Bad UX is keeping the majority of people away from Lemmy
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This is why email never caught on. Who wants to choose between Gmail, Yahoo, MSN, Proton, and Comcast? A successful email service would be one where you can only communicate with users of the same email service. /s
At no point has Gmail ever said "we're no longer allowing you to send/receive emails to/from Hotmail" or has Yahoo said "we're maintained by a single volunteer who because of real life stuff can no longer continue so we're discontinuing our email service."
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I tried to join Lemmy during the API debacle, but then it asked me to choose a server. It didn't explain what that meant or how it would affect me. I could read a long, confusing explanation of it elsewhere, but that illuminated nothing. So I gave up.
Eventually I tried again and just chose lemmy.world, since it was the largest. After that it was smooth sailing, and I like Lemmy a lot more than reddit. It turns out it didn't even really matter which server I chose. (Although now I see some comments from people saying there's something wrong with lemmy.world.)
You just need to hold the new user's hand a little. Anyone who has ever designed a UI for an office environment would know immediately that the server question is going to be an impenetrable wall for many users.
Although now I see some comments from people saying there’s something wrong with lemmy.world.)
- No VPN
- older version of Lemmy (doesn't allow to remove uploads https://tech.michaelaltfield.net/2024/03/04/lemmy-fediverse-gdpr/)
- debatable policies (see the last one about "allow flat earthers" [email protected] )
- federated with Threads
- some power tripping [email protected]
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we can redesign the on onboarding process.
stop explaining new terms
fuck infinite list of random names with anime girls (what do you want me to do,read!?)Make it like a map and turn instances into buildings (or gardens/circle/doesnt matter). Show some stats like how big, who i can talk to, topic. Gamify the experience so the fatigue turns into curiousity.
That's a cool idea
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The fediverse being "endless wars about who is federated" is not really true, is it?
Sure not everyone is federated with everyone else, but legacy social media is federated with nobody at all. Federation is the entire point of the Fediverse, you connect with people you want to connect with and you don't connect with people you don't. It's as simple as that.
Plus, do people really want to be on a single platform with everyone else in the world?
Because that's a big part of what broke the internet in the first place...99% of users are going to check out when you ask them what server to join.
I'm so sick of this dumb ass argument...
People who complain about "servers" need to tell me what they think "the internet" is. The existence of servers didn't stop online video games, email or discord/slack from catching on with hundreds of millions of people, so why is it suddenly a problem when it comes to the Fediverse?
Onboarding obviously needs to be better, but I'm going to be totally honest honest here: I don't think these are legitimate, actionable or useful critiques.
These are merely excuses from people who are addicted to legacy social media and who don't give a shit that the internet is owned and controlled by a few rich corporations.
I’m so sick of this dumb ass argument…
The server question was 100% the reason I didn't join Lemmy right away. It's not that I didn't understand what a server is. It's that the signup form was asking me to make a decision I didn't know the answer to, so I gave up.
With a little more hand holding, I'd have joined months before I actually did.
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Yeah and I completely agree with you, but look at the comments in this thread. So many people are coming off as elitists "why should we make things easier for stupid idiots we hate?".
Seems that many users here don't actually want anyone else joining unless they meet their arbitrary standards for intelligence or whatever.
Its an illusion of control and if lemmy grows their elitest sentiment will fade. They can go make a fringe instance with all the arbitrary knowledge requirements they want but the most populated instances on lemmy should be there for the layman users that want to do better than reddit.
Why, with an established federated platform, would we not want to be the replacement for corporate social media? If they are so proud of registering on lemmy then idk if they are all that smart.
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Is that a consistent experience across lemmy though? I looked at some of those downvote-disabled instances, and then looked at posts in those instances from within an instance that still had downvotes enabled - and it appeared that people were still downvoting those posts just fine.
If it is possible to simply disable votes all together - including comment votes - I might try spending some time learning how to get that all setup and running and see how the experience is. But I would likely defederate from all vote-instances (or I don't know if there's a way to make the federation opt-in), so that community could be entirely free from voting effects.
