Major anti-Trump "Hands Off" protests erupt across Europe
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We align with them greatly, but not really the other way around.
We are dependent militarily and industrially for no good reason other than a sentiment of servitude, inferiority and vetos directly from the US within NATO and in the EU through the UK.
Other than that it could be easily argued that culturally we have also lost a lot of ground since WWII.
Winning back independence and leadership in any of these domains is in Europe's interest and I believe common interests could be found for example in Canada.
Of course there should be no inferiority and overreliance on them, it doesn't mean that they are inherently bad for us. Europe needs partners that align with them.
These are far right talking points. -
Of course there should be no inferiority and overreliance on them, it doesn't mean that they are inherently bad for us. Europe needs partners that align with them.
These are far right talking points.There is a whole Rest of the World out there, even if you take out Russia and China.
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There is a whole Rest of the World out there, even if you take out Russia and China.
And how helpful has this rest of the world been to europe this far, for example in relation to helping Ukraine? You know, in things that really matter?
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And how helpful has this rest of the world been to europe this far, for example in relation to helping Ukraine? You know, in things that really matter?
And I should keep trying with a bunch of idiots threatening me and overtly allied with the power attacking Ukraine, only because I never did a good job as a potential superpower to coordinate myself and others?
That is really weak as an argument.
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And I should keep trying with a bunch of idiots threatening me and overtly allied with the power attacking Ukraine, only because I never did a good job as a potential superpower to coordinate myself and others?
That is really weak as an argument.
Where did I suggest you should try anything? It seems like you are changing the topic. Let's try to keep on track, please.
I'm saying Europe is better off with USA as a reliable ally rather than an unreliable enemy.Also I don't know why you suddenly talk about yourself like you are THE Europe lol.
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Where did I suggest you should try anything? It seems like you are changing the topic. Let's try to keep on track, please.
I'm saying Europe is better off with USA as a reliable ally rather than an unreliable enemy.Also I don't know why you suddenly talk about yourself like you are THE Europe lol.
There are (commercial, trade, military, political) RELATIONSHIPS we are talking about.
There is no switch to have them accepted or not, there is a continuous effort from both parties.
And like any effort, it implies a cost. We have been in a toxic relationship with the USA for decades.There is a chance for them to get better? Good for them, we will contemplate the possibility for that to be in our interest once I will see it happening.
In the meanwhile, having them showing their true face allows us to be lucid about the current state of affairs and redirecting our efforts elsewhere.
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There are (commercial, trade, military, political) RELATIONSHIPS we are talking about.
There is no switch to have them accepted or not, there is a continuous effort from both parties.
And like any effort, it implies a cost. We have been in a toxic relationship with the USA for decades.There is a chance for them to get better? Good for them, we will contemplate the possibility for that to be in our interest once I will see it happening.
In the meanwhile, having them showing their true face allows us to be lucid about the current state of affairs and redirecting our efforts elsewhere.
There is a chance for them to get better? Good for them, we will contemplate the possibility for that to be in our interest once I will see it happening.
So you agree. What are we even talking about then?
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There is a chance for them to get better? Good for them, we will contemplate the possibility for that to be in our interest once I will see it happening.
So you agree. What are we even talking about then?
Read the last lines of my comment.
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Read the last lines of my comment.
I did. My point is that europe would be better off with USA as a reliable partner rather than whatever it currently is.
Nowhere have I said that it means we need to somehow make it work with the current USA administration or that nothing has to change whatsoever.
But in principle, it would be much better to have USA as a partner rather than as an enemy. I'm not even saying it is realistic right now, I am saying, in general, it would be better.
And from that one sentence alone what you said, i'm pretty sure you agree.
So you are just arguing against something I never said in the first place. -
I did. My point is that europe would be better off with USA as a reliable partner rather than whatever it currently is.
Nowhere have I said that it means we need to somehow make it work with the current USA administration or that nothing has to change whatsoever.
But in principle, it would be much better to have USA as a partner rather than as an enemy. I'm not even saying it is realistic right now, I am saying, in general, it would be better.
And from that one sentence alone what you said, i'm pretty sure you agree.
So you are just arguing against something I never said in the first place.And I don't think so, because what we have gotten addicted to is over reliance on a partner that has never really behaved as one.
Now that we have this situation, we are looking around and rediscovering the extent of the influence and power we can have in relations with other actors.Relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5VYUewImUc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHOSBKgM188This is at all possible because USA is in shambles.
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And I don't think so, because what we have gotten addicted to is over reliance on a partner that has never really behaved as one.
