Ford Patents A Manual Gear Shifter For EVs
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The delay between the bursts of acceleration when shifting gears give the driver an anticipatory boost of adrenaline each shift. Clunking or slamming into gear is very tactile and feels good.
And you could simulate that with am EV if you wanted. It would be pretty silly since it would just be for fun. But I do still fondly remember abusing the shit out of my manual Geo Metro...
my manual Geo Metro...
Yo, my family had a Geo Metro when I was growing up! Such a good little car.
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This is all about driver engagement, something that EVs frankly aren't as good at when compared to something like a Miata, or even an old pickup truck with a miles-long gear lever sticking up from the floor.
Manual for gas engines makes sense because it gives more control over the power band, which doesn't apply to EVs. How would making it clunkier at a detriment to performance make it more engaging?
How would making it clunkier at a detriment to performance make it more engaging?
Hyundai's Ioniq 5 N has gotten widespread praise for its simulated flappy-paddle gearbox. Not quite the same as a clutch + stick, but if they impressed so many auto journalists by simulating an automatic ICE transmission, it's definitely possible for this described system to be even more fun than that.
Driving manual cars is just plain more fun even if it's significantly slower.
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Hyundai already did it with the Ioniq 5 N, and I'm really eager to try it out someday.
I've heard both Doug Demuro and Matt Farah say that Porsche and everyone else making sporty EVs should be doing what Hyundai did, because it's apparently actually that good.
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The delay between the bursts of acceleration when shifting gears give the driver an anticipatory boost of adrenaline each shift. Clunking or slamming into gear is very tactile and feels good.
With a clutch, yeah changing gears is pretty cool. Flipper paddles on an automatic isn't like that at all though, which is what this EV shifting thing sounds like.
Yeah, to do it right would involve a lot of silly unnecessary stuff (like a stick shifter) just to make it feel good.
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This is all about driver engagement, something that EVs frankly aren't as good at when compared to something like a Miata, or even an old pickup truck with a miles-long gear lever sticking up from the floor.
Manual for gas engines makes sense because it gives more control over the power band, which doesn't apply to EVs. How would making it clunkier at a detriment to performance make it more engaging?
It would be nice if it changed the amount of regen (engine braking) and acceleration. Just like downshifting into a corner and powering out of it. I've never driven an ev, so idk if it would help with driving performance. I drove a manual for over a decade and I'm over it. I'll have fun driving anything really. I like to hit the tricky apex on the onramp every morning. The people riding my ass end up about a 1/4 mile behind me pretty quickly because they don't understand how to drive.
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The feel of driving manual is more visceral and enjoyable to car enthusiasts. If that's not you, there's no point.
I've driven manual cars, including a 328i for many years. I loved that 6 speed. But it was engaging because it was a mechanical necessity. Faking this entire experience seems absurd. It would be like adding vestigial pedals to a jet pack because you also happen to like riding bikes.
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Electric race cars have gears. Torque/acceleration vs top speed. There is a small efficiency boost for a regular car go go at high rpm and low load, but it also can have a noise disadvantage. A more powerful motor will outperform a transmission at lower expense, but transmission can get up a crazy hill or significantly improve 0-100kph time.
With all of this I predict racing well get faster
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Stupid.
Build the car on its own merits.
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Well, yes. Same as a real manual transmission in this day and age.
If all you want is the most efficient transportation then it’s better to take the train.
No, a real manual transmission on the vast majority of cars is still more engaging and efficient than automatic because you have more control over the gear in corners and betger control over the power band at slower speeds. Some automatics are faster at acceleration, but cornering is always better in a manual.
Yes, a train/subway is more efficient than any car invluding EVs.
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I've driven manual cars, including a 328i for many years. I loved that 6 speed. But it was engaging because it was a mechanical necessity. Faking this entire experience seems absurd. It would be like adding vestigial pedals to a jet pack because you also happen to like riding bikes.
I'll reserve my judgement until I try one. I've had my Porsche 914 for 20 years, and have had a plethora of other manuals alongside it. I am skeptical, but willing to hope the experience can be emulated.
When my engine finally blows, I'll consider a conversion to electric doe the old girl.
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No, a real manual transmission on the vast majority of cars is still more engaging and efficient than automatic because you have more control over the gear in corners and betger control over the power band at slower speeds. Some automatics are faster at acceleration, but cornering is always better in a manual.
Yes, a train/subway is more efficient than any car invluding EVs.
Engaging — very much so, at least for me personally
Performant — mixed story. in cheap cars like my Honda Fit where the alternative is a CV transmission, manual performs way better. In sports cars where the alternative is a dual-clutch, I think the automatics have been beating the manual on the track for a few years now.
