I'm Tired of Pretending Tech is Making the World Better
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Paying for the product and paying to not be inconvenienced by ads have become separate things. The first is standard business, the second is extortion.
Paying 80 for a product that is worth 100 and have ads is standard practice nowadays, to the point that not doing this puts you in competitive disadvantage. You are than asked to pay the remaining 20 or put up with ads.
You see this in every lemmy discussion about smart TVs. People complain that TVs have ads and there's always someone that suggest getting a "dumb" TV but complain that they are more expensive. It's almost like ads subsidize the purchase price or something...
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Honestly? Cool that you are asking, but I just want a coffee, not a conversation.
Yes, I'm German, how could you tell?
I feel the same. Find it annoying when in the US the waitress introduces herself, asks where I'm form, etc. Do you work for a diner or the CIA? Just bring me a steak with fries, medium rare, please and thank you.
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Paying 80 for a product that is worth 100 and have ads is standard practice nowadays, to the point that not doing this puts you in competitive disadvantage. You are than asked to pay the remaining 20 or put up with ads.
You see this in every lemmy discussion about smart TVs. People complain that TVs have ads and there's always someone that suggest getting a "dumb" TV but complain that they are more expensive. It's almost like ads subsidize the purchase price or something...
I disagree, I think the removal of ads is often painted as a benefit that had inherent value. Look at YouTube premium or Prime video. Both haven't actually improved their offering, just made it worse by introducing ads and insisting users that don't want to see ads have to pay for the privilege of not being advertised to.
This means the total price adds up to higher than 100% of the product value, because it's a 'premium' version that comes without advertisement inconvenience.
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I disagree about such a generalization.
There are very few instances where people decide to be dumb and use technology for it but in general my life is much better thanks to technology.
My job exists due to technology, the Internet allows me to work from home, a washing machine washes my clothes, I can order food in the middle of a meeting and have it delivered on my lunch pause, I can speak to my family half a world away everyday, with video, for free, I can have the answer to any question in seconds from my a tiny device in my pocket, my car brakes automatically if I'm distracted (and heats up before I sit down in the morning)... you get the deal.
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No problem!
Technology is constrained by the rules of the physical world, but that is an underconstraint.
Example: Let's say that there's a factory, and the factory has a machine that makes whatever. The machine takes 2 people to operate. The thing needs to get made, so that limits the number of possible designs, but there are still many open questions like, for example, should the workers face each other or face away from each other? The boss might make them face away from each other, that way they don't chat and get distracted. If the workers get to choose, they'd prefer to face each other to make the work more pleasant. In this way, the values of society are embedded in the design of the machine itself.
I struggle with the idea that a tool (like a computer) is bad because is too general purpose. Society hence the people and their values define how the tool is used. Would you elaborate on that? I’d like to understand the idea.
I love computers! It's not that they're bad, but that, because they're so general purpose, more cultural values get embedded. Like in the example above, there are decisions that aren't determined by the goals of what you're trying to accomplish, but because computers are so much more open ended than physical robots, there are more decisions like that, and you have even more leeway in how they're decided.
I agree with you that good/evil is not a productive way to think about it, just like I don't think neutrality is right either. Instead, I think that our technology contains within it a reflection of who got to make those many design decisions, like which direction should the workers sit. These decisions accumulate. I personally think that capitalism sucks, so technology under capitalism, after a few hundred years, also sucks, since that technology contains within it hundreds of years of capitalist decision-making.
factory example
Thanks. I think I get it now. Besides physical constraints (availability of resources, natural laws and the knowledge of them), society's inherent values and rules (like work safety, minimum wage, worth attributed to a group of people/ the environment / animals) affect the way things are done.
If work force is cheap and abundantly available and the workers' health or wellbeing isn't considered as too relevant the resulting solution to achieve something is very different from one with different preconditions.
computers ... because they're so general purpose, more cultural values get embedded. Like in the example above, there are decisions that aren't determined by the goals of what you're trying to accomplish, but because computers are so much more open ended than physical robots, there are more decisions like that, and you have even more leeway in how they're decided.
The moral/ social/ economic decisions which are made are affected by the opportunities which a technology has to offer? OK, yes.