Now that we have this situation, we are looking around and rediscovering the extent of the influence and power we can have in relations with other actors.Relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5VYUewImUc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHOSBKgM188This is at all possible because USA is in shambles.
I'm not saying this shake-up is bad, I'm saying USA permanently not being an ally would be bad.
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I'm not saying this shake-up is bad, I'm saying USA permanently not being an ally would be bad.
I don't think we will be doing any of that.
Also because it takes two to tango and, again, our efforts are best spent elsewhere. -
I don't think we will be doing any of that.
Also because it takes two to tango and, again, our efforts are best spent elsewhere.our efforts are best spent elsewhere
they are not, its not an either-or.
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our efforts are best spent elsewhere
they are not, its not an either-or.
This is what we really disagree on, but I already explained my position.
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This is what we really disagree on, but I already explained my position.
I don't think so, I think I made a point and then you are arguing a different point entirely.
My point is that having USA, as a RELIABLE partner who DOES NOT have this toxic side (the true face they are showing), would be more beneficial for Europe, than an USA that is working against us.
It is quite impossible to have a healthy partnership with any country on earth and that being bad for us somehow. Granted, if its doesn't make us too dependent on them. But I'm talking about a partner that WOULD NOT be like that.There is just no way you disagree with that.
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I don't think so, I think I made a point and then you are arguing a different point entirely.
My point is that having USA, as a RELIABLE partner who DOES NOT have this toxic side (the true face they are showing), would be more beneficial for Europe, than an USA that is working against us.
It is quite impossible to have a healthy partnership with any country on earth and that being bad for us somehow. Granted, if its doesn't make us too dependent on them. But I'm talking about a partner that WOULD NOT be like that.There is just no way you disagree with that.
We never had a healthy relationship with the USA in the last 80 years.
We have no experience of what you are arguing for, especially not as a United Europe. -
We never had a healthy relationship with the USA in the last 80 years.
We have no experience of what you are arguing for, especially not as a United Europe.Yes, now are arriving at the crux of the disagreement. I disagree, I think USA has been a lot more helpful than unhelpful, not to mention WWII. But I think this would be moot to argue about because neither of us will budge on our opinion.
Anyway, given that difference in how we see USA, I think they are potentially still much easier to work with than much of the rest of the world and we can mutually benefit from each other A LOT, granted that USA gets it shit together. Yes I understand that you disagree with that, but this is my point.
I have very low faith in the current administration of USA, they need to get rid of that shit. Or even better, just abolish the whole 2 party system, democrats are not that great either, get rid of lobbying and the rampant corporatism and then we're talking.. I know this seems pretty impossible right now, but I'm just saying if they did all that, they would be an amazing partner to Europe.
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Yes, now are arriving at the crux of the disagreement. I disagree, I think USA has been a lot more helpful than unhelpful, not to mention WWII. But I think this would be moot to argue about because neither of us will budge on our opinion.
Anyway, given that difference in how we see USA, I think they are potentially still much easier to work with than much of the rest of the world and we can mutually benefit from each other A LOT, granted that USA gets it shit together. Yes I understand that you disagree with that, but this is my point.
I have very low faith in the current administration of USA, they need to get rid of that shit. Or even better, just abolish the whole 2 party system, democrats are not that great either, get rid of lobbying and the rampant corporatism and then we're talking.. I know this seems pretty impossible right now, but I'm just saying if they did all that, they would be an amazing partner to Europe.
I absolutely agree that they are easier to deal with than most, but we need to be aware that that happened by design.
They shaped us into a block that has a headache whenever it is time to talk to anyone that is not them.Is as if we were in a (imo toxic) relationship with the first person we ever kissed in high school.
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I absolutely agree that they are easier to deal with than most, but we need to be aware that that happened by design.
They shaped us into a block that has a headache whenever it is time to talk to anyone that is not them.Is as if we were in a (imo toxic) relationship with the first person we ever kissed in high school.
I don't necessarily disagree, although I don't see it so extremely.
I also don't think that in the worst case scenario where USA goes full backstab mode, we somehow get super tough and independent and magically make our own alternatives to everything they provide or find them elsewhere. It would be a massive long term economic and quality of life hit, there is no way around that.
Europe is also aging and the rest of the world is also slowly catching up and culturally and politically they are more different from us than USA. -
Any protest for a fucking American president outside ef America is massive. Get your stupid head out of your ass.
Get your stupid head out of your ass.
Please cut out that language.
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