Left Party MP expelled from German parliament for wearing Palestine t-shirt
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Hamas is not Palestine and the ADL is a genocide enabling organization that harbours deep anti-Palestinian racism. Got any better arguments to support your bigoted writings?
Lmao, Jesus Christ. I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink.
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Honestly, when I pass a place that has a German flag on a flag pole in front of the house, I don't assume it is a far right person living there. I don't know where you live but maybe in certain regions, flag poles are a bit more common than in others and hence, more German flags can be seen there.
you sure bet i assume a far right person is living there.
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The flag that stands for a democratic Germany is something only fascists associate with? Interesting take I've gotta say...
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Things have shifted in the last what 20 years: Back then no Nazi would ever be caught dead with a "black-red-mustard" flag, Nazi flags are outlawed so they were using imperial flags (black-white-red). Changed with the "Monday demonstrations", and the Nazis, while infiltrating the AfD, adopting less overt symbolism. "Nono we're not the Nazis don't you see those boneheads there marching with the imperial flag those are Nazis".
As far as use by non-fascists is concerned, it's still generally limited to the extreme right (think Burschenschaften), or the world cup. Which, btw, was started by Turks: Dunno remember which but Turkey made it into the group stage at some point, lots of Germans with Turkish descent turned the balconies red, then Turkey got kicked out, and all of them, without batting an eye, switched to flying black-red-gold.
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I’m challenging the hypocrisy.
And I'm telling you there is none.
Other members have been exeplled over simply wearing a hat or not wearing a tie in the past.
Do you not see that when the mere mention of Palestine is considered political you have crossed into extremely problematic territory? Do you not see that the symbolic erasure of the mere mention of Palestine as an entity that can be mentioned without controversy, is a kind of affirmation of the policy of erasure of an entire people?
No, because that's not what's happening.
Do you not see why this is such an infuriating betrayal of what so many of us saw as a model democracy?
No, I don't.
Do you not see why this is such an infuriating betrayal of what so many of us saw as a model democracy?
No.
Can't make you see what you refuse to see I guess.
This is incredibly sad.
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Do you not see why this is such an infuriating betrayal of what so many of us saw as a model democracy?
No.
Can't make you see what you refuse to see I guess.
This is incredibly sad.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Well, you can't see something that isn't there.
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Honestly, when I pass a place that has a German flag on a flag pole in front of the house, I don't assume it is a far right person living there. I don't know where you live but maybe in certain regions, flag poles are a bit more common than in others and hence, more German flags can be seen there.
you sure bet i assume a far right person is living there.
if you feel the need to setup a flagpole in front of your house you want to make a (political) statement.
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Well, you can't see something that isn't there.
C'est l'histoire d'un homme qui tombe d'un immeuble de 50 étages. A chaque étage il se répète : « Jusqu'ici tout va bien. » « Jusqu'ici tout va bien.» « Jusqu'ici tout va bien. »… mais l'important c'est pas la chute : c'est l'atterrissage.
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Are you seriously equating a swastika to the word "Palestine"???!
Also the whole "it's the rules" justifying anti-Democratic actions is quite an old tradition in Germany that was used heavilly during a dark, dark part of German history, so one would expect extra alarm about "rules" there for things like silencing politicians in Parliament, rather than claiming "it's the rules" - just like they did in the "good old days" - to justify anti-Democratic measures.
If you are German, your entire take on the whole subject of making an equivalence between the word "Palestine" and a swastika and an "appeal to the rules" to justify silencing politicians just like in Germany's "good old days", just emphasises my point about the alarming slide towards authoritarianism and authoritarian thinking in Germany.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Im definitely not equating it, I was giving an example. The rule is no political messages on clothing, this goes for the left and the right. Just because being left is morally better than being a fascist doesnt mean rules dont matter anymore.
What the fuck is anti-democratic about enforcing a rule thats been clear to everyone? Dont get riled up by ragebait, this is not what you seem to think it is.
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While the Bundestag does not have a detailed dress code, its rules require MPs and visitors to dress “in keeping with the prestige” of the institution.
