I'm Tired of Pretending Tech is Making the World Better
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My phone struggled to load the site to order a single cold brew, pop-ups to install the custom App kept obscuring the options, and I had to register with my phone number, email address, and first and last name to buy a $5 cup of coffee.
Then walk out. Don't reward the bullshit with your money. The coffee shop ain't gonna give a shit if you keep buying coffee just to go home and complain on your blog.
Or.. ask the staff for a menu, order with them, respectfully let them know how you feel about the qr/app thing (unlikely it was their decision to implement but they can pass on the complaint), and if they're unwilling to take your order (which is hopefully unlikely at this point) feel free to make a little stink (if you feel inclined) and walk out. Still ok to complain on your blog about being spammed with the app but I'd rather try the obvious options first.
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It goes both ways: look at how much Lemmy usage has grown, and Lemmy's existence is due to technology. We can protest with our dollars and time by leaving such products behind. Greed is independent of tech itself.
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I think a clear distinction to make might be:
“Tech” as used in this sense is the industrial complex around mobile and web technologies dominated by a few players who might just be evil.
“Technology” is, of course, everything you mentioned and more. A rock that fits nicely in your hand becomes technology when used to crack a coconut.
It’s a weird linguistic murkiness, isn’t it?
the article is talking about both, or perhaps conflates the two. QR code menus.
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For the past 20 years, tech has promised to make things more efficient while making almost everything more complicated and less meaningful. Innovation, for innovation's sake, has eroded our craftsmanship, relationships, and ability to think critically.
I feel this in my bones.
They're conflating tech with tech bros.
Tech can and does make lots of things that make our lives longer and better. Just not most of the consumer level shit that is constantly peddled by snake oil sellers. That tech is not meant to make your lives easier, it's meant to get more money out of you without giving it up to the little people at service level.
The problem isn't the tech, it's the people who are controlling the tech.
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Scenario1:
"Um, hi. Can I just order here inside? Thanks. I'm really hating the apps now. For sure: one medium cold-brew, please. Yes, thanks, to go. Okay; tap here? Excellent. Oh. Put 'guppy' on the cup. Thanks! [pause] Oh, perfect. Hey, thanks again for letting me skip the app. Those are so frustrating! I'm really starting to avoid any place that uses them, and I'm so grateful I can still come in. Have a great day!"
Scenario2:
"Um, hi. Can I just order here? No? Just the app? That's too bad: I'm really getting frustrated with the app and I'm starting to avoid places that need them. Nope, that's all I needed, sorry. Thanks anyway, and have a great day!"
I like this idea because
- you're affirming the target behaviour
- you're getting a coffee and going
- you're being chipper so they don't feed off your grumpy face
- you're providing feedback without being too much 'that guy', I hope, to the serving staff.
In all things, you don't wanna be That Guy, because you know servers don't need that shit. But, while the odds are slim of feedback getting up the chain of command, you're being clear (and probably more concise) as to how to get more of your business in case the feedback DOES go up.
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I don't agree. Technology in itself is not helpful nor harmful. It's a tool like a hammer or a knife or a pen and a block of paper.
I agree if one says that technology makes it easier to do harm.:) People and their motives and actions are the same as always, since the stone age and ago.
Or like the death ray!
(Futurama reference)
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I like the way you argument but I'm not able to grasp what you try to say entirely. English isn't my native language, this may play into it.
Technology is constrained by the rules of the physical world, but that is an underconstraint.
I. e this sentence.:) Would you rephrase it and give an additional example?
I kind of get the mass transit vs. cars example. Although I think both options have their advantages and disadvantages. It becomes very apparent to me when... Lets say, when you give everyone a car and send them all together into rush hour and transform our cities into something well suited for cars but not so much for people. But that doesn't make the wheel or the engine evil in itself.
Also: The society and and it's values affects technology which in turn affects the environment the society lives in. Yes, I get that when I think i.e. about the industrialisation in the 19th century.
I struggle with the idea that a tool (like a computer) is bad because is too general purpose. Society hence the people and their values define how the tool is used. Would you elaborate on that? I'd like to understand the idea.
No problem!
Technology is constrained by the rules of the physical world, but that is an underconstraint.
Example: Let's say that there's a factory, and the factory has a machine that makes whatever. The machine takes 2 people to operate. The thing needs to get made, so that limits the number of possible designs, but there are still many open questions like, for example, should the workers face each other or face away from each other? The boss might make them face away from each other, that way they don't chat and get distracted. If the workers get to choose, they'd prefer to face each other to make the work more pleasant. In this way, the values of society are embedded in the design of the machine itself.
I struggle with the idea that a tool (like a computer) is bad because is too general purpose. Society hence the people and their values define how the tool is used. Would you elaborate on that? I’d like to understand the idea.