I'm not entirely sure if this is how it works, but I believe the instance that disables down votes does not federate downvotes from other instances. So if a downvote enabled instance downvotes a post from the non downvoting instance, other users on the same instance as the downvoter will see downvotes, but other instances will not see them.
Could be totally wrong about that though!
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This reddit post likely has tens if not hundreds of thousands of views, look at the top comment.
Lemmy is losing so many potential new users because the UX sucks for the vast majority of people.
What can we do?
I've gone on this diatribe about PIxelfed's onboarding process, where they have a website that says "This page will help find the perfect server for you" and then is designed to present as little meaningful information about each server as possible. Looking at join-lemmy.org, it's marginally better. "You can access all content from the Lemmyverse from any server, so it doesn't matter which you choose" 1. not strictly true and 2. if it doesn't matter why make the choice?
Here's a question I have, because I'm honestly not sure: Let's say most of the communities I'm personally interested in are on example.lol. But my account is on sh.itjust.works. How much am I burdening sh.itjust.works by mostly reading and posting to example.lol? Would I be decreasing people's operating costs if I just opened an account on example.lol so most of my interaction was on my home instance?
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Although now I see some comments from people saying there’s something wrong with lemmy.world.)
- No VPN
- older version of Lemmy (doesn't allow to remove uploads https://tech.michaelaltfield.net/2024/03/04/lemmy-fediverse-gdpr/)
- debatable policies (see the last one about "allow flat earthers" [email protected] )
- federated with Threads
- some power tripping [email protected]
None of that affects me, but if I switch, which one should I switch to?
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Joining is a bad experience. "Please commit now to a server on this service you know nothing about... Then you can try it out!" I understand the concept of decentralization, but it's ass-backwards...
I've tried to join lemmy several times since 2021 but I could succeed only a few weeks ago.
I don't get why new accounts need manual approval.
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This reddit post likely has tens if not hundreds of thousands of views, look at the top comment.
Lemmy is losing so many potential new users because the UX sucks for the vast majority of people.
What can we do?
The second this hurdle is crossed we'll need a new Lemmy
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Been using Lemmy for a couple of years, not seen this once.
Also, the ux is pretty much the same as Reddit.
These people are just stakeholders in Reddit. They are afraid of change, or losing any rep they have. They sit on a pile of useless upvotes.
Also, the ux is pretty much the same as Reddit.
The default one is a bit minimal, but we have many Alternative UIs are as modern looking as new Reddit.
They also work much better while being modern looking. There's a reason so many of us came over here when they got rid of third party apps, the new Reddit interface is... bad.
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That's a cool idea
Imagine sending your friend a minigame and you accidentally sign him up for lemmy
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Really early on like right after the API fuckfest, there was a large influx of users who picked servers based on whatever. As a result, servers defederated and there was a lot of drama as a result.
Though that said I haven't heard much about defederating in some time.
It's also less likely to happen now. Back when that happened, users didn't have the ability to block instances and so it was up to the admins to do that for everyone.
It's now possible to block instances at the user level
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Its an illusion of control and if lemmy grows their elitest sentiment will fade. They can go make a fringe instance with all the arbitrary knowledge requirements they want but the most populated instances on lemmy should be there for the layman users that want to do better than reddit.
Why, with an established federated platform, would we not want to be the replacement for corporate social media? If they are so proud of registering on lemmy then idk if they are all that smart.
You make good points. I agree.
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I feel like most the old school redditors have long migrated, I've only ever heard good things about the new UI from relatively new users.
Lemmy is old reddit, if not OG internet ethos.
New Reddit gets a lot of complaints too (loading issues, freezing), but it's aimed at Reddit as a whole since newer users don't know that old Reddit is an option.
At the same time, if I only ever used new Reddit, I would also think that old Reddit looks wrong
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The reddit concept of subreddits also doesn't work well with federation IMO (at least no Lemmy's implementation).