So, there is no actual rule that she actually broke, unless we interpret the word "Palestine" to be not in keeping with the prestige of the Budestag. Are other country names or geographical regions also not in keeping with the prestige of the Bundestag? Like, when I visit can I not wear a shirt that says "Greece" on it? Or that says "Quebec" or "Antarctica"? Or is this is a special rule for country names that butthurt Germany's "staatsraison"?
No political statements with clothing is established precedent and wearing a Palestine shirt today is a political statement. Greece? Currently, not really, no, don't see it. During the Greek debt crisis? Yes it would've been.
She's free to make a pro-Palestine speech, that's how political statements are supposed to be done in parliament. Occasionally there's stunts like these, and they always have the same outcome: A small amount of extra spotlight, then everyone forgets about it.
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Oh, so now "Palestine" is the same level of offensive as a swastika?
Not to mention that a swastika is already banned in Germany, so your question is by definition pointless.
It is not the same, which I never claimed. Its just another example. Take whatever example you want. A russian flag, "Heil Kim Jong Un", "free Israel", whatever. They would all be treated like this because they break a rule thats been there forever. Its not arbitrary and definitely not anti-left. When youre robbing a bank, it doesnt matter if the bank is run by a Nazi or if you distribute the money among the poor. You will go to jail.
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"Palestine" is a political statement? I thought it was a geographical region. I mean "Free Palestine" yes. But just the word "Palestine" on its own?
"Greece", during the Greek financial crisis, would've been a political statement. Today it'd likely be fine.
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My assumption is based on two years of German authorities and institutions cracking down on pro-Palestinian voices. Somehow, each time there is some specific rule or sub-rule that is being invoked, but somehow it always ends up being a silencing of pro-Palestinian protest, activism, speech.
Why I would assume the worst of German institutions when it comes to pro-Palestinian stances? Here is the fuck why:
- https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2025/country-chapters/germany
- https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/germany-palestine-protest/
- https://www.humanrightsresearch.org/post/crackdown-on-pro-palestinian-voices-in-germany-a-disturbing-pattern
- https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4362806-germanys-unprecedented-crackdown-on-pro-palestinian-speech/
- https://globalvoices.org/2024/04/18/inside-germanys-orwellian-crackdown-on-palestine-congress/
- https://zeteo.com/p/germany-crackdown-pro-palestine-speech-sign-holocaust-gaza
- https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/11/8/why-is-germany-supporting-israels-genocide-in-gaza
- https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/germany-palestine-activists-deportation-state-repression
- https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/18/hannah-arendt-prize-masha-gessen-israel-gaza-essay
- https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/03/germany-deporting-pro-palestine-eu-citizens-chilling-new-step
- https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/25/free-speech-is-a-facade-how-gaza-war-has-deepened-divisions-in-german-arts-world
- https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/11/denouncing-critics-of-israel-as-un-jews-or-antisemites-is-a-perversion-of-history
- https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-nicaragua-germany-genocide-court-91a605921b44110ae5534e6438405997
- https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/03/11/bpig-m11.html
I have simply lost faith in German institutions on this matter.
To return to you the question: why would I NOT assume that German institutions would find some way to ratfuck with pro-Palestinian voices? On what exactly can I build a set of good faith assumptions on German benevolence on the matter? Because I see fucking nothing.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]You said a Ukraine shirt would not have been treated the same. Thats what I was asking about. Nothing you wrote supports that point
When it happens, youre welcome to get upset and you should be. But until then Im glad they are at least enforcing the rules that are in place like they are intended and dont start making up their own arbitrary rules giving no fucks about democracy like in fascist US.
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Left Party MP Cansin Köktürk was thrown out of a German parliament plenary chamber on Wednesday for wearing a t-shirt with the word "Palestine" printed on it, a move deemed a political statement by the parliamentary leadership.
Bundestag President Julia Klöckner intervened during the session, reminding MPs that political messages on clothing are not permitted in the chamber.
While the Bundestag does not have a detailed dress code, its rules require MPs and visitors to dress "in keeping with the prestige" of the institution. Enforcement of this standard is left to the discretion of the session chair.
Can't have political statements in the place where we do politics.
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Im definitely not equating it, I was giving an example. The rule is no political messages on clothing, this goes for the left and the right. Just because being left is morally better than being a fascist doesnt mean rules dont matter anymore.
