OpenAI's move to allow generating "Ghibly stlye" images isn't just a cute PR stunt. It is an expression of dominance and the will to reject and refuse democratic values. It is a display of power
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An insult to life itself.
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So glad people finally waking up to these things being power plays.
Republicans, Evangelical Christians, and now Techbros are run on the same script which boils down to "rules for thee, not for me."
Being a hypocrite is simply showing others you have the power to be a hypocrite and all they can do is get mad and stop their feet. It's why the right wing loves to "trigger liberals." It's not even about actual politics or religion anymore, it's just simply "might makes right."
These are expressions of power, plain and simple. They should always be viewed as such.
In our current society, little people can get away with it. I can take whatever style I want and train a model on it. There's already many ghibli ressources in the open source scene, and a lot of them date from 2 years ago.
This whole situation is rage bait to manipulate the population into cheering for new copyright laws so politicians get little push back when they start writing pro-corporate laws regarding AI.
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In our current society, little people can get away with it. I can take whatever style I want and train a model on it. There's already many ghibli ressources in the open source scene, and a lot of them date from 2 years ago.
This whole situation is rage bait to manipulate the population into cheering for new copyright laws so politicians get little push back when they start writing pro-corporate laws regarding AI.
Did you buy the Ghibli movies you trained on or did you pirate them? Because OpenAI has argued that they are allowed to pirate and no one else.
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If Disney can't sue for this, then what exactly would be too far? We're a few steps from being able to animate our own movies in Disney style.
The interesting thing would be an algorithm that is as close to a duplicate as possible without breaking copyright.
It forces laws to be made mathematically I'd assume, or something like that?
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Cool, another preachy argument that jumps to irrational conclusions.
Because Ghibli?It is a display of power: You as an artist, an animator, an illustrator, a writer, any creative person are powerless. We will take what we want and do what we want. Because we can.
Uh…we always could & did.
Imitators have been doing that since always, long before LLMs.
No one owns an art style.This is the idea of might makes right. The banner that every totalitarian and fascist government rallied under.
That's the argument?
Plagiarism & imitating art styles is fascism?
Wow!Please make the word fascism more meaningless.
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Cool, another preachy argument that jumps to irrational conclusions.
Because Ghibli?It is a display of power: You as an artist, an animator, an illustrator, a writer, any creative person are powerless. We will take what we want and do what we want. Because we can.
Uh…we always could & did.
Imitators have been doing that since always, long before LLMs.
No one owns an art style.This is the idea of might makes right. The banner that every totalitarian and fascist government rallied under.
That's the argument?
Plagiarism & imitating art styles is fascism?
Wow!Please make the word fascism more meaningless.
Imitators have been doing that since always, long before LLMs
Fill me in a bit. Are you under the impression that artists are particularly okay with/enjoy people imitating their art style?
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Imitators have been doing that since always, long before LLMs
Fill me in a bit. Are you under the impression that artists are particularly okay with/enjoy people imitating their art style?
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Cool, another preachy argument that jumps to irrational conclusions.
Because Ghibli?It is a display of power: You as an artist, an animator, an illustrator, a writer, any creative person are powerless. We will take what we want and do what we want. Because we can.
Uh…we always could & did.
Imitators have been doing that since always, long before LLMs.
No one owns an art style.This is the idea of might makes right. The banner that every totalitarian and fascist government rallied under.
That's the argument?
Plagiarism & imitating art styles is fascism?
Wow!Please make the word fascism more meaningless.
just because you can doesn't mean you should.
I could go out and kill a person for supporting AI IP theft. I won't because it goes against my moral code.
just goes to prove my theory that anyone that supports this kind of theft is not only devoid of any morals, but lacks the integrity expected of a contributing adult.
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Imitators have been doing that since always, long before LLMs
Fill me in a bit. Are you under the impression that artists are particularly okay with/enjoy people imitating their art style?
Are we pretending this is new & their opinion matters in some new way it hasn't before?
There might be an argument to demand licensing royalties.
Is that too capitalist?
Maybe it's fine if we work that into the word fascism somehow, wear it out a bit more to hit that sweet spot.
Ooh. -
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I think it is also a kind of "you did a nice thing there, so I'll act as if I can do the same" display.
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Sucks because ghibli has always been really protective of its ip and in the future it maybe made harder and harder to see it.
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In our current society, little people can get away with it. I can take whatever style I want and train a model on it. There's already many ghibli ressources in the open source scene, and a lot of them date from 2 years ago.
This whole situation is rage bait to manipulate the population into cheering for new copyright laws so politicians get little push back when they start writing pro-corporate laws regarding AI.
https://rufuspollock.com/papers/optimal_copyright_term.pdf
June 15, 2009
Using existing data on recordings and books we obtain a point estimate of around 15 years for optimal copyright term with a 99% confidence interval extending up to 38 years
Some of us have been waiting for copyright laws to be amended downward for 16 years now.
