OpenAI's move to allow generating "Ghibly stlye" images isn't just a cute PR stunt. It is an expression of dominance and the will to reject and refuse democratic values. It is a display of power
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The moralistic outrage is that people still have an outdated concept of intellectual property, and a blanket fear of corporations owning technological progress.
The truth is, no one can actually own an idea or style. But we have laws that try to make it a real thing. Because of regulatory capture, copyright truly only benefits corporations with lots of money, not all the little indie artists that actually would need it.
Hell, most these indie artists make their money drawing and selling fanart, which is the most literal definition of copying. Yet no one worries about that.
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https://rufuspollock.com/papers/optimal_copyright_term.pdf
June 15, 2009
Using existing data on recordings and books we obtain a point estimate of around 15 years for optimal copyright term with a 99% confidence interval extending up to 38 years
Some of us have been waiting for copyright laws to be amended downward for 16 years now.
I'm not promoting that corporations should get a free pass, I just want them to be held to the same standards they held the Pirate Bay to if we're gonna pretend that current copyright laws are good, since the centerpiece of the court case against the Pirate Bay was that they were making money from what they did. OpenAI is making shitloads of money from what they did.
But I'm all for shortening copyright, but not getting rid of it. Reforms don't have to be pro-corporate slop.
What pirate bay is doing isn't exactly transformative. I pirate most of my media and can't say I'm not for better copyright laws and a better treatment of pirate bay, I just think the situations are different.
I don't think saying "if pirate bay is illegal, so should training ai without compensations" is exactly fair. (I wish the actual people contributing could be compensated, but how it's set up, we would be giving a few companies a monopoly while compensating mostly data aggregators.)
Reforms don't have to be pro-corporate slop.
Sadly, the media and most of the population is practically begging for it. When you couple that with the pressure exerted by record companies, publishing houses, etc, it is clear those are the reforms we get if any.
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Did you buy the Ghibli movies you trained on or did you pirate them? Because OpenAI has argued that they are allowed to pirate and no one else.
Mostly youtube, reddit and image search. I guess I could just record a Netflix stream if I needed the whole movie. I guess recording a Netflix stream is pirating? Probably easier with a torrent.
What does it matters? I don't think pirating is unethical especially when it's not even redistribution but transformative. Openai has never stopped me from pirating or even asked me to stop. Not sure what you mean with "no one else".
You ever ask yourself if the memes made from movie scenes used pirated media?
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just because you can doesn't mean you should.
I could go out and kill a person for supporting AI IP theft. I won't because it goes against my moral code.
just goes to prove my theory that anyone that supports this kind of theft is not only devoid of any morals, but lacks the integrity expected of a contributing adult.
If people only did what they should, then many acceptable actions would not get done.
Art & leisure or posting here are optional: there's no should there.
It is a fallacy of modal logic to claim an action that is not one that should be done is an action that should not be done.There's no reason you should post here, yet you did.
Does that mean you're "devoid of any morals" & "lack the integrity expected of a contributing adult"?Imitation & derivative works hardly rise to anything worth fussing over & losing total perspective.
If you pay attention, all human creativity is derivative, nothing is truly original.
Works build on & reference each other.
Techniques get refined.
It's why we have genres.
From the Epic of Gilgamesh & ancient mythology to modern storytelling, or the development of perspective in graphical works across time, there's a clear process of imitation & development across all of it. -
I take it as flattery
I respect your position, and I appreciate people who are willing to share their creativity in an inspiring way like that.
However, others don't see it as flattery. Particularly in eastern cultures, it is seen as mockery or plagiarism. You can choose to disagree about why they don't want you to imitate their style, but you should always respect the request.
If eastern cultures don't like imitation, why are there a million identical isekai light novels with an average joe who dies, reincarnates in a slightly altered Dungeons and Dragons world, and gets a harem of women with huge breasts whose personalities are taken straight from TVtropes?
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No. We're acting as if their opinion always mattered just as much as it does now.
While your style is not, can not, and should not be your intellectual property, you should have the right to say "I don't want you to imitate my exact style" and people should respect that.
We’re acting as if their opinion always mattered just as much as it does now.
So not at all: gotcha.
you should have the right to say “I don’t want you to imitate my exact style”
You do.
people should respect that
"That's just like your opinion, man." meme goes here.
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Figures. The wealthy could never fully buy power with just wealth, there was always someone smarter that was a threat. Now, they can just buy intelligence, thanks to AI, and crush everything else with their sheer weight.
Is this the great filter? The ultimate fate of all species?
