EU OS: A Fedora-based distro 'for the public sector'
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I'm sure Fedora is full of binary blobs and not-so-free software
fedora is staunchly opposed to non-free software in their default distro … that spat a few weeks ago with OBS was related to that AFAIK
unsure about like signed blobs for “security” services but i imagine they’d be very limited, and optional
rather than sticking a white label on Fedora and call it something else
but for what benefit? no matter what’s trying to be achieved, starting with a very full-featured, robust OS that’s widely used is going to serve you very well… not just technically (less work for the same outcome), but for human reasons
there are loads of guides out there for how to fix fedora issues, few for guix… loads of RPMs that are compatible with fedora, and i can only imagine fewer packages for guix
and then if you’re talking about server OSes - and actually workstations too - managing them with tools like ansible etc… fedora is going to have off the shelf solutions
just Fedora with different theme
well, the actual software and configuration i’d argue aren’t the important part - owning the infrastructure is the important part… package mirrors, distribution methods (eg a website), being able to veto or replace certain packages, and the branding (or regulation) that draws people to it… being able to roll out a security patch to every installation without a 3rd party okaying it, for example
The spat with the OBS devs was due to a fedora package maintainer refusing to package OBS with an older library for their own Fedora Flatpak repo, despite the newer library causing severe breakage with OBS (which is why the OBS devs held it back in the flathub release).
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Having seen SuSE destroy collaborators like OL, CNC and probably Turbo, I'm okay never even working with them as a customer. I intend to avoid them until death.
SuSE destroy collaborators like OL, CNC and probably Turbo
I'm very new with this and have no idea what OL, CNC and Turbo is. Could you please elaborate?
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It's only a proof of concept at the moment and I don't know if it will see mass adoption but it's a step in the right direction to ending reliance on US-based Big Tech.
"Made with
️ in Brussels by Robert Riemann"
Clicked his URL…
"physicist and computer scientist…passionate about open source and free software, cryptography…"
Whew, almost read crypto"currency"…
"…and peer-to-peer technology such as BitTorrent or Blockchain/Bitcoin.
Goddammit.--
︎ arscyni.cc: modernity ∝ nature. -
But Fedora is based on an IBM product... so that's a swing and a miss. SuSE would be a better direction, IMO
Only after IBM purchased Redhat recently
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Point? I was replying about Mint and Ubuntu - what has Fedora got to do with them?
How about systemd ? Aren't all distros kinda fucked?
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I would like the EU to make an official universal Linux distro, intended for the ordinary person to use on their PC. Bonus points if they can collaborate with Steam to make it compatible with gaming stuff. The big reason I stuck to Windows 11 is for the sake of games, but if compatibility and ease of use to customize was improved, I would be happy to switch away.
The big thing that the EU can bring to the project is contributing lots of money for making Linux suitable as a daily driver, along with mandating its usage on government machines.
If the sanctions we are talking about actually took place, Steam in EU would be fucked. Better bet in GOG. Also, Bazzite is easier to setup and use than Windows. I made the switch a year ago, I still don't know crap about Linux. Just try it.
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Well, all the distros being discussed are open source - it's kind of a requirement when making a linux distro because the licences require it and you wouldn't be able to make it closed source. (Unless there's a huge shift in the law)
And being open source doesn't necessarily prevent it falling under sanctions legislation. I have seen a linux distro being legally required to "take reasonable steps" to geo-block Russian access to its repos, and I've personally read disclaimers when installing linux that "This software is not allowed to be used in Russia". (That distro is 'owned' by an organisation that was controlled by a single person, so it's probably not comparable to Debian)
We're all technical people so we can all probably think of half a dozen ways around that, but it was still ordered by the US Government (even before the current government)And you may be right in that it would be excempt. Debian isn't owned by anyone, but its trademark is(Software in the Public Interest), and it feels possible that those who help distribute foss (by mirroring repos for example) may be restricted if they fall under US jurisdiction. I don't know for certain - and unless someone here is a qualified lawyer specialising in software licences as well as how software rooted in the US relates to sanctions - we're all probably guessing.
Three months ago any of this would have felt ridiculous - who would want to stop free software? But now? In this era of the ridiculous? I certainly feel unsure about predicting anything.
I still don't see how the US can stop anyone from forking Debian etc.
Worst case scenario I can see is "The US implements martial law, no more trade what so ever allowed with anyone outside of the US and they put up a fire-wall to block all internet"
In that scenario we literally just pull Debian from the European mirrors, fork it and create NewDebian.
Problem solved.
Currently we heavily rely on Microsoft, Apple etc.
If the US does the same thing, we're fucked because we can't just fork MS or Apple software. -
I would like the EU to make an official universal Linux distro, intended for the ordinary person to use on their PC. Bonus points if they can collaborate with Steam to make it compatible with gaming stuff. The big reason I stuck to Windows 11 is for the sake of games, but if compatibility and ease of use to customize was improved, I would be happy to switch away.
The big thing that the EU can bring to the project is contributing lots of money for making Linux suitable as a daily driver, along with mandating its usage on government machines.
It used to be true that Windows is better for gaming. That's no longer the case.
Since steam deck runs on Linux, they made a compatibility layer allowing you to play windows games on Linux.
I switched to Linux a few months ago and have been able to play all my games just fine.