The versatility of computer technology makes it a tech which can be used in many harmful ways. The potential for harm is bigger than let's say with the invention of the wheel or the plow but not as big as with nuclear fission.Responsibility for the usage of a technology and finding common rules for its usage and enforcing them... hmm.
Technology and what we do with it can't be viewed as independent aspects?
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I think a clear distinction to make might be:
“Tech” as used in this sense is the industrial complex around mobile and web technologies dominated by a few players who might just be evil.
“Technology” is, of course, everything you mentioned and more. A rock that fits nicely in your hand becomes technology when used to crack a coconut.
It’s a weird linguistic murkiness, isn’t it?
The field of language, the meaning of words in different contexts... Communication in general, they wrote books over books about it...
Yes. Murky.
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I don't agree. Technology in itself is not helpful nor harmful. It's a tool like a hammer or a knife or a pen and a block of paper.
I agree if one says that technology makes it easier to do harm.:) People and their motives and actions are the same as always, since the stone age and ago.
Technology is not neutral, and philosophers have known this since the middle of the 20th century. See for example Heidegger, Ellul, Arendt.
Technology makes us relate to the world and others in a distorted way. Instead of speaking to you directly, and see your face and features, I relate to you through pure text... A whole lot of important factors disappear as I do. Compare this then to politics, earth, society, where technology have the same effect
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I disagree about such a generalization.
There are very few instances where people decide to be dumb and use technology for it but in general my life is much better thanks to technology.
My job exists due to technology, the Internet allows me to work from home, a washing machine washes my clothes, I can order food in the middle of a meeting and have it delivered on my lunch pause, I can speak to my family half a world away everyday, with video, for free, I can have the answer to any question in seconds from my a tiny device in my pocket, my car brakes automatically if I'm distracted (and heats up before I sit down in the morning)... you get the deal.
I hear you, but the writer isn't concerned with "can": If you replaced "can have the answer to any question in seconds from my a tiny device in my pocket" with "must" then you can see their dissatisfaction.
if I went to a restaurant and was told that I had to install and use their app to order their food, I would fucking leave. If it was the only restaurant left in town then I'd have much less choice in the matter. The insidious nature of technology is that it changes "can" with "must".
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Yep, I also been growing older and I have nostalgia for old times. But I'm well aware that grass is only greener on my memory, as it has always been.
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"In some parts of the city, you can't even park your car anymore without downloading an app."
Omg, this. I left my phone at home by accident and quickly found out that I could not pay a meter on the area I went to .... You had to download an app to pay or use you phone to register a phone number and manually enter a plate and credit card.
No phone.....meant no parking.
Good luck too if your phone happens to run out of battery.
Times change. I see nothing wrong with it. Same as you used to be able to park without paying, then you started to pay, and now it's moving from those machines to phone apps.
It's just nostalgia working. Things change. You were more capable of dealing with change at a younger age and that's why you see the older the people get the more they complain about everything.
But is just a change, like many other that came before that.
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Honestly? Cool that you are asking, but I just want a coffee, not a conversation.
Yes, I'm German, how could you tell?
You can just answer "fine" and I'll be satisfied though, it's really easy to sus out who wants to chat up their barista and who just wants to go in, order, get out. I'm not seeking to force anyone into a conversation they don't want, I just want a faint acknowledgment of my humanity, you know?
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I disagree about such a generalization.
There are very few instances where people decide to be dumb and use technology for it but in general my life is much better thanks to technology.
My job exists due to technology, the Internet allows me to work from home, a washing machine washes my clothes, I can order food in the middle of a meeting and have it delivered on my lunch pause, I can speak to my family half a world away everyday, with video, for free, I can have the answer to any question in seconds from my a tiny device in my pocket, my car brakes automatically if I'm distracted (and heats up before I sit down in the morning)... you get the deal.
I agree. Tech is like fire, handle it responsibly.
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I disagree, I think the removal of ads is often painted as a benefit that had inherent value. Look at YouTube premium or Prime video. Both haven't actually improved their offering, just made it worse by introducing ads and insisting users that don't want to see ads have to pay for the privilege of not being advertised to.
This means the total price adds up to higher than 100% of the product value, because it's a 'premium' version that comes without advertisement inconvenience.