I'm not promoting that corporations should get a free pass, I just want them to be held to the same standards they held the Pirate Bay to if we're gonna pretend that current copyright laws are good, since the centerpiece of the court case against the Pirate Bay was that they were making money from what they did. OpenAI is making shitloads of money from what they did.
But I'm all for shortening copyright, but not getting rid of it. Reforms don't have to be pro-corporate slop.
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As an artist, when people imitate me, I take it as flattery.
When a machine imitates me, I take it as an insult to life itself.
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Are we pretending this is new & their opinion matters in some new way it hasn't before?
There might be an argument to demand licensing royalties.
Is that too capitalist?
Maybe it's fine if we work that into the word fascism somehow, wear it out a bit more to hit that sweet spot.
Ooh.No. We're acting as if their opinion always mattered just as much as it does now.
While your style is not, can not, and should not be your intellectual property, you should have the right to say "I don't want you to imitate my exact style" and people should respect that.
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As an artist, when people imitate me, I take it as flattery.
When a machine imitates me, I take it as an insult to life itself.
I take it as flattery
I respect your position, and I appreciate people who are willing to share their creativity in an inspiring way like that.
However, others don't see it as flattery. Particularly in eastern cultures, it is seen as mockery or plagiarism. You can choose to disagree about why they don't want you to imitate their style, but you should always respect the request.
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The moralistic outrage is that people still have an outdated concept of intellectual property, and a blanket fear of corporations owning technological progress.
The truth is, no one can actually own an idea or style. But we have laws that try to make it a real thing. Because of regulatory capture, copyright truly only benefits corporations with lots of money, not all the little indie artists that actually would need it.
Hell, most these indie artists make their money drawing and selling fanart, which is the most literal definition of copying. Yet no one worries about that.
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https://rufuspollock.com/papers/optimal_copyright_term.pdf
June 15, 2009
Using existing data on recordings and books we obtain a point estimate of around 15 years for optimal copyright term with a 99% confidence interval extending up to 38 years
Some of us have been waiting for copyright laws to be amended downward for 16 years now.
I'm not promoting that corporations should get a free pass, I just want them to be held to the same standards they held the Pirate Bay to if we're gonna pretend that current copyright laws are good, since the centerpiece of the court case against the Pirate Bay was that they were making money from what they did. OpenAI is making shitloads of money from what they did.
But I'm all for shortening copyright, but not getting rid of it. Reforms don't have to be pro-corporate slop.
What pirate bay is doing isn't exactly transformative. I pirate most of my media and can't say I'm not for better copyright laws and a better treatment of pirate bay, I just think the situations are different.
I don't think saying "if pirate bay is illegal, so should training ai without compensations" is exactly fair. (I wish the actual people contributing could be compensated, but how it's set up, we would be giving a few companies a monopoly while compensating mostly data aggregators.)
Reforms don't have to be pro-corporate slop.
Sadly, the media and most of the population is practically begging for it. When you couple that with the pressure exerted by record companies, publishing houses, etc, it is clear those are the reforms we get if any.
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Did you buy the Ghibli movies you trained on or did you pirate them? Because OpenAI has argued that they are allowed to pirate and no one else.
Mostly youtube, reddit and image search. I guess I could just record a Netflix stream if I needed the whole movie. I guess recording a Netflix stream is pirating? Probably easier with a torrent.
What does it matters? I don't think pirating is unethical especially when it's not even redistribution but transformative. Openai has never stopped me from pirating or even asked me to stop. Not sure what you mean with "no one else".
You ever ask yourself if the memes made from movie scenes used pirated media?
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just because you can doesn't mean you should.
I could go out and kill a person for supporting AI IP theft. I won't because it goes against my moral code.
just goes to prove my theory that anyone that supports this kind of theft is not only devoid of any morals, but lacks the integrity expected of a contributing adult.
If people only did what they should, then many acceptable actions would not get done.
Art & leisure or posting here are optional: there's no should there.
It is a fallacy of modal logic to claim an action that is not one that should be done is an action that should not be done.There's no reason you should post here, yet you did.
Does that mean you're "devoid of any morals" & "lack the integrity expected of a contributing adult"?Imitation & derivative works hardly rise to anything worth fussing over & losing total perspective.
If you pay attention, all human creativity is derivative, nothing is truly original.
Works build on & reference each other.
Techniques get refined.
It's why we have genres.
From the Epic of Gilgamesh & ancient mythology to modern storytelling, or the development of perspective in graphical works across time, there's a clear process of imitation & development across all of it. -
I take it as flattery
I respect your position, and I appreciate people who are willing to share their creativity in an inspiring way like that.
However, others don't see it as flattery. Particularly in eastern cultures, it is seen as mockery or plagiarism. You can choose to disagree about why they don't want you to imitate their style, but you should always respect the request.
If eastern cultures don't like imitation, why are there a million identical isekai light novels with an average joe who dies, reincarnates in a slightly altered Dungeons and Dragons world, and gets a harem of women with huge breasts whose personalities are taken straight from TVtropes?
