Musk says he hopes for 'zero tariffs' between US and Europe
-
This post did not contain any content.
-
System shared this topic on
-
This post did not contain any content.
I personally would place a lower probability on a zero-tariff arrangement between the two under Trump than during any other time, but...¯\(ツ)/¯
-
This post did not contain any content.
what a stupid git.
-
This post did not contain any content.
Are they pulling some good cop bad cop play? Musk saying he wants free trade like it used to be, Trump willing to do that if we accept his super attractive deal?
-
Are they pulling some good cop bad cop play? Musk saying he wants free trade like it used to be, Trump willing to do that if we accept his super attractive deal?
So, one thing I've seen proposed is basically that Trump's goal is to use the tariff increases as a negotiating ploy.
This is not, I suppose, completely unthinkable, from a purely-economic standpoint. That is, hypothetically one could say that a zero tariff trade agreement is preferable for the EU to a whatever-Trump-is-currently-imposing scenario, but that remaining barriers to trade are the politically-sensitive ones that are unlikely to be removed, so getting to a zero tariff agreement from the status quo is difficult. If that's true, then the right move from a US administration that does want a zero-tariff agreement is to make the choice one between high tariffs and no tariffs.
I'm sure that there are more-informed-on-specifics takes that will show up if that's the direction that the administration goes.
What I have a very hard time seeing how this would work on the political side. Like, Trump has whipped up protectionist sentiment in the US, and done a lot to antagonize trade partners. If you create a trade agreement, you're going to have to have to go tell existing businesses that they are going to go under, as the economic environment changes. That's politically hard to do. In such a scenario --- assuming that non-tariff barriers to trade also go away, which is something that it looked like Trump was trying to stuff into his tariffs --- Trump would have to go back to people like uncompetitive US manufacturers and tell them that they'd have to go under for the good of the US economy. Those also tend to be in swing states that he relied upon. Officials in the EU would have to go to, say, uncompetitive EU farmers and tell them the same, and the existence of the CAP, I think, demonstrates that that's quite politically-sensitive.
If that's what the administration is actually aiming for, though, I suppose that it'll become visible pretty soon, since it'll start trying to negotiate trade agreements.
-
This post did not contain any content.
Stack hope in one hand an shit in the other and see which piles up first. Hoping is reserved for people who didn't actively contribute to the current situation.
-
So, one thing I've seen proposed is basically that Trump's goal is to use the tariff increases as a negotiating ploy.
This is not, I suppose, completely unthinkable, from a purely-economic standpoint. That is, hypothetically one could say that a zero tariff trade agreement is preferable for the EU to a whatever-Trump-is-currently-imposing scenario, but that remaining barriers to trade are the politically-sensitive ones that are unlikely to be removed, so getting to a zero tariff agreement from the status quo is difficult. If that's true, then the right move from a US administration that does want a zero-tariff agreement is to make the choice one between high tariffs and no tariffs.
I'm sure that there are more-informed-on-specifics takes that will show up if that's the direction that the administration goes.
What I have a very hard time seeing how this would work on the political side. Like, Trump has whipped up protectionist sentiment in the US, and done a lot to antagonize trade partners. If you create a trade agreement, you're going to have to have to go tell existing businesses that they are going to go under, as the economic environment changes. That's politically hard to do. In such a scenario --- assuming that non-tariff barriers to trade also go away, which is something that it looked like Trump was trying to stuff into his tariffs --- Trump would have to go back to people like uncompetitive US manufacturers and tell them that they'd have to go under for the good of the US economy. Those also tend to be in swing states that he relied upon. Officials in the EU would have to go to, say, uncompetitive EU farmers and tell them the same, and the existence of the CAP, I think, demonstrates that that's quite politically-sensitive.
If that's what the administration is actually aiming for, though, I suppose that it'll become visible pretty soon, since it'll start trying to negotiate trade agreements.
Don't try and rationalize what Trump's plan is. Whatever you think he's doing, it's not that. Your brain and his operate in fundamentally different ways. Logic can't help you understand the intrinsically illogical.
-
This post did not contain any content.
That's cool and all, it won't help with the global view that America is erratic and not to be trusted now since their economy can flip on a dime
BRICS goes brrrrr
-
Don't try and rationalize what Trump's plan is. Whatever you think he's doing, it's not that. Your brain and his operate in fundamentally different ways. Logic can't help you understand the intrinsically illogical.
This is a false view of humans behavior. All human behavior is logically sound, if you can't figure out the logic in it, that's on you, not on them "being illogical".