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If eastern cultures don't like imitation, why are there a million identical isekai light novels with an average joe who dies, reincarnates in a slightly altered Dungeons and Dragons world, and gets a harem of women with huge breasts whose personalities are taken straight from TVtropes?
Because humans suck?
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We’re acting as if their opinion always mattered just as much as it does now.
So not at all: gotcha.
you should have the right to say “I don’t want you to imitate my exact style”
You do.
people should respect that
"That's just like your opinion, man." meme goes here.
So, to recap, your position is this:
Artists do not deserve the respect that would allow them to be creative unfettered. Gotcha.
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Nah information should be free. Ghibli doesn't own its style. Fuck this copyright propaganda machine.
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Will you guys shut up about this?
There are genuinely some big issues with AI that need to be addressed but they are drowned out by morons melting down over people making dumb little Ghibli style images for their own amusement.
Shout about insurance companies using AI to auto dent people's medical claims, not about some dude Turnjng a picture of his cat into anime style
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Potentially unpopular opinion, but I don't think art or artstyles should be copyrighted.
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So, to recap, your position is this:
Artists do not deserve the respect that would allow them to be creative unfettered. Gotcha.
Artists never needed anyone's respect to be creative: the suggestion is belittling to artists.
The real point is the article fails to argue well.
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Does OpenAI offer the same service in Disney "'Mickey Mousify"
And how has that played out.
It's a sincere question (I don't know) though i admit to not trying to learn, as I've never played with any of the AI tools
I googled it for you. Yes, they advertise "From Studio Ghibli, Pixar, and Disney Classics to The Simpsons, South Park, and more."
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Cool, another preachy argument that jumps to irrational conclusions.
Because Ghibli?It is a display of power: You as an artist, an animator, an illustrator, a writer, any creative person are powerless. We will take what we want and do what we want. Because we can.
Uh…we always could & did.
Imitators have been doing that since always, long before LLMs.
No one owns an art style.This is the idea of might makes right. The banner that every totalitarian and fascist government rallied under.
That's the argument?
Plagiarism & imitating art styles is fascism?
Wow!Please make the word fascism more meaningless.
Exactly this is so frustrating that people fall in for copyright propaganda just because "big tech is bad".
Ghibli doesn't own a style. It has sbeen made by thousands of animators and millions of illustrations and influences before them.
This is not the way to get back at big tech.
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Potentially unpopular opinion, but I don't think art or artstyles should be copyrighted.
They aren't, thankfully
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OpenAI picked Studio Ghibli because Miyazaki hates their approach.
I highly doubt it. They picked it because the Ghibli style is very popular among users. There’s also no reason to believe that it violates “democratic values”. Since it’s popular, the general population is voting that they LIKE it, not that they oppose it.
Downvote me all you like, but this is trying to put a lot of malice where the simpler explanation is just “money”.
Yeah the text makes many freestyle assumptions, although the overall sentiment is correct that these big companies and especially egocentric billionaires do stuff to trigger others simply for power display. I believe the text linked about it being a distraction for the new round of funding is the real reason.
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So glad people finally waking up to these things being power plays.
Republicans, Evangelical Christians, and now Techbros are run on the same script which boils down to "rules for thee, not for me."
Being a hypocrite is simply showing others you have the power to be a hypocrite and all they can do is get mad and stop their feet. It's why the right wing loves to "trigger liberals." It's not even about actual politics or religion anymore, it's just simply "might makes right."
These are expressions of power, plain and simple. They should always be viewed as such.
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But they don't have to rely on personal connections to rig the price of potatoes: they do it through a third-party data-broker called Potatotrac. Each cartel member sends all their commercially sensitive data – supply costs, pricing, sales figures – to Potatotrac, and then Potatotrac uses that data to give "advice" to the cartel members about "optimal pricing."
This is the real sick stuff, same with RealPage. They're just offering a service that could allow the businesses they serve to collude, but because they're just doing it through a third party service it's suddenly not collusion.
Doctorow pretty spot on as usual. I'm glad he's come a long way, because I actually kind of disliked his writing on Boing Boing in the early 2000's because he often got some simple facts wrong. He's much more thorough and rigorous now.
This kind of price-fixing was central to the enforcement actions of the Biden administration's trustbusters at the FTC, and their investigations and actions inspired state AGs and private parties to bring their own antitrust suits.
Saddest part of that article. We had someone trying to end this shit, and you brainwashed fuckers hated him for it.
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Will you guys shut up about this?
There are genuinely some big issues with AI that need to be addressed but they are drowned out by morons melting down over people making dumb little Ghibli style images for their own amusement.
Shout about insurance companies using AI to auto dent people's medical claims, not about some dude Turnjng a picture of his cat into anime style
