Used Tesla prices tumble as embarrassed owners look to sell
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I feel bad for Nikola Tesla having his name associated with all this nonsense. Not even death let him escape from rich assholes taking credit for the work of others.
If it makes you feel any better his first name has fared just as poorly in terms of automakers lmao
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I disagree on it mattering, and there are plenty of correlations including executives with histories across the auto industry. These companies aren’t as nimble or efficient as their branding suggests - they’ve operated with the same tactics for decades and the holocaust was not that long ago. Id argue the only thing that’s changed is corporate rebranding & propaganda because a new image was profitable, not because they magically became altruistic. Companies that escaped their problematic moments should not have escaped them - the fact that they did is itself problematic. ‘I’m sorry’ is not payment enough for profiteering off of genocide in my opinion. Well aware of how many companies are problematic, I just think we can do better.
Focusing on Elon for his actions right now is a great step and focus area tho!
So, if the Volkswagen Group car brands all dissolved and the people in charge created a new company that'd be just fine? Why would we boycott a company for what happened 80 years ago? We can just build a wall around Germany then.
What exactly is problematic? The past has happened and it cannot be changed; how you deal with it is the only question, and the Germans in particular have dealt with it admirably. It only matters what they do with they're given. Nothing is static, especially not a company which is just a reflection of their owners and employees.
Would it make you or anyone happier if we drove in Skodas rather than Volkswagens?
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I have one that’s nearly 7 years old, fully paid for and still works well. I hate having to own any car and environmentally, the best car is the one you already have. Getting an equivalent car at a reduced trade-in price would cost 20k and I would do it on principle if I could afford to.
BMW and Mercedes both supported Nazi’s during the holocaust and I believe they should receive the same treatment but it’s been the better part of a century and they’re still here. I’d go so far as to argue that cars are just consumerized war vehicles that a civil society has limited use for given the potential benefits of mass transit.
Oil companies bribed and lobbied against clean, efficient, exciting transit decades ago and were all poorer for it.
BMW and Mercedes both supported Nazi’s during the holocaust and I believe they should receive the same treatment but it’s been the better part of a century and they’re still here
If people knew what the Nazis were planning to do back then, they might have boycotted BMW and Mercedes too, strangling them in the crib. Americans know what Nazis are; they were literally our biggest enemy and our greatest military victory, and the vast majority of Americans oppose Nazis. I think the only hesitation seems to be that people either don't believe Elon actually is a Nazi, or that they think he's just "TrOlLiNg ThE LiBs!!!11".
Getting an equivalent car at a reduced trade-in price would cost 20k and I would do it on principle if I could afford to.
That really sucks, and I don't think you are a Nazi... but you're driving a BMW in 1933. You're not going to get any sympathy from people on the right side of history.
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That's the part I never understood. Even if you weren't a Musk fan boy and before Musk showed his true colors, Telsa has always, ALWAYS been shit quality. I remember back in 2015, or so, there was a video of someone finally getting their Telsa and it had a massive crack running the length of the driver side A-pillar, yet they just ignored it.
I'll have to be honest and admit back when I was in high school or so, I was enthusiastic about electric cars and his seemed like some of the best. He was also opening up the charging standards so that there could be a mixed playing field. Back then, I was likely ready to dismiss small critiques as the retaliation of the fossil fuel industry.
God I hate old me.
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yeah, dude was so good at electrical shit I literally cannot comprehend how he got to some of his ideas from where he was.
I think he was just intuitively good at seeing what exactly is the portrayal of electricity and magnetism. A unique genius with a certain insight.
I sometimes feel that there were many businesses concerns that grew around his early research and they were so successful that his newer research must have been a threat to that.
Through all the mystery, half-truths, and frankly magical thinking people have with this man, it's really hard to know what he was up to in his final days of work, before he became a homeless bag-man. I somehow feel, without making any kind of declarative statement, that he was working on transmission of energy with longitudinal (vs transverse) waves, and discovering methods of conveying and extracting electrical potential from and through Earth.
