What do you think is the biggest issue with Lemmy?
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Maybe you should re-read my original comment? Because unless you think that Lemmy is not a left wing echo chamber then I have no clue what you're arguing about here exactly.
OK, have crawled up the context tree, and don't see where you think I've misunderstood your point. You think it's an echo chamber (I do not) and you think that's bad (I do not) and apparently I'm supposed to feel a little sheepish about not wanting shitty people with shitty behavior here at Lemmy. (I do not.)
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Maybe I misread you. I think I'm being told not only that it is an echo chamber, but that I'm supposed to be bothered by it.
Meanwhile I haven't seen an argument for what we'd gain by having more conservatives here, or what's stopping those unicorn conservatives who aren't raging assholes from posting.
The issue with echo chambers is that they reinforce people’s existing beliefs instead of challenging them. That often comes with extreme hostility toward anyone who doesn’t share those beliefs. If the left in the US wants to win elections they need people to vote for them who might have voted right in the past. In order to achieve this, minds needs to be changed, and that doesn't happen in echo chambers. I’m sure you can see the value in a left-leaning person going to a place like Truth Social and, in a calm and respectful way, arguing against the claims they disagree with. Well, in my view, Lemmy could use something similar.
I also don’t think right-wingers are the only ones to blame when it comes to the breakdown of polite discussion. If you put someone who feels just as strongly about the left as people here feel about the right, it’s no surprise it turns into a mudslinging match. It takes two to tango.
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I think there is a feature request to allow communities to subscribe to other communities so that their posts and comments are synced.
Great, so the duplication happens automatically! This is solving the wrong problem, IMHO...
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The issue with echo chambers is that they reinforce people’s existing beliefs instead of challenging them. That often comes with extreme hostility toward anyone who doesn’t share those beliefs. If the left in the US wants to win elections they need people to vote for them who might have voted right in the past. In order to achieve this, minds needs to be changed, and that doesn't happen in echo chambers. I’m sure you can see the value in a left-leaning person going to a place like Truth Social and, in a calm and respectful way, arguing against the claims they disagree with. Well, in my view, Lemmy could use something similar.
I also don’t think right-wingers are the only ones to blame when it comes to the breakdown of polite discussion. If you put someone who feels just as strongly about the left as people here feel about the right, it’s no surprise it turns into a mudslinging match. It takes two to tango.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I’m sure you can see the value in a left-leaning person going to a place like Truth Social and, in a calm and respectful way, arguing against the claims they disagree with. Well, in my view, Lemmy could use something similar.
In my view, again, nothing is stopping them. They either know how to have an adult discussion or they don't. Plenty of people on Lemmy who also disagree with them will back them up for that if they can actually have an adult conversation. Probably even me, but since I've not seen that happen yet, tough to say!
I also don’t think right-wingers are the only ones to blame when it comes to the breakdown of polite discussion.
You are entitled to your own opinion.
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Note that this is the second statement he made, which he had to make after being called out by the media for seemingly supporting the neonazi protestors. Which, given his history at that point and subsequently, it's pretty obvious that the media was right and he was just back tracking due to bad publicity.
This is where the "fine people on both sides" quote originates from.
Snopes article on the matter.
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This is where the "fine people on both sides" quote originates from.
Snopes article on the matter.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Yeah, and it specifically ignores that the statement you posted was the second, clarifying statement days later. Snopes is going off what he said he meant, not actually what he said. Check the United the Right wiki page for the actual timeline.
Stop letting other people think for you.
Trump did not respond to the torchlight parade on Friday night or the demonstrations on Saturday morning until 1:19 pm on Saturday, August 12, when he tweeted, "We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!"[284][33]
At the bill-signing ceremony, Trump said that "we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides".[284][33][288][289] He added that it had been "going on for a long time in our country. Not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. A long, long time" and that "a swift restoration of law and order" was now vital.[289]
A statement attributed to an unnamed White House spokesperson was released the next day, asserting that "The President said very strongly in his statement yesterday that he condemns all forms of violence, bigotry, and hatred. Of course that includes white supremacists, KKK, Neo-Nazi and all extremist groups. He called for national unity and bringing all Americans together
...
After the backlash for his remarks, Trump read a statement from a teleprompter two days later at the White House.[310][292] He said that "anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence, you will be held fully accountable."[287] and that "[r]acism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the K.K.K., neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans."[311]
The closest they have is the unattributed statement, again after the fact, trying to clarify what he said wasn't what he meant. Like they always do.
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This seems to be a reply to another comment.
It's a reply to your comment about downotes. The point of votes is to rank threads, and the point of ranking threads is to promote cogent comments and avoid irrelevance, misinformation, and malice. I do this in real life and I do it here.
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Yeah, and it specifically ignores that the statement you posted was the second, clarifying statement days later. Snopes is going off what he said he meant, not actually what he said. Check the United the Right wiki page for the actual timeline.
Stop letting other people think for you.
