ends up being Tate and ilk because fear and anger sell, and they make us feel like if only we were just a bit better, we would have what the tatertots have.

                      • To combat this, we need to make morons afraid again

                      • Saying something outrageous used to cost you social capital but now everyone is too busy to care and there's been the rise of the ideal that all opinions are equal, confrontation, unless approved by the talking heads online, is bad, and everyone need to feel safe, heard, and their opinions as valid (at least to a degree)

                      • We can best deal with this weaponized misogyny by calling people out - especially kids - as it crops up. If you're a coach on a hockey team and someone starts up, shut them down. Leagues have diversity and inclusion policies - use them to back yourself up.

                      • Even if it's just someone else's kid you are around, while you may be afraid of speaking up, but chances are most parents would want to know their kid is calling women 'holes' or the like and will deal with it.

                      The only way this goes away is if we address it at every stage, and every time it comes up.

                      P This user is from outside of this forum
                      P This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote last edited by
                      #20

                      Not wanting to be that guy but there is a part missing from your list (I think) where myogeny used to be much more wide spread and much less cared about than today

                      Slapping a woman back in her place was, shall we say, less socially awkward a hundred years ago than it is today. Especially the last twenty years a lot had changed in making misogyny visible, making people losers like Andrew Tate stand out much more.

                      I'm not saying it's not a problem, I'm not saying that Andrew Tate hasn't made things worse, I'm just saying that it used to be so so much worse, still.

                      Having said that; we need to bring back responsible role models, everywhere. I grew up with good parents who were role models but I also grew up with Star Trek TNG which influenced me greatly and I'm proud of that. I grew up with practicing kyokushin Karate which taught me humility and respect, both for men and especially women because woman that practice that are humble but don't take your "I'm the guy!" shit for a second.

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                      • ssupii@sopuli.xyzS [email protected]
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                        wrote last edited by
                        #21

                        Hard pass.

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                        • ssupii@sopuli.xyzS [email protected]
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                          wrote last edited by
                          #22

                          Gary is the dad you wish you had

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          2
                          • S [email protected]

                            I wanted to get the fuck out of my home town, have crazy adventures, improve the world on my own terms, and fuck every attractive women

                            And you think that's nature, not nurture?

                            I'll be honest, that's not an experience I shared.

                            B This user is from outside of this forum
                            B This user is from outside of this forum
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                            wrote last edited by
                            #23

                            Idk, I guess you werent a punk kid growing up in the burbs.

                            I think its both, which is usually the case.

                            S 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • ssupii@sopuli.xyzS [email protected]
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                              cleocommunist@lemmy.mlC This user is from outside of this forum
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                              wrote last edited by
                              #24

                              I love using "fancy" as the way to Say you like someone

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • B [email protected]

                                Idk, I guess you werent a punk kid growing up in the burbs.

                                I think its both, which is usually the case.

                                S This user is from outside of this forum
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                                wrote last edited by
                                #25

                                Nah, more goth leaning. My black is blacker than your black.

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                                • ssupii@sopuli.xyzS [email protected]
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                                  uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zoneU This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  wrote last edited by [email protected]
                                  #26

                                  I've had way too few Garys in my life.

                                  My dad is a Bill O'Reilly / Donald Trump / William Shatner kinda guy. Now in his 80s he's total MAGA.

                                  In my twenties, I noticed I really didn't care about gender norms. Wasn't into cars or guns or football (was way into tech but this was still in the DOS age so everyone else thought tech was weird).

                                  After Trump I turned in my man card. Real men, society tells me, look like Trump, like Matt Walsh and Ben Shapiro and Joe Rogan. There are some great guys like Gary out there. But the thing that makes them great isn't their masculine representation

                                  My hero as a young adult was the NORAD officer at the beginning of Wargames ( NORAD Officer played by John Spencer, seen here) who wouldn't proceed with a nuclear launch command and kill twenty million people. A friend of mine -- and coven mate -- talks about an uncle who was a total 60s hippy in the USAF assigned as an Air Force Missileer. He openly admitted to his superiors that he wasn't going to turn that key for them no matter how dire the circumstances were. He just refused to launch a nuclear tipped ICBM at anyone. They kept him in the position anyway.