I love computers! It's not that they're bad, but that, because they're so general purpose, more cultural values get embedded. Like in the example above, there are decisions that aren't determined by the goals of what you're trying to accomplish, but because computers are so much more open ended than physical robots, there are more decisions like that, and you have even more leeway in how they're decided.
I agree with you that good/evil is not a productive way to think about it, just like I don't think neutrality is right either. Instead, I think that our technology contains within it a reflection of who got to make those many design decisions, like which direction should the workers sit. These decisions accumulate. I personally think that capitalism sucks, so technology under capitalism, after a few hundred years, also sucks, since that technology contains within it hundreds of years of capitalist decision-making.
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Or.. ask the staff for a menu, order with them, respectfully let them know how you feel about the qr/app thing (unlikely it was their decision to implement but they can pass on the complaint), and if they're unwilling to take your order (which is hopefully unlikely at this point) feel free to make a little stink (if you feel inclined) and walk out. Still ok to complain on your blog about being spammed with the app but I'd rather try the obvious options first.
That's assuming the employees give enough of a shit to pass the feedback on to the owners, and that the owners give enough of a shit to listen.
Yeah, it's better if you make it known why you're not giving them your business, but if it doesn't appreciably impact their revenue then most owners won't care either way.
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For many things I completely agree.
That said, we just had our second kid, and neither set of grandparents live locally. That we can video chat with our family --- for free, essentially! --- is astonishing. And it's not a big deal, not something we plan, just, "hey let's say hi to Gramma and Gramps!"
When I was a kid videoconferencing was exclusive to seriously high end offices. And when we wanted to make a long distance call, we'd sometimes plan it in advance and buy prepaid minutes (this is on a landline, mid 90s maybe). Now my mom can just chat with her friend "across the pond" whenever she wants, from the comfort of her couch, and for zero incremental cost.
I think technology that "feels like tech" is oftentimes a time sink and a waste. But the tech we take for granted? There's some pretty amazing stuff there.
for free, essentially!
Say that to the Facebook Portal a fantastic product five years ago that is now having its features gutted because Meta couldn't figure out how to make money off of it.
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Or.. ask the staff for a menu, order with them, respectfully let them know how you feel about the qr/app thing (unlikely it was their decision to implement but they can pass on the complaint), and if they're unwilling to take your order (which is hopefully unlikely at this point) feel free to make a little stink (if you feel inclined) and walk out. Still ok to complain on your blog about being spammed with the app but I'd rather try the obvious options first.
Boy do I have a story for you.
I tried to order a quesadilla from chipotle. A online exclusive. Turns out online ordering for the location nearest me was broken so I went in and explained that I was unable to order it, and I asked if I can just get one anyway. They flat out said no.
They refused to sell me a cheese quesadilla simply because it wasn’t ordered through their app/site which was broken. I just left and got food somewhere else.
I’ve been boycotting chipotle ever since.
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"In some parts of the city, you can't even park your car anymore without downloading an app."
Omg, this. I left my phone at home by accident and quickly found out that I could not pay a meter on the area I went to .... You had to download an app to pay or use you phone to register a phone number and manually enter a plate and credit card.
No phone.....meant no parking.
Good luck too if your phone happens to run out of battery.
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For many things I completely agree.
That said, we just had our second kid, and neither set of grandparents live locally. That we can video chat with our family --- for free, essentially! --- is astonishing. And it's not a big deal, not something we plan, just, "hey let's say hi to Gramma and Gramps!"
When I was a kid videoconferencing was exclusive to seriously high end offices. And when we wanted to make a long distance call, we'd sometimes plan it in advance and buy prepaid minutes (this is on a landline, mid 90s maybe). Now my mom can just chat with her friend "across the pond" whenever she wants, from the comfort of her couch, and for zero incremental cost.
I think technology that "feels like tech" is oftentimes a time sink and a waste. But the tech we take for granted? There's some pretty amazing stuff there.
There's magic and then there's complexity in tech (at least this is how I think about it).
Video calling, pure magic, simple to use with major benefits.
Complex business management software that requires a degree to use? Complexity almost for complexity's sake to lock an organisation into a support contract.
Web stores? Usually magic, especially with refined payment processing and smooth ordering. Can verge into over complex coughAmazoncough.
Internal network administration (Active Directory) and cloud tech, often complexity for complexity's sake again.
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I work in a coffee shop; I already feel sufficiently dehumanized by the amount of people who answer my "how are you today?" with "cappuccino to-go". I would hate to work in a café where you order via your phone.
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For many things I completely agree.
