Why should I continue to financially support the development of Lemmy when the developers operate .ml, an instance that is a prime example of arbitrary censorship?
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Just to be real:
Every instance is an example of arbitrary censorship. It's just that .ml is specifically about a kind of censorship you don't like.
All that said, there is no "should". Donations are voluntary, they are not the only way to contribute to the development of the fediverse, and there is already both alternatives and competition, and you could support those instead. I hear Pixelfed is making the rounds.
I hear Pixelfed is making the rounds.
I think you meant Piefed. Pixelfed exists too, but that is more Instagram-style. Piefed feels pretty similar to Lemmy, just written in Python.
I personally like how Mbin integrates with Mastodon. Or at least the idea. I can't figure out how to search up a specific Mastodon user.
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Please create an account on PieFed if you don't already have one. Let's keep the momentum of more and more users migrating to PieFed. Also help contribute content to other instances so we can reduce .ml influences.
By the way, piefed.blahaj.zone is a thing.
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I understand that, but the Lemmy developers are deeply rooted in .ml. I just wonder whether it makes sense to support that. I am aware that this is FOSS, but there is no transparency as to whether my support actually ends up in the software development or perhaps in .ml, which I do not want to support.
Then the next best thing to do is to support instances directly. I'd guess most of them have a tip jar or donation box.
Be aware that if supporting unsavory people is your issue, you might want to skip some payment processors and pay the instance hoster directly. Some payment processors, like PayPal or Stripe, are into some unsavory stuff such as targetting sex workers, or appropriating your savings if you post speech they disagree with, or blocking access to service in countries of the third world.
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I hear Pixelfed is making the rounds.
I think you meant Piefed. Pixelfed exists too, but that is more Instagram-style. Piefed feels pretty similar to Lemmy, just written in Python.
I personally like how Mbin integrates with Mastodon. Or at least the idea. I can't figure out how to search up a specific Mastodon user.
Piefex! Pixelfie! Fedfed! I always get them mixed up!!!! I'm Fedfed up with it! XD
Thanks for the notice.
Also interesting note on mbin, I tend to forget it can do that and it has also a lot of other niceties, but I have experimented very little with mbin.
My account sits 3 weeks unused -
My question simply relates to whether I can support the software development without supporting lemmy.ml.
No. You can't support Lemmy without supporting lemmy.ml because the developers use lemmy.ml for testing. They have not created a means for users to separate out their donations from one or the other.
That's why others are suggesting you should just support a different but similar fediverse project like PieFed or Mbin instead.
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Just to be real:
Every instance is an example of arbitrary censorship. It's just that .ml is specifically about a kind of censorship you don't like.
All that said, there is no "should". Donations are voluntary, they are not the only way to contribute to the development of the fediverse, and there is already both alternatives and competition, and you could support those instead. I hear Pixelfed is making the rounds.
Thank you. People seem perfectly happy with lemmy.world blacklisting lemmy.ml altogether and such because it's censorship that they agree with, people generally only get cranky in the pants about censorship when they agree with the thing being censored.
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Please convince me that I should continue my support or advice what I can do. I'm prepared to do my part, but I can only do so if I can be sure that my support is not going to people who think arbitrary Censorship is alright (needs to be based on objective community rules and not on the political agenda of mods).
You shouldn't. Support your instance or something idk.
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There is no way to convince a person who is raised in a capitalist system why "arbitrary censorship" is way better than "democracy" where all significant media is capitalist owned.
I was brought up under arbitrary censorship. Democracy where all significant media is capitalist-owned is much better.
It isn't, look out a window
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Please convince me that I should continue my support or advice what I can do. I'm prepared to do my part, but I can only do so if I can be sure that my support is not going to people who think arbitrary Censorship is alright (needs to be based on objective community rules and not on the political agenda of mods).
It's not arbitrary, you're just upset.
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Please convince me that I should continue my support or advice what I can do. I'm prepared to do my part, but I can only do so if I can be sure that my support is not going to people who think arbitrary Censorship is alright (needs to be based on objective community rules and not on the political agenda of mods).
Piefed is growing
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Please convince me that I should continue my support or advice what I can do. I'm prepared to do my part, but I can only do so if I can be sure that my support is not going to people who think arbitrary Censorship is alright (needs to be based on objective community rules and not on the political agenda of mods).
wrote on last edited by [email protected]At the end of the day you need to decide what kind of person you are. Are you pragmatic or idealistic? Are you able to separate art from artist and creation from creator? Should you support a good open source service created for the betterment of everyone if you dont like the politics of its developers?
I'm a pragmatist by nature. I believe that a useful tool remains a useful tool even when its crafted by tankie assholes. If I found out the maker of a computer command like sudo was a leninist or whatever I wouldnt go out of my way to install an alternative just because I dont agree with the batshit politics of the creator. Just like I wouldn't stop enjoying a song after finding out the ones who made it were greedy egotistical dickheads in personal life.
Young and politically charged idealist love that online social justice warrior signalling and political identity posturing. Everythings gotta be us vs them culture war, with us needing to always be on the morally/politically high ground else your a filthy inhuman nazi them who must be refunded/canceled. You get older and realize most people no matter the lean have some level of dogshit half baked politics or some other degree of mental emotional whackiness from past trauma or poor life circumstances causing them to be imperfect animals with dumb fucking biases. That's humanity and the heart of darkness for ya. You can choose to associate the imperfections of the creator with the creation, or you can try to decouple them and see them as separate entities linked by causality.