                                  This was my understanding of manhood in the 1980s. Restraint. The capacity to hold power without using it. Maybe Atticus Finch bears a rifle to put down a literal rabid dog, but never in circumstances any less dire, and the weapon is put away afterwards. Also taking care of business. To man up (related to pony up ) was to pay bills, to call the utility office to negotiate a late payment to align with a paycheck, to deal civilly with exes and rivals to make sure no one was without power or heat or food. -- And then in the 1990s all that became adulting. The bearing of responsibilities had no gender; we were all expected to do it.

                                  Except then in the late aughts came the subprime mortgage crisis, and nearly a trillion dollars was spent defying capitalist theory (that failed companies are left to collapse and their investors suffer the consequences). We learned that if you're big enough or powerful enough, you don't have to be responsible. Instead the government will bail you out, even as minimum wage wasn't keeping up with living expenses, homelessness was rising, and tax cuts to the wealthy were not recinded. It was the era of OWS, who were quietly swept away by law enforcement while the cameras were turned off. It was a sign of things to come.

                                  Now manhood is about raw power. Neitzsche was right: A living thing seeks above all to discharge its strength—life itself is Will to Power; self-preservation is only one of the indirect and most frequent results thereof. Manhood in 2025 is the privilege to assert force upon others without concern or consequence, to stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and not lose any voters.

                                  The rabid dog is afflicted. It doesn't have any choice. In 2025, manly men choose violence: They discharge their power to assert their power, showing the world how masculine they are.

                                  So I don't want anything to do with it anymore.

                                  afallinganvil@lemmy.caA 1 Reply Last reply
                                  21
                                  • ssupii@sopuli.xyzS [email protected]
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                                    rickyrigatoni@retrolemmy.comR This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #27

                                    So women don't want men to clean their netherlands. I'll remember this.

                                    mrmakabar@slrpnk.netM T 2 Replies Last reply
                                    0
                                    • rickyrigatoni@retrolemmy.comR [email protected]

                                      So women don't want men to clean their netherlands. I'll remember this.

                                      mrmakabar@slrpnk.netM This user is from outside of this forum
                                      mrmakabar@slrpnk.netM This user is from outside of this forum
                                      [email protected]
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #28

                                      The netherlands are pumped dry anyway....

                                      M 1 Reply Last reply
                                      1
                                      • mrmakabar@slrpnk.netM [email protected]

                                        The netherlands are pumped dry anyway....

                                        M This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #29

                                        Hello, Mrs. Shapiro

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • B [email protected]

                                          I mean, the problem here is that - wholesome as Gary is, young men don't want "wholesome".

                                          I know that when I was a young man, I wanted to get the fuck out of my home town, have crazy adventures, improve the world on my own terms, and fuck every attractive women that came within 1000m of me (For the record, not much jas changed...).

                                          And Gary is a nice guy with an unattractive wife, a steady job, and two kids. He spends his free time at the bar or mowing the lawn, getting fatter by the year. He likes to talk about the vacation he took to an all inclusive resort with his family a few years ago as if it was the great adventure of his life. Gary doesn't have the most amazing life, but he has enough, and he's happy.

                                          And my response to Gary as a young man would have been to appreciate his encouragement, and take his advice with a smile, and then ignore all of it because fuck that nonsense, I am getting the fuck out of this shithole. I am not going to end up like Gary! I am not going to settle for a life of bullshit mediocrity, drinking myself to an early grave while every dream I ever had whithers on the vine. And I am absofuckingloutly not going to follow in his footsteps. Come hell or high water, I will die before I end up with such a piss poor excuse for a life!!!

                                          Point being - if you want young men to take your advice rather than the advice of toxic influencers, you need to validate their desires and ambitions, rather than dismissing them and telling them to want something else. "Oh, you have goal X? Well that's wrong - you should have goal Y, and here is how I got there" is not an effective way to offer advice to anyone

                                          hark@lemmy.worldH This user is from outside of this forum
                                          hark@lemmy.worldH This user is from outside of this forum
                                          [email protected]
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #30

                                          Ironically you're getting downvoted for telling people what they don't want to hear. It's tough to compete with someone claiming "you can have all you desire". It's similar to how trump won by recognizing what his target audience wants, validating their feelings, but then putting the blame on why they can't achieve what they want based on all the wrong things.

                                          B 1 Reply Last reply
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