'Admit you're Hamas or we'll send a drone to kill your family'
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I don't understand the point of that, honestly. Torturing someone (thus punishing them regardless) into confessing, coaxing a confession out of someone making the confession itself highly incredulous. What's the point?
The point is the cruelty.
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This is yet another one of many examples that affirms the correct answer to "does israel have a right to exist?" is no. No nation has an inherent right to exist, but certainly a nation as horrible as israel should not exist for many reasons, including morally, just like how nazi germany has no right to exist.
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Data you get from people by using torture is automatically invalid.
When are we finally going to consider this the war crime it is?Torture isn't useful as an intelligence-gathering tool, but that's not what it's being used for here. Torture works quite well for manufacturing confessions to use as propaganda to justify further killing/torture/other crimes.
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I think you’re getting into dangerous territory with that thinking. People are not a monolith, even when an outspoken and visible portion of the population are monsters. Secondly, you say “Nazi germany has no right to exist,” but Germany does. Painting with that broad a brush and speaking in such absolutes opens the door to horrible acts. Because the zionists speak the exact same way about Palestine. That’s where that thinking and language can lead you.
There is no equation of victimhood here. Zionists have stolen Palestinian houses and land.
There were Nazi Germans occupying houses in Poland which they stole from Jews. After the Holocaust those Nazis were expelled back to where they came from. In this case from Nazi Germany (which included Poland) to Germany (without Poland)
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I think you’re getting into dangerous territory with that thinking. People are not a monolith, even when an outspoken and visible portion of the population are monsters. Secondly, you say “Nazi germany has no right to exist,” but Germany does. Painting with that broad a brush and speaking in such absolutes opens the door to horrible acts. Because the zionists speak the exact same way about Palestine. That’s where that thinking and language can lead you.
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This is yet another one of many examples that affirms the correct answer to "does israel have a right to exist?" is no. No nation has an inherent right to exist, but certainly a nation as horrible as israel should not exist for many reasons, including morally, just like how nazi germany has no right to exist.
If you condemn all the people for the actions of their government then you are no better than they are.
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Torture isn't useful as an intelligence-gathering tool, but that's not what it's being used for here. Torture works quite well for manufacturing confessions to use as propaganda to justify further killing/torture/other crimes.
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If you condemn all the people for the actions of their government then you are no better than they are.
the comment is referring to a government
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If you condemn all the people for the actions of their government then you are no better than they are.
Saying that the nation state of Israel doesn't have a right to exist isn't the same as saying the people of Israel don't have the right to exist. A nation state is just a legal construct, it doesn't have human rights. The people who live in any region are not the nation state, and they have a right to exist, but they do not have the right to create and maintain an ethnostate that oppresses other people.
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Have you tried? Your fantasy depiction of unfortunate misguided Nazis does not meet up with reality.
I do. I'm saying I'm surprised I don't see more. It happens with spaces on the left all the time too.
It's crazy how in the last ten years we have allowed moderation to drive us into separate corners. A time out was maybe a good idea. But we should still be working to merge back into a single Internet.
And fuck off with the 'they're are all Nazis' shit. That's the same bullshit that made MAGA go off the rails.
I know on Reddit that r/conservative had a bit of a meltdown because their users started having honest takes like "people should be held accountable for Intel leak"
They have this term "my fellow conservatives" that was clearly bots trying to suppress anyone from voicing dissent. Surprisingly lots of down votes for it. Just saying maybe there's a middle ground more than people think.
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Most moderators of conservative spaces actively remove this type of news. If you manage to find a conservative space allowing this kind of stuff by all means do post it there.
That's kind of my point though. There's like 15 moderators maybe and those moderators likely moderate a measly 1500 other sites and forums and twitch hot tub chats. They can only do so much before they have to either hammer down and prove they are not free speech or they let some past.
Plus this is saying that you're posting honestly. Legit news that is to drive discussion and not to just rub a dog's nose in it's own shit.
Would be great to go back to the days when we're all mingled. I honestly hate a lot of spaces now because there filled with people who are too out there left or right. It's boring, it's predictable and lacks almost no insight into any of these issues. It's all just rhetoric and cawing
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Even the allies didn't deny Germany had a right to exist just its then leadership and most individually culpable
Except that the Nazi nation state no longer existed after World War two. It was dismantled and replaced with a new one, it wasn't even contiguous it was carved up and divvied out to allies who had different ideas about what the new state should look like. The Nazi state didn't have a right to exist, and neither does any nation state. They're just legal constructs and should be discarded when they are harmful.
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If you condemn all the people for the actions of their government then you are no better than they are.
this is your strawman judging you
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My dude, the whole thing is a settler colonialist project. It has no right to exist, and no word salad attempting to introduce nuance into a black and white situation is convincing anyone otherwise. This isn't Reddit.
The fact that you think no nuance exists in the Israel Palestine conflict is genuinely insane.
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The fact that you think no nuance exists in the Israel Palestine conflict is genuinely insane.
The only nuance there is to be had is for Israelis born there who are advocating for complete integration under a one state solution. Bar that, they can fuck right off.
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Always have been. Hitler said himself he was inspired by the American way of treating people of colour.
Plenty of evidence of that, one that I find particularly telling is the gasoline baths they would give Latin Americans.
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You gotta wonder how Israel will get out from under netenyahu/spelling. He’s their sadam now
Nope nope nope. Putting the blame entirely on Netanyahu is like putting the entire blame on Trump. Both are symptoms of an underlying society and many people enabling and condoning that behavior.
Look at stats, watch translated videos of their media, read Israeli and non-Israeli historians. This shit ain't new and some would argue is exactly what the Zionist state was created to carry out. -
Nope nope nope. Putting the blame entirely on Netanyahu is like putting the entire blame on Trump. Both are symptoms of an underlying society and many people enabling and condoning that behavior.
Look at stats, watch translated videos of their media, read Israeli and non-Israeli historians. This shit ain't new and some would argue is exactly what the Zionist state was created to carry out.Oh youre not wrong but sadam wasn’t in a vacuum either is my broader point. These personalities have always existed in every time period in human history. It wasn’t until the cognitive revolution of he 50s did we start to develop archetypes of personalities and on a broader macro sense the cognitive behaviors of societies as a whole.
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I'm always really surprised more people don't post this stuff in conservative dominated spaces.
They're not monsters. Aside from the trolls and bots that are paid to try to sway them to be. Also the under 20 year olds that are edge Lords.
I think it's legit to get discussions and to challenge their core beliefs honestly. I do it. Some get through, sometimes I get banned. But I'm surprised more people don't go out and do similar
It's hard to do with online randos whose face you can't see. You need extra rules to ensure civility and fact-based constructive reasoning. And even then there will be the odd vatnik agitator throwing potential constructive debate in the toilet.
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American Dr Mark Perlmutter, who has volunteered in Gaza, says one of his Palestinian colleagues was taken by Israeli occupation forces, had his fingers shattered and was told to confess to being a member of Hamas or have his wife gang raped in front of him.
Soldiers 'crushed' his fingers, Perlmutter explains, adding that they also threatened to 'send a drone to your bedroom window and incinerate your children.' The doctor did not confess and spent 11 months being tortured in Israeli detention.