Prime video I don't know so well, but YouTube was free without ads in the beginning, for something that is incredibly expensive to run. They had to introduce any monetization or shut down the service. They went with ads because 99% of users prefer that to payment. Later they gave the option to pay to remove the ads, only as an extra, because very few people are ready to do that.
There are some ad-free video platforms out there but they have a tiny fraction of the user base of YouTube. Most people couldn't even name one, let alone considering using it, when YouTube is "free".
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I work in a coffee shop; I already feel sufficiently dehumanized by the amount of people who answer my "how are you today?" with "cappuccino to-go". I would hate to work in a café where you order via your phone.
Not everyone wants to socially interact. That's something to respect.
I tend to prioritize not-human services, as social interaction exhaust me.
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I hear you, but the writer isn't concerned with "can": If you replaced "can have the answer to any question in seconds from my a tiny device in my pocket" with "must" then you can see their dissatisfaction.
if I went to a restaurant and was told that I had to install and use their app to order their food, I would fucking leave. If it was the only restaurant left in town then I'd have much less choice in the matter. The insidious nature of technology is that it changes "can" with "must".
I agree, and good for you for leaving the restaurant. You could open a competing restaurant that doesn't use apps and let people vote with their wallets. It's not the nature of technology, its the decision of some people who are bad at knowing their customers. I don't "have to" wash my clothes in the washing machine, but you bet I won't even think about doing it manually. Forcing the use of an app is like only offering a vegan selection. If your customer didn't ask for it you are going to have a bad time. If you are the only place in town is a monopoly problem, and a different discussion.
Having to use an app to order food might be slightly annoying, but it beats working 12h a day in the field to feed my familiy. It's the firstest of first world problems.
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I don't agree. Technology in itself is not helpful nor harmful. It's a tool like a hammer or a knife or a pen and a block of paper.
I agree if one says that technology makes it easier to do harm.:) People and their motives and actions are the same as always, since the stone age and ago.
Good God you people are deep in the sauce. Just straight up ignoring the fact that tech enabled propaganda to be spammed in people's faces 24/7. It's so obviously a net drag on society at this point. But don't dare take away my dopamine rush.
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They're conflating tech with tech bros.
Tech can and does make lots of things that make our lives longer and better. Just not most of the consumer level shit that is constantly peddled by snake oil sellers. That tech is not meant to make your lives easier, it's meant to get more money out of you without giving it up to the little people at service level.
The problem isn't the tech, it's the people who are controlling the tech.
The problem isn't the tech, it's the people who are controlling the tech.
The tech is literally made by those by people. The tech itself is in fact the problem. You will never have a version of something like social media that's actually healthy. One way or the other someone with power will get their hands on it and abuse it.
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I dont know... This Linux thing is pretty great, IMO.
I get their point, but it feels like it's more about tech being abused by large corporations, trying to squeeze another cent out of you.
I feel like that's the entire point of the article. These technological "solutions" are being forced on us more and more and they are often I'll conceived. Like QR ordering only systems.
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"In some parts of the city, you can't even park your car anymore without downloading an app."
Omg, this. I left my phone at home by accident and quickly found out that I could not pay a meter on the area I went to .... You had to download an app to pay or use you phone to register a phone number and manually enter a plate and credit card.
No phone.....meant no parking.
Good luck too if your phone happens to run out of battery.
I had to give up using the lockers at the post office when they started requiring an app that my phone at the time was too old for. (I don’t really care about phones; I use other people’s hand-me-downs.) Too much of all this cleverness is just making the world more complicated, complex, and expensive. Meh. I can use my tablet now but still resent these swipey-wipey ad delivery devices.
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I agree, and good for you for leaving the restaurant. You could open a competing restaurant that doesn't use apps and let people vote with their wallets. It's not the nature of technology, its the decision of some people who are bad at knowing their customers. I don't "have to" wash my clothes in the washing machine, but you bet I won't even think about doing it manually. Forcing the use of an app is like only offering a vegan selection. If your customer didn't ask for it you are going to have a bad time. If you are the only place in town is a monopoly problem, and a different discussion.
Having to use an app to order food might be slightly annoying, but it beats working 12h a day in the field to feed my familiy. It's the firstest of first world problems.
This is the problem with capitalism. What a sick world view.