What the fuck is anti-democratic about enforcing a rule thats been clear to everyone? Dont get riled up by ragebait, this is not what you seem to think it is.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]The barrier for expelling an elected representative of voters from the actual Parliament in a Democracy should be far, far higher than their choice of clothing.
It's not by chance that authoritarian regimes which try and simulate Democracy by having a Parliament will use such "arbitrarily enforced broad rules on irrelevant things" to selectively kick out elected representatives of voters, often as a means to exclude them from certain votes.
(Literally from the article: "its rules require MPs and visitors to dress 'in keeping with the prestige' of the institution" and "Enforcement of this standard is left to the discretion of the session chair", so it's exactly the kind of overbroad arbitrarily enforced rule that is perfect for the type of subversion of the political process that Authoritarian regimes so love).
So yeah, kicking out from Parliament an elected representative of voters for something which isn't even breaking the Law (unlike your curiously chosen "swastika" example), is anti-Democratic - this is not a patron breaking the dress rules in some posh restaurant, it's somebody who represents hundreds of thousands of Germans in the very Parliament were they have been tasked to represent them.
This together with other things such as forbidding the comparison of the actions of the nation state of Israel with those of Nazi Germany (outright Censorship) or the attempt by the authorities to kick out from Germany without a court order, much less a criminal conviction, non-German citizens for attending pro-Palestine demonstrations (avoidance of the Rule Of Law), adds up to a strong trend towards Authoritarianism.
Germany might not be Fascist yet, but by now it's already less Democratic than most of Europe and, more alarming, keeps on moving away from Democratic practices and values.
Considering Germany's past, one would expect a tendency to try and be as Democratic as possible, not using rules which are totally irrelevant for the political process (the wearing of a t-shirt with the word "Palestine" does not in any way form or shape impede the operation of the Parliament) to subvert the operation within the political process of those holding certain opinions, but not others
That then people come out claiming "it's the rules" as a valid reason to remove an elected representative of voters from Parliament in a country were back in Nazi times "it's the rules" was the most used excuse by Nazis and their supporters for the various actions against minorities, including some of the worst, is just mind boggling.
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The barrier for expelling an elected representative of voters from the actual Parliament in a Democracy should be far, far higher than their choice of clothing.
It's not by chance that authoritarian regimes which try and simulate Democracy by having a Parliament will use such "arbitrarily enforced broad rules on irrelevant things" to selectively kick out elected representatives of voters, often as a means to exclude them from certain votes.
(Literally from the article: "its rules require MPs and visitors to dress 'in keeping with the prestige' of the institution" and "Enforcement of this standard is left to the discretion of the session chair", so it's exactly the kind of overbroad arbitrarily enforced rule that is perfect for the type of subversion of the political process that Authoritarian regimes so love).
So yeah, kicking out from Parliament an elected representative of voters for something which isn't even breaking the Law (unlike your curiously chosen "swastika" example), is anti-Democratic - this is not a patron breaking the dress rules in some posh restaurant, it's somebody who represents hundreds of thousands of Germans in the very Parliament were they have been tasked to represent them.
This together with other things such as forbidding the comparison of the actions of the nation state of Israel with those of Nazi Germany (outright Censorship) or the attempt by the authorities to kick out from Germany without a court order, much less a criminal conviction, non-German citizens for attending pro-Palestine demonstrations (avoidance of the Rule Of Law), adds up to a strong trend towards Authoritarianism.
Germany might not be Fascist yet, but by now it's already less Democratic than most of Europe and, more alarming, keeps on moving away from Democratic practices and values.
Considering Germany's past, one would expect a tendency to try and be as Democratic as possible, not using rules which are totally irrelevant for the political process (the wearing of a t-shirt with the word "Palestine" does not in any way form or shape impede the operation of the Parliament) to subvert the operation within the political process of those holding certain opinions, but not others
That then people come out claiming "it's the rules" as a valid reason to remove an elected representative of voters from Parliament in a country were back in Nazi times "it's the rules" was the most used excuse by Nazis and their supporters for the various actions against minorities, including some of the worst, is just mind boggling.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]She knew she was going to be expelled beforehand and actively decided to wear the shirt anyway. It was her decision, not someone else making up some new arbitrary rule to expell her. You would definitely not defend a far-right politician with an "abortion is murder" shirt in the same situation. Youre simply biased. Not enforcing it after it becomes evident would be undemocratic period.