(also dual boot is an option)
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I still don't see how the US can stop anyone from forking Debian etc.
Worst case scenario I can see is "The US implements martial law, no more trade what so ever allowed with anyone outside of the US and they put up a fire-wall to block all internet"
In that scenario we literally just pull Debian from the European mirrors, fork it and create NewDebian.
Problem solved.
Currently we heavily rely on Microsoft, Apple etc.
If the US does the same thing, we're fucked because we can't just fork MS or Apple software.We're an ingenious and motivated bunch (See all the Redhat attempts to stop clones, and lots of other examples), so yes, I think we'd absolutely work around the problem if it was to happen.
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How about systemd ? Aren't all distros kinda fucked?
Fair point about systemd, or any of the other core components - I don't know.
But I don't think we'd be fucked - we're ingenious and motivated and have a proven record of adapting and innovating to solve problems that stop us playing with our toys.
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If the sanctions we are talking about actually took place, Steam in EU would be fucked. Better bet in GOG. Also, Bazzite is easier to setup and use than Windows. I made the switch a year ago, I still don't know crap about Linux. Just try it.
I already tried it about a month and a half ago. Linux is really user-unfriendly if you got games that aren't Steam exclusive or like modding. I got lots of older games or ones meant for a Japanese locale system, and I had issues with installing DLC via Heroic Games Launcher / Lutris / or just getting Mini Galaxy to work properly.
In any case, I want Steam to work with the EU on a EU Linux, since they got lots of money, data, and influence to help develop the distro. Plus, Gabe doesn't want his platform locked onto Windows, so you got a personal motivation for Steam to seriously cooperate with the EU. The EU can put lighter sanctions on Steam if people buy games while using EU Linux. This would help drive adoption and normalize Linux usage among normal people after a decade or so.
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Probably since it's the main redhat upstream and they want the advantage of already widespread usage.
Although at that point why not OpenSUSE for the same reason you mentioned.
Security is a big focus for gov usage, why not base off of Debian?
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Only after IBM purchased Redhat recently
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Security is a big focus for gov usage, why not base off of Debian?
Rolling release/bleeding edge means security updates roll out fast.
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From the subheading on the ReadMe.
Community-led Proof-of-Concept for a free Operating System for the EU public sector
So it's made by the EU in the sense that the maintainers are likely citizens of the EU, I guess.
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If it was a community addition why would it matter? And why would they remove the codecs.
You don't have to be a corporation to be held liable for legal issues with hosting codecs. Just need to be big enough for lawyers to see you as an attractive target and in a country where codec patent issues apply. There's a very good reason why the servers for deb-multimedia.org (Debian's multimedia repo), rpmfusion.org (Fedora's multimedia repo), videolan.org (VLC's site), and others are all hosted in France and do not offer US-based mirrors. France is a safe haven for foss media codecs because its law does not consider software patentable, unlike the US and even most other EU nations.
Fedora's main repos are hosted in the US. Even if they weren't, the ability for any normal user around the world to host and use mirrors is a very important part of an open community-friendly distro, and the existence of patented codecs in that repo would open any mirrors up to liability. Debian has the same exact issue, and both distros settled on the same solution: point users to a separate repo that is hosted in France which contains extra packages for patent-encumbered codecs.
France is a safe haven for foss media codecs because its law does not consider software patentable
TIL there is a country that sees reason about software patents
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Generally true when we're talking about capitalism.
That's not necessarily true for FOSS projects, however, since money making isn't necessarily their goal. Linus Torvalds doesn't force you to watch an ad or sell off contributors' data to get the privilege of using the Linux kernel, for example. Bazzite doesn't sell IP addresses of people who download their distro to data aggregators.
However, you should do your homework and check who is in charge of projects like these and note what changes they're bringing.
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It's only a proof of concept at the moment and I don't know if it will see mass adoption but it's a step in the right direction to ending reliance on US-based Big Tech.
Fedora is too much into RedHat, and that's an American company, it depends on it. You'll have to go at least Arch, or Debian (which are more community-driven), or Ubuntu or Mint (that are European). But I wouldn't use anything Redhat-produced for an EU OS.
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"Made with
️ in Brussels by Robert Riemann"
Clicked his URL…
"physicist and computer scientist…passionate about open source and free software, cryptography…"
Whew, almost read crypto"currency"…
"…and peer-to-peer technology such as BitTorrent or Blockchain/Bitcoin.
Goddammit.--
︎ arscyni.cc: modernity ∝ nature. -
I already tried it about a month and a half ago. Linux is really user-unfriendly if you got games that aren't Steam exclusive or like modding. I got lots of older games or ones meant for a Japanese locale system, and I had issues with installing DLC via Heroic Games Launcher / Lutris / or just getting Mini Galaxy to work properly.
In any case, I want Steam to work with the EU on a EU Linux, since they got lots of money, data, and influence to help develop the distro. Plus, Gabe doesn't want his platform locked onto Windows, so you got a personal motivation for Steam to seriously cooperate with the EU. The EU can put lighter sanctions on Steam if people buy games while using EU Linux. This would help drive adoption and normalize Linux usage among normal people after a decade or so.
Yeah, I agree... modding, trainers and games outside Steam aren't easy enough yet. On Windows I didn't use to mod games (except for Minecraft which is easy on Linux), so that didn't hurt. What I did lose was WeMod.