That said, we just had our second kid, and neither set of grandparents live locally. That we can video chat with our family --- for free, essentially! --- is astonishing. And it's not a big deal, not something we plan, just, "hey let's say hi to Gramma and Gramps!"
When I was a kid videoconferencing was exclusive to seriously high end offices. And when we wanted to make a long distance call, we'd sometimes plan it in advance and buy prepaid minutes (this is on a landline, mid 90s maybe). Now my mom can just chat with her friend "across the pond" whenever she wants, from the comfort of her couch, and for zero incremental cost.
I think technology that "feels like tech" is oftentimes a time sink and a waste. But the tech we take for granted? There's some pretty amazing stuff there.
Tech tends to goes through stages:
A need or idea is created. Usually by a small independent entity.
A proof of concept is developed and starts to gain ground.
Investors poor money into the concept to an extreme degree. Tech grows in functionality, matures and develops into a useful tool.
The the investors demand a return on the investment and the money dries up.
Company either goes bankrupt or their product goes to shit.
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"In some parts of the city, you can't even park your car anymore without downloading an app."
Omg, this. I left my phone at home by accident and quickly found out that I could not pay a meter on the area I went to .... You had to download an app to pay or use you phone to register a phone number and manually enter a plate and credit card.
No phone.....meant no parking.
Good luck too if your phone happens to run out of battery.
Yeah but parking has always been bad.
You had to carry change. Meters were always out of order or would just eat your change without issuing a ticket, and the people checking never gave a shit and would give you a fine anyway.
My only complaint is the app, everyone should offer a website or an app, but if you're going to park there a few times an app does make sense.
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"In some parts of the city, you can't even park your car anymore without downloading an app."
Omg, this. I left my phone at home by accident and quickly found out that I could not pay a meter on the area I went to .... You had to download an app to pay or use you phone to register a phone number and manually enter a plate and credit card.
No phone.....meant no parking.
Good luck too if your phone happens to run out of battery.
Yep, technofeudalism is here.
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Scenario1:
"Um, hi. Can I just order here inside? Thanks. I'm really hating the apps now. For sure: one medium cold-brew, please. Yes, thanks, to go. Okay; tap here? Excellent. Oh. Put 'guppy' on the cup. Thanks! [pause] Oh, perfect. Hey, thanks again for letting me skip the app. Those are so frustrating! I'm really starting to avoid any place that uses them, and I'm so grateful I can still come in. Have a great day!"
Scenario2:
"Um, hi. Can I just order here? No? Just the app? That's too bad: I'm really getting frustrated with the app and I'm starting to avoid places that need them. Nope, that's all I needed, sorry. Thanks anyway, and have a great day!"
I like this idea because
- you're affirming the target behaviour
- you're getting a coffee and going
- you're being chipper so they don't feed off your grumpy face
- you're providing feedback without being too much 'that guy', I hope, to the serving staff.
In all things, you don't wanna be That Guy, because you know servers don't need that shit. But, while the odds are slim of feedback getting up the chain of command, you're being clear (and probably more concise) as to how to get more of your business in case the feedback DOES go up.
because you know servers don't need that shit.
No. Dead wrong. It's precisely the frontline staff who need customer feedback, and if makes them uncomfortable then so much the better.
It's the rank and file's job to pass criticism of the service offering on in team meetings, culture surveys, etc. My job sucks this week because I have to do x and yet the customers all hate it. Staff will drive change to policy when it's their ears copping the response day-to-day.
'I couldn't possibly bother the floor person' is code for 'I am going to tolerate in silence any corporate policy no matter how obnoxious', and line management and the executive know it.
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Yeah but parking has always been bad.
You had to carry change. Meters were always out of order or would just eat your change without issuing a ticket, and the people checking never gave a shit and would give you a fine anyway.
My only complaint is the app, everyone should offer a website or an app, but if you're going to park there a few times an app does make sense.
Neither a phone nor website would work if your phone battery is flat. The meter should at least have a way for someone to park their car if they don't have a functioning phone, or internet access, even before the hellscape of needing a separate app for everything.
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Oh for sure…and I’m here after slashdot stopped listening to users, then digg, then Reddit …
Right, so the buck stops here with FOSS, finally!
...
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Neither a phone nor website would work if your phone battery is flat. The meter should at least have a way for someone to park their car if they don't have a functioning phone, or internet access, even before the hellscape of needing a separate app for everything.
You're in a car. There's probably a charging port there. Sucks if you don't have a phone, but it sucked before when you didn't have change.
Parking has always been a privilege not a right, and if you're not prepared you're going to get a ticket.
I get that it's annoying but if my phone broke and I suddenly had to pay for parking with coins, I don't know what I'd do either. Everything is cashless now, where would I get coins from?