Efficient — I think we lost that battle on all fronts since some years back
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Stupid.
Build the car on its own merits.
The one positive thing patents do is prevent every single manufacturer from independently flooding the market with the same brain dead idea.
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Stupid.
Build the car on its own merits.
After reading the article, I agree.
If you're going to put a stick shift in an electric car, at least make it functional, instead of just hindering the performance of the car. (Like use different-sized motors for different gears or something.)
This is just as dumb as CVTs that do fake shifts because of idiots who freak out when they see their engine holding a certain RPM 'cause they don't understand how they work. Reminds me of the early days of the automobile where they considered attaching a fake horse head to the front of the vehicle:
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Is this just pointless noise or is it also a pointless temporary drop in acceleration?
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It would be nice if it changed the amount of regen (engine braking) and acceleration. Just like downshifting into a corner and powering out of it. I've never driven an ev, so idk if it would help with driving performance. I drove a manual for over a decade and I'm over it. I'll have fun driving anything really. I like to hit the tricky apex on the onramp every morning. The people riding my ass end up about a 1/4 mile behind me pretty quickly because they don't understand how to drive.
Gears are important with an internal combustion engine because at low revs they have less torque and the high end you run out of speed headroom, so if you're going slowly you can boost your acceleration by changing the gear ratio and when you near your maximum rpm, you can change up to boost your acceleration.
It's pleasing because you regain the ability to accelerate and it feels nice to be able to press the pedal and feel the acceleration of the car.
In an EV you can do that at absolutely any time, it doesn't depend on what you do with your other hand or your other foot, so there's never any delay at all between a decision and a zoom.
This is why an EV is so much fun to drive for me.
In an EV the accelerator pedal just never feels spongy and unresponsive. It was never the preparation for acceleration that I enjoyed, it was the acceleration. I test drove some EVs that have a drive mode you can select that replicates the feel of an ICE car off the line. I characterise this as spongy and unresponsive and I don't know why anyone likes it at all.
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What exactly can they parent here? Hyundai already make the software and SIM racers have been making the hardware for like a decade now.
Don't get me wrong it sounds fun. This just doesn't seem novel enough to validate a patent.
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Gears are important with an internal combustion engine because at low revs they have less torque and the high end you run out of speed headroom, so if you're going slowly you can boost your acceleration by changing the gear ratio and when you near your maximum rpm, you can change up to boost your acceleration.
It's pleasing because you regain the ability to accelerate and it feels nice to be able to press the pedal and feel the acceleration of the car.
In an EV you can do that at absolutely any time, it doesn't depend on what you do with your other hand or your other foot, so there's never any delay at all between a decision and a zoom.
This is why an EV is so much fun to drive for me.
In an EV the accelerator pedal just never feels spongy and unresponsive. It was never the preparation for acceleration that I enjoyed, it was the acceleration. I test drove some EVs that have a drive mode you can select that replicates the feel of an ICE car off the line. I characterise this as spongy and unresponsive and I don't know why anyone likes it at all.
I guess sometimes I want decreased pedal input to slow the car down more than other times, and sometimes I want increased pedal input to accelerate more than others. Traction control solves this for the most part though. I'll have to get ahold of an ev and see what it's like. Winter driving is one of the times where I did prefer a manual so that lifting the throttle didn't mean losing control, but I guess I've never had a car with modern traction control either.
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I'll reserve my judgement until I try one. I've had my Porsche 914 for 20 years, and have had a plethora of other manuals alongside it. I am skeptical, but willing to hope the experience can be emulated.
When my engine finally blows, I'll consider a conversion to electric doe the old girl.
I don't see how it can be worthwhile without a clutch pedal though since that is the heart of the manual experience. This is just adding a handheld input that modifies the accelerator response in a way that seems to mimic the quirks of an entirely different mechanical system (that being the paddle style shifters of automatic transmissions, not actual manuals). These at least served some purpose by giving the driver more control over shift points. Now imagine you never drove a manual or used paddle shifters in the first place, which is becoming the norm.
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I don't see how it can be worthwhile without a clutch pedal though since that is the heart of the manual experience. This is just adding a handheld input that modifies the accelerator response in a way that seems to mimic the quirks of an entirely different mechanical system (that being the paddle style shifters of automatic transmissions, not actual manuals). These at least served some purpose by giving the driver more control over shift points. Now imagine you never drove a manual or used paddle shifters in the first place, which is becoming the norm.
I take it you never drove a VW autostick.
