Fan of Flatpaks ...or Not?
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I used them for some things, but other things still don't work quite right. Take Steam for example. I do love flatpaks for testing out apps, things with really finicky dependencies, or pinning a specific version of a software that I want to continue to work in the future. However, for most things, Arch + AUR just covers all my needs without any hiccups.
To me flatpaks are sort of like NixOS. All the benefits they provide aren't something I need on a daily basis. Rolling back works just fine 99% of the time with
downgrade. I already have system backups. Despite what some articles might insist, things don't just break all the time. I'm not running untrusted software.Basically no solution is perfect, but they don't need to be. If the benefits I gain can be recreated through other methods without the tradeoffs they introduce, then I will go with that. Of course, that isn't to say they don't have their place, but sometimes I feel like some people think that "being designed from the ground up" to handle certain use cases is always better than whatever "cobbled together" thing we currently have and that isn't always the case. I'm specifically quoting those two phrases because these are the exact phrases you will hear projects using to justify their existence. In fact, I would go so far as to say that some people have outright confused modularity for "cobbled together".
One last example I want to make is that I make use of projects like the fish shell and helix editor. In these cases, I find the features they introduce to be worth the tradeoffs and work better because of being designed "from the ground up" to do what they do. However, I don't make use of immutable systems, containers such as docker, or say filesystems such as btrfs. The features they provide are not useful enough to me compared to the problems they introduce.
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On the other hand each flatpak uses >1Gb of disk where deb packages rarely require more than 100Mb
That's certainly a concern for some, but I'm using like 30 GB for all the things I've installed, which is a lot (12 (flatpak-system), 76 (flatpak-user)) but that's on a 2 TB drive, which amounts to like 1½% of the total available space. I don't think that's a bad trade.
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Having nails driven into my testicles is better than snap. It's not a high bar.
Haven't had much opportunity to use snap, what's the problem with them?
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They always seem to have some critical limitation. Handbrake is too slow via flatpak to work. Flatpak Zoom had no camera access. Flatpak-only Zen browser can't use passkeys. Zen browser asks to be my default browser every time I open it, even though it is and I always say yes; is this a flatpak limitation? I don't know, and I'd prefer not to have to figure it out just for some theoretical benefits and more overhead.
Flatpak Zoom had no camera access.
I used Flatpak Zoom for all my job interviews recently. Camera and mic worked flawlessly.
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Flatpak Zoom had no camera access.
I used Flatpak Zoom for all my job interviews recently. Camera and mic worked flawlessly.
Well that's frustrating. I may need to check that again.
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Just a conversation opener, relax. Only one here shaking a fist in the air is you.
You don't have to use a meme insulting some side to just start a conversation.
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Haven't had much opportunity to use snap, what's the problem with them?
Mostly start up time for me. It just takes the programs longer to launch.
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Former OS security here (I worked at an OS vendor who sold an OS or two and my job involved keeping it secure).
Fuck no.
Sorry if that makes you downvote, but it doesn't make them safer.
Would you mind elaborating?
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On the other hand each flatpak uses >1Gb of disk where deb packages rarely require more than 100Mb
Plus I found on my install flatpak wasn't cleaning up the flatpaks autoinstalled for older versions of nvidia drivers, they were all still listed as dependencies. Not sure who's to blame but that was taking up a few much needed GBs.
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i had a hard time getting used to them but now i love them in mint i can switch between the package version and flatpak version and usually the fp one is more updated
Mint took a while to handle flatpak decently in the update manager, and now it's a nice experience.
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I love installing things from the CLI and prefer to only do it that way but Linux needs a single click install method for applications if it’s ever going to become a mainstream OS. The average person just wants to Google a program, hit download and install. If not that then they want to use a mobile-like App Store.
Flatpak is kind of perfect at achieving both those things
I mean, just make a tiny GUI wrapper for apt. I believe that is already generally what is done.
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You don't have to use a meme insulting some side to just start a conversation.
Well, I heard that people who use flatpacks are libs. True?
Sorry, I just think it's funny that Linux users get so defensive about this stuff. You really felt insulted by this?
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Haven't had much opportunity to use snap, what's the problem with them?
Haven't had much opportunity to have nails driven into my testicles.
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Haven't had much opportunity to use snap, what's the problem with them?
For me, it's the unrenameable, unmoveable, non-hidden snap directory in my home directory's root that doesn't even follow the naming convention of the other directories in there.
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there's a gui for flatpaks?
KDE Discover and GNOME Software can install from FlatHub (or other Flatpak repos, if you add those).
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Flatpak have their own set of issues. One thing is, that Flatpak applications do not integrate that easily and perfect like a native package. Either rights are to given, you need to know what rights are needed and how to set it up. Theming can be an issue, because it uses its own libraries in the Flatpak eco system instead your current distributions theme and desktop environment.
But on the other hand, they have actually a permission system and are a little bit sandbox compared to normal applications. Packages often are distributed quickly and are up to date directly from the developers, and usually are not installed with root rights.
I'm pretty much a CLI guy as well and prefer native packages (Arch based, plus the AUR). But I also use Flatpaks for various reasons, alongside with AppImages.
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There have been GUI package managers for decades.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Oh 100% but have you tried to explain how to use one to a computer novice? Like yes, the answer is usually “they should just…” but novice users will never. With flatpak, they get an experience similar to how MacOS works and a bit like how .exes work and it Just Works
️Edit: like I’ve had trouble showing people how to use the GNOME App Store which could not be any more simple. Anyone who has been convinced to install Linux already feels way out of their element so making everything feel as natural as possible is essential (and I mean, flatpaks are awesome anyway)
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Atomic distros are cool, and I'm sure they will only get more popular, but I don't buy the idea that they're "The" future. They have their place, but they can't really completely replace traditional distros. Not every new thing needs to kill everything that came before it.
They have their place, but they can’t really completely replace traditional distros.
As it stands, I kinda agree. But I truly wonder to what extent we might be able to close the current gap.
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I love installing things from the CLI and prefer to only do it that way but Linux needs a single click install method for applications if it’s ever going to become a mainstream OS. The average person just wants to Google a program, hit download and install. If not that then they want to use a mobile-like App Store.
Flatpak is kind of perfect at achieving both those things
wrote on last edited by [email protected]OpenSUSE has OneClick install for RPMs. https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:One_Click_Install
Edit: and if you happen to download an rpm, you just double click it in the filemanager (or single click if that is your setting) and it launces the install GUI.
Its similar to how MSI file install looks...just next next finish kind of thing
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OpenSUSE has OneClick install for RPMs. https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:One_Click_Install
Edit: and if you happen to download an rpm, you just double click it in the filemanager (or single click if that is your setting) and it launces the install GUI.
Its similar to how MSI file install looks...just next next finish kind of thing
wrote on last edited by [email protected]For sure and I agree that should be enough but the average person is not good with computers and they don’t want to learn. They won’t understand the nuances of different distributions of Linux. Like try explaining the difference between a .deb, a .tar.gz, and a .rpm to a person who’s already hésitent about using Linux. Flatpak solves that by just having one download that any Linux install can use