Inline Edit: To expand on the above paragraph: The Earth doesn't really "absorb" electrons like a pillow absorbing a ping pong ball. The energy in the negative charges that the Earth grounds must move in waves, therefore they're grounded but now the waves are bouncing around in the Earth; that energy still exists and may sum with other waves in an additive way. I believe, again without making a declarative statement, that Tesla recognized this and was pioneering research on how to transmit energy via, and gather momentum from those waves. There were successes transmitting energy and encoded information through Earth which can be repeated today with garbage dump salvage electronics. I believe he was discovering a few dangerous things as well: Harmonic discharges of electrical devices to ground could be captured (think telecommunications and military); and he was conducting novel elemental research on tapping Earth to harmonize and extract force(s) - what these things portended led to his complete scientific alienation.
The word "free energy" always obliterates any form of rational discourse. But there was something to it in a way, but to clarify, not in a literal way. Not in the sense of violating fundamental laws of conservation, rather seeing the "other side of the coin" that if the Earth is effectively infinite Ground then it's also effectively an "infinite" source of power if harvested.
I've never really "researched" the man directly but what I do know comes from quite a bit of my casual STEM self-study over decades.
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Who will service those when Tesla goes out of business? Where will you get parts? Yeah, it's time to jump ship
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I'll have to be honest and admit back when I was in high school or so, I was enthusiastic about electric cars and his seemed like some of the best. He was also opening up the charging standards so that there could be a mixed playing field. Back then, I was likely ready to dismiss small critiques as the retaliation of the fossil fuel industry.
God I hate old me.
You're always supposed to hate or be embarrassed by the old you; that means you learned. It means growth. It's a good thing.
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"huge financial loss"
So why do these people buy these expensive cars they can't afford in the first place?
Surely they would've made a good financial decision and bought a used Toyota at a fraction of the price if their finances weren't in order?
In 2012 a Ford Focus full Electric was almost $40,000 MSRP with a probable markup at just about any dealer in the country. The only thing that makes that kind of investment affordable is the tax break. The Tesla model 3 (in comparison) was around $25,000 MSRP in 2019. With a 3 year auto loan at 5-6% interest that cost is $31,760.50. The electric focus would have cost
$49,305.44 for the same loan term and interest rate.And they can't even sell these vehicles for bluebook value (assuming that the vehicle is paid off and they aren't upside down on the loan for say a loan term of 5 or 7 years).
A Mach e? Almost $39,000 MSRP. Chevy Bolt? $27,500 MSRP. Hyundai Ioniq? Almost $40,000 MSRP. Nissan Leaf is just over $29,000.
There aren't that many cars that are good financial decisions to be made in a market with so few options where range and ability to charge are majorly important to what you buy.
Toyota's Mirai isn't even top rated and it starts at $52,000. So yes. Huge financial loss, and Tesla's aren't that expensive when compared to other brands (the cybercuck not included).
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if Nikola Tesla weren't a eugenicist i'd agree with you
The year 2100 will see eugenics universally established. In past ages, the law governing the survival of the fittest roughly weeded out the less desirable strains. Then man’s new sense of pity began to interfere with the ruthless workings of nature. As a result, we continue to keep alive and to breed the unfit. The only method compatible with our notions of civilization and the race is to prevent the breeding of the unfit by sterilization and the deliberate guidance of the mating instinct. Several European countries and a number of states of the American Union sterilize the criminal and the insane. This is not sufficient. The trend of opinion among eugenists is that we must make marriage more difficult. Certainly no one who is not a desirable parent should be permitted to produce progeny. A century from now it will no more occur to a normal person to mate with a person eugenically unfit than to marry a habitual criminal.
Oof, that's a tough read.
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If it makes you feel any better his first name has fared just as poorly in terms of automakers lmao
I'm actually a big fan of Edison Motors, who are working to make heavy trucks into hybrids. And they're Canadian!
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it was the turn of the 20th century; everybody was a eugenicist. that's why we say 'people from the past sucked'.