Trump did not respond to the torchlight parade on Friday night or the demonstrations on Saturday morning until 1:19 pm on Saturday, August 12, when he tweeted, "We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!"[284][33]
At the bill-signing ceremony, Trump said that "we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides".[284][33][288][289] He added that it had been "going on for a long time in our country. Not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. A long, long time" and that "a swift restoration of law and order" was now vital.[289]
A statement attributed to an unnamed White House spokesperson was released the next day, asserting that "The President said very strongly in his statement yesterday that he condemns all forms of violence, bigotry, and hatred. Of course that includes white supremacists, KKK, Neo-Nazi and all extremist groups. He called for national unity and bringing all Americans together
...
After the backlash for his remarks, Trump read a statement from a teleprompter two days later at the White House.[310][292] He said that "anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence, you will be held fully accountable."[287] and that "[r]acism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the K.K.K., neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans."[311]
The closest they have is the unattributed statement, again after the fact, trying to clarify what he said wasn't what he meant. Like they always do.
But it’s this very specific quote that people are misrepresenting. It’s not like he first said “there were fine people on both sides” and then, a few days later, clarified that he wasn’t talking about the Nazis. He said there were fine people on both sides and explicitly added that he was not referring to the Nazis - and it’s that latter part people omit when they spread the “fine people on both sides” quote.
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Duplicate communities posting the same content over and over again.
Communities are tied to an instance. How many communities will die because lemm.ee is shutting down? There is a slightly mad rush to migrate communities already.
Lemmy should have used usent style naming for communities.
Lemmy uses ActivityPub, so that can't really be done in line with the spec.
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Not enough people for even slightly niche communities. Wanna talk about smash brothers ? 732 people, only 2 posts in the last month.
This is why people still use reddit on the side.
slightly niche
Sports is like the most mainstream of interests, and lemmy still doesn't have a critical mass of sports discussion in general, much less specific sports/leagues, specific teams, specific games/matches, or specific players.
So I keep my reddit sports account.
I also keep an account for my local city subreddit, and one for my career field, because Lemmy doesn't have those either.
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It does, since it still federates with lemmy.ml...
I think the parent comment is talking about piefed the software, compared to Lemmy the software, not the specific
piefed.socialinstance they're posting from. -
Misrepresenting what someone says is a textbook example of bad faith so doing that in a discussion about bad faith is ironic to say the least. What he actually thinks is unrelated to this discussion as it's about what he said. You'd call people out for twisting your words so hold yourself to the same standards.
Not believing lying sociopaths is not bad faith, and I'm having trouble accepting that you'd actually think it is. I'm not sure why you're so hung up on mango mussolini anyway, as this discussion started when I claimed that the right lied way more than the left. The president wasn't responsible for all the lies the GOP has told for the past 50 years, although he sure does have more than his fair share.
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But it’s this very specific quote that people are misrepresenting. It’s not like he first said “there were fine people on both sides” and then, a few days later, clarified that he wasn’t talking about the Nazis. He said there were fine people on both sides and explicitly added that he was not referring to the Nazis - and it’s that latter part people omit when they spread the “fine people on both sides” quote.
Because he made that clarification after the fact from a scripted statement and an anonymous white house person.
But it’s this very specific quote that people are misrepresenting. It’s not like he first said “there were fine people on both sides” and then, a few days later, clarified that he wasn’t talking about the Nazis.
Please stop acting like you know what happened. His unscripted comments did not include that, full stop.
Again, please stop letting people think for you. Here is the full statement in context. He unequivocally did not denounce the Nazis in his first statement, he gave generic statements about hate having no place in America, which is not the same as what you're falsely saying.
But we're closely following the terrible events unfolding in Charlottesville, Virginia. We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides. It's been going on for a long time in our country. Not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. This has been going on for a long, long time.
It has no place in America. What is vital now is a swift restoration of law and order and the protection of innocent lives. No citizen should ever fear for their safety and security in our society, and no child should ever be afraid to go outside and play, or be with their parents, and have a good time.
I just got off the phone with the Governor of Virginia, Terry McAuliffe, and we agreed that the hate and the division must stop, and must stop right now. We have to come together as Americans with love for our nation and true affection -- really -- and I say this so strongly -- true affection for each other.
Our country is doing very well in so many ways. We have record -- just absolute record employment. We have unemployment, the lowest it's been in almost 17 years. We have companies pouring into our country. Foxconn and car companies, and so many others, they're coming back to our country. We're renegotiating trade deals to make them great for our country and great for the American worker. We have so many incredible things happening in our country. So when I watch Charlottesville, to me it's very, very sad.
I want to salute the great work of the state and local police in Virginia -- incredible people -- law enforcement, incredible people -- and also the National Guard. They've really been working smart and working hard. They've been doing a terrific job. The federal authorities are also providing tremendous support to the governor. He thanked me for that. And we are here to provide whatever other assistance is needed. We are ready, willing, and able.
