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  3. Mozilla under fire for Firefox AI "bloat" that blows up CPU and drains battery

Mozilla under fire for Firefox AI "bloat" that blows up CPU and drains battery

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  • B [email protected]

    The pathological need to find something to use LLMs for is so bizzare.

    It’s like the opposite of classic ML, relatively tiny special purpose models trained for something critical, out of desperation, because it just can’t be done well conventionally.

    But this:

    AI-enhanced tab groups. Powered by a local AI model, these groups identify related tabs and suggest names for them. There is even a "Suggest more tabs for group" button that users can click to get recommendations.

    Take out the word AI.

    Enhanced tab groups. Powered by a local algorithm, these groups identify related tabs and suggest names for them. There is even a "Suggest more tabs for group" button that users can click to get recommendations.

    If this feature took, say, a gigabyte of RAM and a bunch of CPU, it would be laughed out. But somehow it ships because it has the word AI in it? That makes no sense.

    I am a massive local LLM advocate. I like “generative” ML, within reason and ethics. But this is just stupid.

    A This user is from outside of this forum
    A This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote last edited by
    #30

    even without AI, to me tab groups are already feature creep bloat in browsers. do people really put that much effort into organizing tabs?

    jackbydev@programming.devJ exu@feditown.comE mr_satan@lemmy.zipM tabular@lemmy.worldT recursiveparadox@lemmy.worldR 7 Replies Last reply
    7
    • E [email protected]

      Sounds kind a jupyter lab issue

      nathan@piefed.alphapuggle.devN This user is from outside of this forum
      nathan@piefed.alphapuggle.devN This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote last edited by
      #31

      Julyterlab has been pinned for multiple versions now and the issue only started happening on the latest Firefox update. Still works fine in chromium

      1 Reply Last reply
      4
      • P [email protected]

        Instead of capitalising on Google pissing off power users with its crusade against adblockers, why the hell is Mozilla fucking up so hard here? Seriously, which chain of command green lit all of this and didn't even think this would be remotely an issue?

        A This user is from outside of this forum
        A This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote last edited by
        #32

        Even if they wanted to bank on the adblocker thing I imagine they can't because they have to stay in Google's good graces. Like 90% of their revenue was google money, and has been for years now.

        At this point I'd honestly even pay for a privacy focused mozilla browser that is clean of all this crap, just to keep them afloat, but fat chance of that happening.

        P 1 Reply Last reply
        3
        • A [email protected]

          even without AI, to me tab groups are already feature creep bloat in browsers. do people really put that much effort into organizing tabs?

          jackbydev@programming.devJ This user is from outside of this forum
          jackbydev@programming.devJ This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote last edited by
          #33

          No, but I think the idea of a second layer of organization to tabs is a wonderful idea. Maybe not a gig of RAM to sort them, sure.

          B 1 Reply Last reply
          8
          • jackbydev@programming.devJ [email protected]

            No, but I think the idea of a second layer of organization to tabs is a wonderful idea. Maybe not a gig of RAM to sort them, sure.

            B This user is from outside of this forum
            B This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote last edited by [email protected]
            #34

            FF already has tab groups. Right click on one.

            jackbydev@programming.devJ 1 Reply Last reply
            2
            • A [email protected]

              even without AI, to me tab groups are already feature creep bloat in browsers. do people really put that much effort into organizing tabs?

              exu@feditown.comE This user is from outside of this forum
              exu@feditown.comE This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote last edited by
              #35

              I like the tab groups. I use them often at work to group an issue with related tabs and my attempts at solving it. Also makes it easier to pause work on one problem and work on something else because I have the tabs grouper and know exactly where to go back.

              woelkchen@lemmy.worldW 1 Reply Last reply
              17
              • G [email protected]

                The pathological need to find something to use LLMs for is so bizzare.

                Venture capital dumped so much money into the tech without understanding the full scope of what it was capable of. Now they're so in so deep that they desperately NEED to find something profitable it can do, otherwise they'll lose the farm.

                B This user is from outside of this forum
                B This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote last edited by
                #36

                Firefox has little financial motivation for this, though?

                Other than getting "AI" investor money, if that's the plan... But otherwise it just feels like they're following a meme.