People say that because they support it and they don't think it's a big deal. There were always anti-eugenicist movements (and always people opposed to fucking children, and having slaves, and even eating meat or going to war, and other morally shitty things justified with this excuse). That's literally how the movements against these things came about - people throughout time have been against them. You just discount them because you align yourself with the other side, for some reason.
Tesla was not mentally well. But he had the power to make weapons, including a so called "Death Beam"
https://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_mispapers.htmlAnd look, Trump connection:
After a three-day investigation, Trump's report concluded that there was nothing which would constitute a hazard in unfriendly hands, stating:
"His [Tesla's] thoughts and efforts during at least the past 15 years were primarily of a speculative, philosophical, and somewhat promotional character often concerned with the production and wireless transmission of power; but did not include new, sound, workable principles or methods for realizing such results.[233]"
In a box purported to contain a part of Tesla's "death ray", Trump found a 45-year-old multidecade resistance box.
https://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_mispapers.html
An operation code-named "Project Nick" was heavily funded and placed under the command of Brigadier General L. C. Craigie to test the feasibility of Tesla's concept. Details of the experiments were never published, and the project was apparently discontinued. But something peculiar happened. The copies of Tesla's papers disappeared and nobody knows what happened to them.
The morning after the inventor's death, his nephew Sava Kosanovic´ hurried to his uncle's room at the Hotel New Yorker. He was an up-and-coming Yugoslav official with suspected connections to the communist party in his country. By the time he arrived, Tesla's body had already been removed, and Kosanovic´ suspected that someone had already gone through his uncle's effects. Technical papers were missing as well as a black notebook he knew Tesla kept—a notebook with several hundred pages, some of which were marked "Government."
P. E. Foxworth, assistant director of the New York FBI office, was called in to investigate. According to Foxworth, the government was "vitally interested" in preserving Tesla's papers. Two days after Tesla's death, representatives of the Office of Alien Property went to his room at the New Yorker Hotel and seized all his possessions.
Dr. John G. Trump, an electrical engineer with the National Defense Research Committee of the Office of Scientific Research and Development, was called in to analyze the Tesla papers in OAP custody.
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yeah, dude was so good at electrical shit I literally cannot comprehend how he got to some of his ideas from where he was.
He had really bad autism. He was in love with a pigeon. Brilliant he was, but mad as a hatter.
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I'm actually a big fan of Edison Motors, who are working to make heavy trucks into hybrids. And they're Canadian!
I'm excited for their hybrid conversion kits
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Considered by fucking who? lmao jesus christ, it's also not hard to figure out Elon has been a Nazi for a long while
Dude, relax, you’re fighting with people that agree with you that Elon is a Nazi piece of shit. If a bunch of people that agree with you, more or less, are downvoting you and saying that your anger on this one is misplaced, maybe it’s time to look inward.
Let people realize they made a mistake, jeez. That’s all this is. People made an uninformed decision, and are now realizing their mistake. You never made a mistake before? Jfc
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I'll have to be honest and admit back when I was in high school or so, I was enthusiastic about electric cars and his seemed like some of the best. He was also opening up the charging standards so that there could be a mixed playing field. Back then, I was likely ready to dismiss small critiques as the retaliation of the fossil fuel industry.
God I hate old me.
All your reasons were valid though. Teslas were the best electric cars for a long time, probably not so anymore. Tesla as a brand has done good things, like you say opening up their charging standard which is superior to all the other competitors.
Personally, I wouldn't get a Tesla because they are sort of like the apple of car companies, e.g. anti-consumer and anti-repair. Plus, Musk owning it is another big negative.
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I can understand why your next one will be electric as pretty much all the benefits you describe are benefits of an EV not a Tesla.
I drive an old beater of a leaf and have the same list
Benefits of specifically Tesla is that they're dirt cheap comparatively, especially if you actually want a car and not some giant honking SUV or pickup truck. You can get a car with a 360+ mile range (3rd parties tested and got slightly more) for ~$35k after federal rebate. No one can compete with that and it's not even close.