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lemmy.ml and its admins being the developers at the same time.
Tankies on their way to hate private ownership and dictatorship of the bourgeoisie so much that they begin to love state ownership and dictatorship of the bureacracy
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We need more users, to do that we need more advertising.
I was waiting to leave reddit for like a year before i found out about lemmy.
There's no way the twitter clone Bluesky should have absorbed the fleeing reddit users instead of this space that functions just like reddit.
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Forums still exist, but I hard agree with you. I was so excited when the lemmy devs were considering hiding votes counts from the frontend by default. Unfortunately (imo) it got shot down by the community pretty quickly.
I think "likes" as a socials concept are part of a dark engagement pattern we've willfully brought over from the mainstream, and we won't be able to be much better than them until we're rid of it.
Yeah, I am on... two forums. I think the issue is that it's not where the people are any more.
I actually think the problem with voting is that the way it's used to promote threads instead of doing it on a time basis. It's part of a way of engaging with a site which punishes long-running conversations.
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Because he made that clarification after the fact from a scripted statement and an anonymous white house person.
But it’s this very specific quote that people are misrepresenting. It’s not like he first said “there were fine people on both sides” and then, a few days later, clarified that he wasn’t talking about the Nazis.
Please stop acting like you know what happened. His unscripted comments did not include that, full stop.
Again, please stop letting people think for you. Here is the full statement in context. He unequivocally did not denounce the Nazis in his first statement, he gave generic statements about hate having no place in America, which is not the same as what you're falsely saying.
But we're closely following the terrible events unfolding in Charlottesville, Virginia. We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides. It's been going on for a long time in our country. Not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. This has been going on for a long, long time.
It has no place in America. What is vital now is a swift restoration of law and order and the protection of innocent lives. No citizen should ever fear for their safety and security in our society, and no child should ever be afraid to go outside and play, or be with their parents, and have a good time.
I just got off the phone with the Governor of Virginia, Terry McAuliffe, and we agreed that the hate and the division must stop, and must stop right now. We have to come together as Americans with love for our nation and true affection -- really -- and I say this so strongly -- true affection for each other.
Our country is doing very well in so many ways. We have record -- just absolute record employment. We have unemployment, the lowest it's been in almost 17 years. We have companies pouring into our country. Foxconn and car companies, and so many others, they're coming back to our country. We're renegotiating trade deals to make them great for our country and great for the American worker. We have so many incredible things happening in our country. So when I watch Charlottesville, to me it's very, very sad.
I want to salute the great work of the state and local police in Virginia -- incredible people -- law enforcement, incredible people -- and also the National Guard. They've really been working smart and working hard. They've been doing a terrific job. The federal authorities are also providing tremendous support to the governor. He thanked me for that. And we are here to provide whatever other assistance is needed. We are ready, willing, and able.
His unscripted comments did not include that, full stop.
Nor did they include the "fine people on both sides" comment that people are misquoting.
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Not believing lying sociopaths is not bad faith, and I'm having trouble accepting that you'd actually think it is. I'm not sure why you're so hung up on mango mussolini anyway, as this discussion started when I claimed that the right lied way more than the left. The president wasn't responsible for all the lies the GOP has told for the past 50 years, although he sure does have more than his fair share.
You're misquoting him - that's bad faith. Whether or not you believe him is a separate issue. When you criticize someone for what they said, you should address their actual words - not your interpretation of them.
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I don't think that in itself if the problem. anyone can host an instance. The problem is lemmy.ml being the apparent default instance, advertising itself as an instance for privacy and FOSS enthusiasts, and not mentioning seemingly anywhere in the description/rules that only red flavour authoritarian dogma is allowed in political discussion.
"America bad, therefore former 'communist' russia and current 'communist' china good."
Edit: it's not featured as prominently as it used to be on join-lemmy.org so things may be improving. they should still mention in the description that western viewpoints on many issues are not allowed due to "rule 1"
Huh, just checked out the ranking on join-lemmy.org. The default setting is "random", which might be why it's not featured up top.
But what's weird is that lemmy.world isn't in the ranking at all.
If you sort by active, the top two are lemmynsfw.com, followed by lemmy.ml.
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What is genuine political discussion? How do you moderate it? Who is going to come when it's moderated? How do you deal with both legitimate and legitimate complaints about biased moderation?
I just don't think it's a thing on social media. I think it can happen in private conversations, but as soon as it becomes more about winning an argument or posturing for readers, I think any hope of earnest discourse is lost. The more public a conversation, the worse it is. It's like trying to argue with a bully in front of their friends. You might be able to reach the humanity in them, but not in that moment.
It used to be, in the early days of mass social media (and it was widespread on forums)
Moderation isn't easy but it also needn't be fraught - set standards of civility (strict or loose) and basic rules about hate speech, and let people take themselves out of discussions that are within the rules that they nevertheless don't like.
It works a lot better in small communities where you talk to the same people - you can ignore people you don't like and not have the same conversation over and over.