                W a_wild_mimic_appears@lemmy.dbzer0.comA 2 Replies Last reply
                15
                • A [email protected]

                  even without AI, to me tab groups are already feature creep bloat in browsers. do people really put that much effort into organizing tabs?

                  mr_satan@lemmy.zipM This user is from outside of this forum
                  mr_satan@lemmy.zipM This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote last edited by [email protected]
                  #37

                  Yes, especially at work. Different tasks, different tab groups. Once the task is done, the group dies. Really useful when working on multiple tasks at "the same time".

                  Pair that with multi account containers and temporary containers and it's a godsend tool for web dev.

                  Now does that need AI in any capacity? Absolutely not! I'm more upset that they're even considering such thing because ir sounds utterly useless. A browser should do the browser thing and get out of my way.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  6
                  • B [email protected]

                    The pathological need to find something to use LLMs for is so bizzare.

                    It’s like the opposite of classic ML, relatively tiny special purpose models trained for something critical, out of desperation, because it just can’t be done well conventionally.

                    But this:

                    AI-enhanced tab groups. Powered by a local AI model, these groups identify related tabs and suggest names for them. There is even a "Suggest more tabs for group" button that users can click to get recommendations.

                    Take out the word AI.

                    Enhanced tab groups. Powered by a local algorithm, these groups identify related tabs and suggest names for them. There is even a "Suggest more tabs for group" button that users can click to get recommendations.

                    If this feature took, say, a gigabyte of RAM and a bunch of CPU, it would be laughed out. But somehow it ships because it has the word AI in it? That makes no sense.

                    I am a massive local LLM advocate. I like “generative” ML, within reason and ethics. But this is just stupid.

                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote last edited by
                    #38

                    I agree with you on almost everything.

                    It’s like the opposite of classic ML, relatively tiny special purpose models trained for something critical, out of desperation, because it just can’t be done well conventionally.

                    Here i disagree. ML is using high dimensional statistics. There exist many problems, which are by their nature problems of high dimensional statistics.

                    If you have for an example an engineering problem, it can make sense to use an ML approach, to find patterns in the relationship between input conditions and output results. Based on this patterns you have an idea, where you need to focus in the physical theory for understanding and optimizing it.

                    Another example for "generative AI" i have seen is creating models of hearts. So by feeding it the MRI scans of hundreds of real hearts, millions of models for probable heart shapes can be created and the interaction with medical equipment can be studied on them. This isn't a "desperate" approach. It is a smart approach.

                    tabular@lemmy.worldT B 2 Replies Last reply
                    17
                    • moe90@feddit.nlM [email protected]
                      This post did not contain any content.
                      T This user is from outside of this forum
                      T This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote last edited by
                      #39

                      Mozilla does it again, adding useless crap.

                      xiwi@lemmy.dbzer0.comX 1 Reply Last reply
                      35
                      • exu@feditown.comE [email protected]

                        I like the tab groups. I use them often at work to group an issue with related tabs and my attempts at solving it. Also makes it easier to pause work on one problem and work on something else because I have the tabs grouper and know exactly where to go back.

                        woelkchen@lemmy.worldW This user is from outside of this forum
                        woelkchen@lemmy.worldW This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote last edited by
                        #40

                        I like the tab groups.

                        And nobody should stop you installing an extension that provides tab groups. I agree with the other commentator that some features can be left to extensions and don't need to be part of the core web browser, though.

                        F 1 Reply Last reply
                        13
                        • K [email protected]
                          browser.ml.chat.enabled   false
                          
                          woelkchen@lemmy.worldW This user is from outside of this forum
                          woelkchen@lemmy.worldW This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote last edited by
                          #41

                          You only disable the chat. Overall setting seems to be browser.ml.enable.

                          K B 2 Replies Last reply
                          50
                          • S [email protected]

                            I agree with you on almost everything.

                            It’s like the opposite of classic ML, relatively tiny special purpose models trained for something critical, out of desperation, because it just can’t be done well conventionally.

                            Here i disagree. ML is using high dimensional statistics. There exist many problems, which are by their nature problems of high dimensional statistics.

