After 50 million miles, Waymos crash a lot less than human drivers
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So fuck everyone who can't afford to live in the city?
Yea, I can, do, and will vote for officials that want to expand public transit. I also appreciate other efforts being taken, because I don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.
So fuck everyone who can't afford to, or doesn't want to, live in the city?
What the hell? Were did you pull that from my comment?
We need to work to improve public transport everywhere. Switzerland can have timely consistent trains to tiny villages in the fucking alps. We can have it here. We need to push for it though.
People saying "it doesn't work for me right now so shut up" are actively harmful to the discussion. They're choosing to be in a position where it doesn't work at all (though it doesn't work well for almost anyone in America outside of DC and NYC). I'm not saying "fuck them" I'm saying "your opinion is not relevant if it's only complaining about doing better because it's bad for you right now."
Its like saying we shouldn't go to the moon because it's hard right now, or we shouldn't try to develop nuclear fusion technology because it's hard right now. I don't care if it's hard right now. We're discussing what could/should be.
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just slowed down to 3mph when it had 15 years left or so
Damn, spending 15 years in a car going 3mph sounds terrible.
Haha, yeah I didn't check that, was eating. 15 yards. I'm actually still sitting there.
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So fuck everyone who can't afford to, or doesn't want to, live in the city?
What the hell? Were did you pull that from my comment?
We need to work to improve public transport everywhere. Switzerland can have timely consistent trains to tiny villages in the fucking alps. We can have it here. We need to push for it though.
People saying "it doesn't work for me right now so shut up" are actively harmful to the discussion. They're choosing to be in a position where it doesn't work at all (though it doesn't work well for almost anyone in America outside of DC and NYC). I'm not saying "fuck them" I'm saying "your opinion is not relevant if it's only complaining about doing better because it's bad for you right now."
Its like saying we shouldn't go to the moon because it's hard right now, or we shouldn't try to develop nuclear fusion technology because it's hard right now. I don't care if it's hard right now. We're discussing what could/should be.
Here's a summary of this thread:
Guy 1 - why is anyone doing waymo when there's public transit
Guy 2 - last mile problem
Guy 3 - it works great for me in the city surrounded by bus stops, no last mile problem
Me - it doesn't work great for me barely outside the city. (My point being that it'll take a lot to get public transit to within 1 mile of where I am, let alone to someone even further from the city)
You - you chose to live there so stop complaining
Me - so fuck me and everyone farther out than me apparently.
That's how we got here. I simply stated my situation as it relates to public transit, and you tell me it's just my own fault and I should shut up.
We have a long way to go to get ubiquitous public transit in America. I doubt we will ever get there. It makes sense to consider other options as well.
I'm saying we should go to the moon AND develop nuclear fusion.
You want to know what's harmful to discussion? Pricks like you telling people that their opinion is irrelevant.
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Here's a summary of this thread:
Guy 1 - why is anyone doing waymo when there's public transit
Guy 2 - last mile problem
Guy 3 - it works great for me in the city surrounded by bus stops, no last mile problem
Me - it doesn't work great for me barely outside the city. (My point being that it'll take a lot to get public transit to within 1 mile of where I am, let alone to someone even further from the city)
You - you chose to live there so stop complaining
Me - so fuck me and everyone farther out than me apparently.
That's how we got here. I simply stated my situation as it relates to public transit, and you tell me it's just my own fault and I should shut up.
We have a long way to go to get ubiquitous public transit in America. I doubt we will ever get there. It makes sense to consider other options as well.
I'm saying we should go to the moon AND develop nuclear fusion.
You want to know what's harmful to discussion? Pricks like you telling people that their opinion is irrelevant.
I think you misunderstood most of what doesn't agree with you (purposefully or not).
Waymo is an investment.
So is public transport.
One is more effective and better for more people.
Why are we investing in Waymo?
You want to know what's harmful to discussion? Pricks like you telling people that their opinion is irrelevant.
Your opinion about right now is irrelevant to the discussion of how things should be. It is not irrelevant in a discussion about right now, only this one. Every time public transport is discussed someone like you feels the need to say "it doesn't work FOR ME (currently)!" OK... I'm not sure why we needed to know that. No one said it was great for everyone right now so you didn't add anything to the discussion. It only is a distraction from actually trying to fix things for you. Sometimes this is on purpose and sometimes it isn't. Either way, it's harmful not helpful.
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I think you misunderstood most of what doesn't agree with you (purposefully or not).
Waymo is an investment.
So is public transport.
One is more effective and better for more people.
Why are we investing in Waymo?
You want to know what's harmful to discussion? Pricks like you telling people that their opinion is irrelevant.
Your opinion about right now is irrelevant to the discussion of how things should be. It is not irrelevant in a discussion about right now, only this one. Every time public transport is discussed someone like you feels the need to say "it doesn't work FOR ME (currently)!" OK... I'm not sure why we needed to know that. No one said it was great for everyone right now so you didn't add anything to the discussion. It only is a distraction from actually trying to fix things for you. Sometimes this is on purpose and sometimes it isn't. Either way, it's harmful not helpful.
Someone mentioned the last mile problem, and someone else responded as if it doesn't exist. I'm pointing out that it does exist.
That's all. Should we pretend like there's no problem?
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Let me clarify further: It was an attempt at humor, and not meant to be taken seriously as you are doing.
Ah. Sorry. There are some truly braindead takes on autonomous vehicles so I couldn't tell that apart from what some people have said earnestly. My bad.
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Because having a bus to pick up 7 people in a day is really efficient economically and environmentally...
Much more so than having a car-centric infrastructure. If you start cherry-picking you'll of course find cases where a car would have been more efficient but public transportation needs to be understood as a whole.