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At the end of the day you need to decide what kind of person you are. Are you pragmatic or idealistic? Are you able to separate art from artist and creation from creator? Should you support a good open source service created for the betterment of everyone if you dont like the politics of its developers?
I'm a pragmatist by nature. I believe that a useful tool remains a useful tool even when its crafted by tankie assholes. If I found out the maker of a computer command like sudo was a leninist or whatever I wouldnt go out of my way to install an alternative just because I dont agree with the batshit politics of the creator. Just like I wouldn't stop enjoying a song after finding out the ones who made it were greedy egotistical dickheads in personal life.
Young and politically charged idealist love that online social justice warrior signalling and political identity posturing. Everythings gotta be us vs them culture war, with us needing to always be on the morally/politically high ground else your a filthy inhuman nazi them who must be refunded/canceled. You get older and realize most people no matter the lean have some level of dogshit half baked politics or some other degree of mental emotional whackiness from past trauma or poor life circumstances causing them to be imperfect animals with dumb fucking biases. That's humanity and the heart of darkness for ya. You can choose to associate the imperfections of the creator with the creation, or you can try to decouple them and see them as separate entities linked by causality.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I will consider the matter further.
It is exactly as you say: Lemmy is, of course, excellent and absolutely worthy of support. I am just not entirely sure whether my contribution will actually end up in development. However, I will have to live with this uncertainty. I just find it problematic that .ml stands for pretty much the opposite of why I want to support Lemmy — namely, free discourse free from political influence by the platform itself. That's simply not the case with .ml, because their moderators only allow their own narrow-minded views — and I fear that this approach is supported by the developers.
Nevertheless, the software itself remains worthy of support, you're absolutely right about that.
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Please convince me that I should continue my support or advice what I can do. I'm prepared to do my part, but I can only do so if I can be sure that my support is not going to people who think arbitrary Censorship is alright (needs to be based on objective community rules and not on the political agenda of mods).
If they had developed a centralised bit of software such as Twitter or Reddit you'd have a point. In that case you can't support one without the other.
On a decentralised bit of software you can support the developers and spend your time on an instance they have no control over. So supporting the developers for development is not the same as supporting any particular instance - thats why a lot of instances accept donations too.
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If they had developed a centralised bit of software such as Twitter or Reddit you'd have a point. In that case you can't support one without the other.
On a decentralised bit of software you can support the developers and spend your time on an instance they have no control over. So supporting the developers for development is not the same as supporting any particular instance - thats why a lot of instances accept donations too.
Except there is no separation in where the money goes
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Except there is no separation in where the money goes
Not the point. The issue OP has is with the instance .ml - if they are donating to the developers then they're contributing towards development costs which affect both .ml and every other instance. If that's too much of a hurdle for them, maybe they could switch to donating to their instance admin.
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Not the point. The issue OP has is with the instance .ml - if they are donating to the developers then they're contributing towards development costs which affect both .ml and every other instance. If that's too much of a hurdle for them, maybe they could switch to donating to their instance admin.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]There should be a way to donate to development of Lemmy and it not go to ml but there is not that option because just goes to desalines and he clearly spends his time power tripping as mod of ml.
Donating to your instance admin is great but that is not furthering the development of Lemmy, it is ensuring your instance endures.
I have donated to all (my app, my instance as well as others, and lemmy dev) but i am not happy with the fact that last one means i have donated to ml and the issue IS there is currently no way around that. That IS the issue, and is why piefed is growing.
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There should be a way to donate to development of Lemmy and it not go to ml but there is not that option because just goes to desalines and he clearly spends his time power tripping as mod of ml.
Donating to your instance admin is great but that is not furthering the development of Lemmy, it is ensuring your instance endures.
I have donated to all (my app, my instance as well as others, and lemmy dev) but i am not happy with the fact that last one means i have donated to ml and the issue IS there is currently no way around that. That IS the issue, and is why piefed is growing.
"that option because just goes to desalines"
Who is the developer of the software. How they choose to develop Lemmy is up to them - you do have a choice though. Support them or don't. What no one who donates has a choice over is how the developers choose to use the development funds they receive.
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"that option because just goes to desalines"
Who is the developer of the software. How they choose to develop Lemmy is up to them - you do have a choice though. Support them or don't. What no one who donates has a choice over is how the developers choose to use the development funds they receive.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]No more money from me then. Simple as
I paid a couple hundred in the past and done going forward
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Please convince me that I should continue my support or advice what I can do. I'm prepared to do my part, but I can only do so if I can be sure that my support is not going to people who think arbitrary Censorship is alright (needs to be based on objective community rules and not on the political agenda of mods).
Why should I convince you for free?
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Please convince me that I should continue my support or advice what I can do. I'm prepared to do my part, but I can only do so if I can be sure that my support is not going to people who think arbitrary Censorship is alright (needs to be based on objective community rules and not on the political agenda of mods).
You are supporting the development and technology. That is the great thing about the Fediverse, you go where you want to be, but can reach out to other isolated communities and take the parts that you want and need.
The developers of Lemmy created this specific platform and are improving it. Since Mastodon started, everyone wanted a Reddit replacement, we now have it.
From the Fediverse I have now made life long friends and we have private Matrix chats. Without servers with sepcific communities, I would never have met them.