                            If you have for an example an engineering problem, it can make sense to use an ML approach, to find patterns in the relationship between input conditions and output results. Based on this patterns you have an idea, where you need to focus in the physical theory for understanding and optimizing it.

                            Another example for "generative AI" i have seen is creating models of hearts. So by feeding it the MRI scans of hundreds of real hearts, millions of models for probable heart shapes can be created and the interaction with medical equipment can be studied on them. This isn't a "desperate" approach. It is a smart approach.

                            tabular@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                            tabular@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                            [email protected]
                            wrote last edited by
                            #42

                            Based on this patterns you have an idea, where you need to focus in the physical theory for understanding and optimizing it.

                            How do you tell what the patterns are, or how to interpret them?

                            S 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • tabular@lemmy.worldT [email protected]

                              Based on this patterns you have an idea, where you need to focus in the physical theory for understanding and optimizing it.

                              How do you tell what the patterns are, or how to interpret them?

                              S This user is from outside of this forum
                              S This user is from outside of this forum
                              [email protected]
                              wrote last edited by [email protected]
                              #43

                              The recognition of the pattern is done by the machine learning. That is the core concept of machine learning.

                              For the interpretation you need to use your domain knowledge. Machine learning together with knowledge in the domain analyzed can be a very powerful combination.

                              Another example in research i have heard about recently, is detection of brain tumors before they occur. MRIs are analyzed of people who later developed brain tumors to see if patterns can be detected in the people who developed the tumors that are absent in the people who didn't develop tumors. This knowledge of a correlation between certain patterns and later tumor development could help specialists to further their understanding of how tumors develop as they can analyze these specific patterns.

                              What we see with ChatGPT and other LLMs is kind of doing the opposite by detaching the algorithm from any specific knowledge. Subsequently the algorithm can make predictions on anything and they are worth nothing.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              5
                              • A [email protected]

                                even without AI, to me tab groups are already feature creep bloat in browsers. do people really put that much effort into organizing tabs?

                                tabular@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tabular@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                                [email protected]
                                wrote last edited by
                                #44

                                I started using tab groups when they released vertical tabs.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • N [email protected]

                                  use ironfox for android, it's the continuation of Mull

                                  tabular@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  tabular@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  [email protected]
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #45

                                  Mull has stopped develop? 🥺

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • A [email protected]

                                    even without AI, to me tab groups are already feature creep bloat in browsers. do people really put that much effort into organizing tabs?

                                    recursiveparadox@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
                                    recursiveparadox@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
                                    [email protected]
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #46

                                    For work at any given point I have 17-20 tabs open. It's totally useful for me to sort them into tabs to cut out the "noise" when I'm doing research.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    1
                                    • moe90@feddit.nlM [email protected]
                                      This post did not contain any content.
                                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                                      [email protected]
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #47

                                      I just use Librewolf so its removed by default.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      5
                                      • obviouslynotbanana@piefed.worldO [email protected]

                                        I love that people get upset that their CPU is using its resources when they're using it.

                                        P This user is from outside of this forum
                                        P This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #48

                                        Reminds me of how some people get upset when their OS uses up all their RAM, no matter how much they have. It's like they want their PC to be sluggish and unresponsive. Unused RAM is wasted RAM.

                                        B dreaming_novaling@lemmy.zipD 2 Replies Last reply
                                        16
                                        • A [email protected]

                                          Even if they wanted to bank on the adblocker thing I imagine they can't because they have to stay in Google's good graces. Like 90% of their revenue was google money, and has been for years now.

                                          At this point I'd honestly even pay for a privacy focused mozilla browser that is clean of all this crap, just to keep them afloat, but fat chance of that happening.

                                          P This user is from outside of this forum
                                          P This user is from outside of this forum
                                          [email protected]
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #49

                                          At this point I'd honestly even pay for a privacy focused mozilla browser that is clean of all this crap, just to keep them afloat, but fat chance of that happening.

                                          As much as I'd love for something like that I don't think it's even remotely possible. I don't think enough people are willing enough to pay for a browser that respects them, heck the amount of people who remain on Chrome shows that people aren't even willing to take a small step to stop using a browser that's actively working against their interests. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

                                          T 1 Reply Last reply
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