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Ah. Sorry. There are some truly braindead takes on autonomous vehicles so I couldn't tell that apart from what some people have said earnestly. My bad.
I do think it would be much safer with zero human drivers and only autonomous vehicles on the road, for sure. But I also think it would be impractical to replace everything all at once. Even the best programmed thing would eventually encounter a human driver that defies all previously known data and freaks out the computer.
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how those robot food delivery "robot ai boxes"? by starship doing?
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I completely disagree.
For example, you are using the hand brake as an example. 95 percent of people (including you, evidently) don't even understand that the handbrake is not an emergency brake, they don't get how the behavior works, or the fact that it's meant to be used as a parking breaks, I consistently see people slam their parking pawls verytime they get out of their car. (Not to mention that it doesn't even work while you are driving on most modern cars and has no modulation, as it's just a button)
If not being an idiot was good enough to drive a car, then it wouldn't be so deadly. It's also possible to fly a plane with common sense, but you wouldn't be happy if your pilot told you they don't have training.
Driving isn't easy, it's just that we accept an absolutely catastrophic amount of accidents as a cost of doing business.
It is an emergency brake when your brake fails, you donut
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I do think it would be much safer with zero human drivers and only autonomous vehicles on the road, for sure. But I also think it would be impractical to replace everything all at once. Even the best programmed thing would eventually encounter a human driver that defies all previously known data and freaks out the computer.
I don't know anything about how autonomous vehicles work. As far as humans doing unusual things, well assuming the human driver only steers the wheel and controls the gas and breaks, it should be possible with existing technology to avoid crashing into them at least as well as any human can. So that leaves really unusual things, like the human hopping out of their car in the middle of an intersection, as the high-hanging fruit to model. I would imagine for most of these really strange cases, even if the autonomous vehicle can't understand what's happening, they can at least realize that something strange is happening and then pull over.
Obviously there will be truly unusual situations that cause fatal collisions. So long as that is at a lower rate, then what's the safety concern?
Safety is a red herring IMO, as better code can fix it. There are much worse potential problems that autonomous vehicles will cause than rare collisions. NotJustBikes has a lot of points I'd never considered before in the second half of this video. (The first half, though, I found aggravating; it's just about solvable safety risks.)
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Much more so than having a car-centric infrastructure. If you start cherry-picking you'll of course find cases where a car would have been more efficient but public transportation needs to be understood as a whole.
I'm not cherry picking Im just telling you my personal experience and the town I live in
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The way I edited the quote, it was just a like joke about braking vs breaking.
Like I could make a pedantic reply about spelling, but no teslas in fact brake unexpectedly AND break unexpectedly. So, no notes!
Ah OK didn't notice that. English is 2nd language.
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I think "veritasium" or what the yt channel is called made a video about those.
It did manage to bring him to a store with a big parking lot, it did it.
As snarky as my initial comment may sound (even to me, I have by-proxy distrust of contemporary models due to their knobhead owners), I'm genuinely glad to hear they figured that one out! At least there's less danger for everyone around, at the VERY least.
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They work great in parking lots.
Source: Ridden in several Waymos
Genuinely a relief to hear, thank you!
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Just fine the one time I rode in one. It had a problem with a moving truck blocking the entire street, where it sat trying to wait to see if the moving truck was just stopped and going to move or if it was parked for good. The Waymo executed a 3 point turn and then had two construction trucks pull into the street the other direction, and they refused to back up. So the Waymo was stuck between not going forward and not going back... it just pulled forward toward the trucks and then reversed toward the moving truck. Back and forth. Then I yelled out the window for the fucking trucks to move out of the fucking road, which they couldn't drive down anyway. After that it was smooth, even getting into the parking lot.
My buddy said at his office the Waymos have an issue with pulling too far forward at the pick up spots, which makes it impossible for cars to go around them, but humans do dumb shit like that, too.
Yyyep, that sounds pretty standard fare (no pun intended), I've lived mostly in abstract neighborhoods in terms of infrastructure and had to chase rides in a grand majority of cases.
Plus, honestly, even the way it handled the construction jam sounds acceptable, reminds me of my first days of learning to drive. As long as they stop and stay stopped, that's way better than deciding to ignore the sensor data and just go for it, like... some other models...
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Considering the sort of driving issues and code violations I see on a daily basis, the standards for human drivers need raising. The issue is more lax humans than it is amazing robots.
"You don't have to be faster than the bear, you just have to be faster than the other guy"
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They're super conservative. I rode just once in one. There was a parked ambulance down a side street about 30 feet with it's lights one while paramedics helped someone. The car wouldn't drive forward through the intersection. It just detected the lights and froze. I had to get out and walk. If we all drove that conservatively we'd also have less accidents and congest the city to undrivability.
Back in February, I took a Waymo for the first time and was at first amazed. But then in the middle of an empty four lane road, it abruptly slammed the brakes, twice. There was literally nothing in the road, no cars and because it was raining, no pedestrians within sight.
If I had been holding a drink, it would have spelled disaster.
After the second abrupt stop I was bracing for more for the remainder of the ride, even though the car generally goes quite slow most of the time. It also made a strange habit of drifting lanes through intersections while the turning indicators went from left to right alternatively like it had no idea what it was doing.
Honestly it felt like being in the car with a first time driver.
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We always knew good quality self-driving tech would vastly outperform human skill. It's nice to see some decent metrics!
My drive to work is 8 minutes. This morning i almost had a crash because a guy ran a stop sigh. I don't think the bar is very high at this point.
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There's already an autonomous metro.
Now let's do intercity trains and tramways then