Trump certainly has motivations and subconscious thought processes that can be reasoned about. They might not be based on true views about reality, which makes them "sound illogical", but once you change your logical reasoning to not be based on an accurate depiction of reality, but based on the delusional version of reality inside Trump's brain, then his actions do start to make logical sense within that framework.
The problem is accurately figuring out his views on reality and actually putting yourself in his delusional shoes. This is incredibly hard, I certainly can't (and don't want) to do it, I just don't have the necessary information and way of obtaining it.
-
This post did not contain any content.
Musk should be sued to oblivion, have arrest warrants issued in every country and be shunned for the rest of his life
-
This is a false view of humans behavior. All human behavior is logically sound, if you can't figure out the logic in it, that's on you, not on them "being illogical".
Trump certainly has motivations and subconscious thought processes that can be reasoned about. They might not be based on true views about reality, which makes them "sound illogical", but once you change your logical reasoning to not be based on an accurate depiction of reality, but based on the delusional version of reality inside Trump's brain, then his actions do start to make logical sense within that framework.
The problem is accurately figuring out his views on reality and actually putting yourself in his delusional shoes. This is incredibly hard, I certainly can't (and don't want) to do it, I just don't have the necessary information and way of obtaining it.
His goals and ideals have been made perfectly clear since the candidacy and even before that. He wants the US to be self suficiente in terms of industry which at this point in time is an isolationist measure.
He has been saying it since the 90s, there’s an Oprah interview where he said that the world is robbing America blind.
He has been perfectly clear about that, the problem is that adversaries and supporters alike want to justify this small mindedness with a bigger master plan. It’s the negotiation tactic approach, or the debt refinance approach, or the crashing the economy to buy exciting for cheap before making it soar again approach…The annex Canada and Greenland talks are just another side of making the US self sufficient, just not trying to negotiate, in his mind he IS making the US great again.
It really feels frustrating that most people don’t understand that he really believes what he is saying… -
This post did not contain any content.
They can keep their shitty American products. I hate seeing Teslas everyday. Let's get independent from them as fast as possible!
-
This post did not contain any content.
Go fuck yourself elmo
-
This post did not contain any content.
Canada yes, USA hell no.
-
This post did not contain any content.
Loser can hope ... No way.
-
So, one thing I've seen proposed is basically that Trump's goal is to use the tariff increases as a negotiating ploy.
This is not, I suppose, completely unthinkable, from a purely-economic standpoint. That is, hypothetically one could say that a zero tariff trade agreement is preferable for the EU to a whatever-Trump-is-currently-imposing scenario, but that remaining barriers to trade are the politically-sensitive ones that are unlikely to be removed, so getting to a zero tariff agreement from the status quo is difficult. If that's true, then the right move from a US administration that does want a zero-tariff agreement is to make the choice one between high tariffs and no tariffs.
I'm sure that there are more-informed-on-specifics takes that will show up if that's the direction that the administration goes.
What I have a very hard time seeing how this would work on the political side. Like, Trump has whipped up protectionist sentiment in the US, and done a lot to antagonize trade partners. If you create a trade agreement, you're going to have to have to go tell existing businesses that they are going to go under, as the economic environment changes. That's politically hard to do. In such a scenario --- assuming that non-tariff barriers to trade also go away, which is something that it looked like Trump was trying to stuff into his tariffs --- Trump would have to go back to people like uncompetitive US manufacturers and tell them that they'd have to go under for the good of the US economy. Those also tend to be in swing states that he relied upon. Officials in the EU would have to go to, say, uncompetitive EU farmers and tell them the same, and the existence of the CAP, I think, demonstrates that that's quite politically-sensitive.
If that's what the administration is actually aiming for, though, I suppose that it'll become visible pretty soon, since it'll start trying to negotiate trade agreements.
What I do not get is how they thought reaction would be? "all other countries" just bending over?????? especially after annextion threats????
-
This is a false view of humans behavior. All human behavior is logically sound, if you can't figure out the logic in it, that's on you, not on them "being illogical".
Trump certainly has motivations and subconscious thought processes that can be reasoned about. They might not be based on true views about reality, which makes them "sound illogical", but once you change your logical reasoning to not be based on an accurate depiction of reality, but based on the delusional version of reality inside Trump's brain, then his actions do start to make logical sense within that framework.
The problem is accurately figuring out his views on reality and actually putting yourself in his delusional shoes. This is incredibly hard, I certainly can't (and don't want) to do it, I just don't have the necessary information and way of obtaining it.
You said what I said using more words. Call it different if you must be contrarian but the conclusion is the same so why bother.
-
System shared this topic on