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That's the part I never understood. Even if you weren't a Musk fan boy and before Musk showed his true colors, Telsa has always, ALWAYS been shit quality. I remember back in 2015, or so, there was a video of someone finally getting their Telsa and it had a massive crack running the length of the driver side A-pillar, yet they just ignored it.
Tesla is basically a case study in top down engineering. Radical ideas promised by marketing, sometimes good and sometimes bad, executed in a massive fucking rush which results in tons of build quality and general delivering on promises issues.
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Tesla is basically a case study in top down engineering. Radical ideas promised by marketing, sometimes good and sometimes bad, executed in a massive fucking rush which results in tons of build quality and general delivering on promises issues.
Which only worked at first because they were a start up. At that point many people will accept the early adopter woes, but Tesla never quite matured out of it.
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He had really bad autism. He was in love with a pigeon. Brilliant he was, but mad as a hatter.
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People say that because they support it and they don't think it's a big deal. There were always anti-eugenicist movements (and always people opposed to fucking children, and having slaves, and even eating meat or going to war, and other morally shitty things justified with this excuse). That's literally how the movements against these things came about - people throughout time have been against them. You just discount them because you align yourself with the other side, for some reason.
Tesla was not mentally well. But he had the power to make weapons, including a so called "Death Beam"
https://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_mispapers.htmlAnd look, Trump connection:
After a three-day investigation, Trump's report concluded that there was nothing which would constitute a hazard in unfriendly hands, stating:
"His [Tesla's] thoughts and efforts during at least the past 15 years were primarily of a speculative, philosophical, and somewhat promotional character often concerned with the production and wireless transmission of power; but did not include new, sound, workable principles or methods for realizing such results.[233]"
In a box purported to contain a part of Tesla's "death ray", Trump found a 45-year-old multidecade resistance box.
https://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_mispapers.html
An operation code-named "Project Nick" was heavily funded and placed under the command of Brigadier General L. C. Craigie to test the feasibility of Tesla's concept. Details of the experiments were never published, and the project was apparently discontinued. But something peculiar happened. The copies of Tesla's papers disappeared and nobody knows what happened to them.
The morning after the inventor's death, his nephew Sava Kosanovic´ hurried to his uncle's room at the Hotel New Yorker. He was an up-and-coming Yugoslav official with suspected connections to the communist party in his country. By the time he arrived, Tesla's body had already been removed, and Kosanovic´ suspected that someone had already gone through his uncle's effects. Technical papers were missing as well as a black notebook he knew Tesla kept—a notebook with several hundred pages, some of which were marked "Government."
P. E. Foxworth, assistant director of the New York FBI office, was called in to investigate. According to Foxworth, the government was "vitally interested" in preserving Tesla's papers. Two days after Tesla's death, representatives of the Office of Alien Property went to his room at the New Yorker Hotel and seized all his possessions.
Dr. John G. Trump, an electrical engineer with the National Defense Research Committee of the Office of Scientific Research and Development, was called in to analyze the Tesla papers in OAP custody.
im saying you can't really judge a non-expert for being the kind of shitty guy that was in vogue to be shitty at the time, especially if it's not a primary thing. nicola tesla doing a eugenics? yeah whatever. his approximate contemporary, margaret sanger, you can give a lot more shit on the topic, because she was a fucking doctor.
this doesn't just apply to history! as someone who has generally been on the right side of history, I have lived through this. several times. A current example, aside from the obvious nazi shit and transphobia, would be the whole push to equate large language models with "AI" and orient all of our society's productive capacity towards making them like we're a giant god damn paperclip machine. I can't give any lay person who was into the tech in 2023 too terribly much shit about it-but if you were in any sort of information science, math, IT, or neuro-anything, and you were in favor of how it was being pushed for more than five minutes, I will mock you mercilessly until the day one of us dies, and then if it was you, ill graffiti the mockery on your fucking grave.
how strongly was he in favor of eugenics? did he have any ability to push the needle? did he care emotionally, or was it just a quick glance 'yeah that sounds close enough and I trust the experts. anyway, back to stuff I actually care about' kind of opinion?