Want to talk about video games? Well, there's no /r/games, instead there are bunch of different /c/games on different servers with varying amounts of activity. You basically gotta make the "pick a server" decision again whenever you post something. If you make the wrong choice, your post might not get seen by anyone, and even if you post to the biggest sub, you'll be missing out on eyeballs from people on other servers who aren't subscribed to that instance for whatever reason.
For example, lemmy.ml/c/linux_gaming and lemmy.world/c/linux_gaming have around the same number of subscribers. Should I post to both? Maybe the same people subscribe to both, so that's pointless? Or maybe I'll miss out on a lot of discussion if I post only to one? There's no way for me to know.
For me, it makes Lemmy less useful than reddit for asking really niche questions and getting useful answers. For posting comments on whatever pops up in my feed though, it works great.
I don't have any good solutions to this, and I'm sure it has been considered already. When I first joined, I remembered seeing people bring this same issue up, but it doesn't seem like it went anywhere? (Or maybe it did?)
This isn't really a federation problem, and more that there isn't a clear "winner" yet.
Even on centralized platforms, you end up with multiple communities for the same topic, until one of them grows enough to beat out the rest. Then eventually a scandal might cause it to fragment again. There are also separate communities that keep going independently because of ideological differences. See the various international news subreddits
The movies communities here were like that, but now there is a pretty clear "main community"
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This reddit post likely has tens if not hundreds of thousands of views, look at the top comment.
Lemmy is losing so many potential new users because the UX sucks for the vast majority of people.
What can we do?
Good keep those numb nuts away. Reddit sucks not only because of Spez and his greedy overlords, many of the users suck as well and I bet there is a big overlap on the Venn diagram between people who suck and people who think lemmy is confusing
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None of that affects me, but if I switch, which one should I switch to?
Really it doesn't matter if it doesn't effect you. I use Jerboa and I'm sure most other apps work the same, you can switch between logins within the app. So if you want to join another instance, say dbzer0, which focuses around Piracy and Anarchy, you create a login from their page then sign in in your app. Switching between accounts is fluid and then if an instance you use does something to piss you off, you can slowly stop using it.
I like to think of it like a playground. We want everything spread out a bit and not all on one instance. So if the owners of that instance start to do things users don't like, you can just replace the softball field,, and keep the slides, swings, soccer fields, walking track etc. Each one of those I would be considering your main subs you are interested in. So if someone ties ads or starts being foul on that softball field, we walk away from the pitch, and onto another softball field and you keep your logins if you weren't based on that softball field. Everything else stays good.
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This reddit post likely has tens if not hundreds of thousands of views, look at the top comment.
Lemmy is losing so many potential new users because the UX sucks for the vast majority of people.
What can we do?
I don't get how people get hung on choosing a server when people have been chosing a starter Pokémon since 1998 without any major issues. And you get just about the "same" amount of practical info.
Really, what tiktok does to a generation...
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Could have auto versus manual server choice. Can always maintain option for granular selection, but "normies" could walk into a quiz when migrating?
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Top three things you used Reddit for? (List of maybe 10+ things, servers can maintain their feature list to empower this)
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Do you like A) talking to everybody about days topics B) talking to a smaller group of like minded people
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Do you like A) a MORE moderated space B) a LESS moderated space, realizing you may see more spam and controversy
And then calculates a server that meets needs, if multiple, then random number generator to assign a server. On user side, all they see is a quiz followed by a typical registration screen. This would help with distribution of users across niche servers, but feel lighter for user. They also would assume a more curated experience, regardless of where they end up. Servers could have to opt in to be fed users from search of they were afraid of impact on cost to maintain server.
The above likely aren't the right questions, but this framework could be effective
The problem with that is there is no centralized website you go to for Lemmy. The closest thing to that would be the various apps you use for Lemmy so my question would be where would you put this quiz? I think when people talk about joining a server being hard it's just hard for people used to a centralized social media to get used to the idea that one social media platform can be made up of a bunch of different websites and it becomes overwhelming to even figure out where to go. They're very used to just going to reddit's website so if they can't just look up Lemmy and click the first link to join it's gonna be too complex.
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