Im really glad the rule was enforced, otherwise tomorrow the whole AfD fraction would show up with far-right rhetoric shirts and either prove that rules in the parliament dont matter or get criticized and use it to position themselves as the victims like always. Whats the use in that?
Germany might not be Fascist yet, but by now it's already less Democratic than most of Europe
You have literally no idea what youre talking about. Why am I even wasting my time.
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She knew she was going to be expelled beforehand and actively decided to wear the shirt anyway. It was her decision, not someone else making up some new arbitrary rule to expell her. You would definitely not defend a far-right politician with an "abortion is murder" shirt in the same situation. Youre simply biased. Not enforcing it after it becomes evident would be undemocratic period.
Im really glad the rule was enforced, otherwise tomorrow the whole AfD fraction would show up with far-right rhetoric shirts and either prove that rules in the parliament dont matter or get criticized and use it to position themselves as the victims like always. Whats the use in that?
Germany might not be Fascist yet, but by now it's already less Democratic than most of Europe
You have literally no idea what youre talking about. Why am I even wasting my time.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]It doesn't matter that she knew: she brought to everybody's attention that in Germany there's an arbitrarily enforced rule to kick out from Parliament the representatives of voters and she showed how it gets used against those representatives that have certain opinions, but not others.
Of course you're happy: you've been repeating "it's the rules", plus think it's good because it can be used against people whose politics you don't like, and it's just as NAZI-supporters did back in the "good old days" and you probably don't even realize that you're using the same style of argument as they did.
I come from a country were our exit from Fascism was "only" 50 years ago, and really hope that in 25 years' time we don't end up like Germany, were Democracy is so degraded that people who think themselves "democrats" parrot the very same style of "arguments" as the Fascist did whilst thinking that it's fine when they do it, just not when others do it.
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If Die Linke had any sense of political theatrics, if they had just a bit of Melenchon in their blood, they would all show up with TShirts of random countries, see what the fuck happens.
see what the fuck happens
Spoiler: They would get kicked out all the same.
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It doesn't matter that she knew: she brought to everybody's attention that in Germany there's an arbitrarily enforced rule to kick out from Parliament the representatives of voters and she showed how it gets used against those representatives that have certain opinions, but not others.
Of course you're happy: you've been repeating "it's the rules", plus think it's good because it can be used against people whose politics you don't like, and it's just as NAZI-supporters did back in the "good old days" and you probably don't even realize that you're using the same style of argument as they did.
I come from a country were our exit from Fascism was "only" 50 years ago, and really hope that in 25 years' time we don't end up like Germany, were Democracy is so degraded that people who think themselves "democrats" parrot the very same style of "arguments" as the Fascist did whilst thinking that it's fine when they do it, just not when others do it.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]and she showed how it gets used against those representatives that have certain opinions, but not others.
Thats exactly not what she showed, because it is enforced against everyone equally. The others just decided to follow the rule. I dont even believe she would have wanted to stay, she was obviously provoking it. She probably wanted to get some attention on the topic, get people to talk about it even if it meant being thrown out. It was her decision and she knew the consequences and she obviously decided it was worth it. Maybe its a good thing overall. But pretending that enforcing the rule itself was wrong is just hypocrisy.
Look, I know its hard to accept that not everything is a conspiracy to keep the left small. Playing the victim is the far-rights tactic and we dont need to drop to their level, its pathetic.
Everything youve been saying is completely biased and I think you know that by now but are still grasping at hypocritical straws. Enforcing rules that were set in place for keeping order in the parliament is not "anti-democratic", how the fuck do you even come up with this bs.
By the way, did you know Nazis drink water and breathe air? You should stop doing that, youre just repeating their behavior.
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No political statements with clothing is established precedent and wearing a Palestine shirt today is a political statement. Greece? Currently, not really, no, don't see it. During the Greek debt crisis? Yes it would've been.
She's free to make a pro-Palestine speech, that's how political statements are supposed to be done in parliament. Occasionally there's stunts like these, and they always have the same outcome: A small amount of extra spotlight, then everyone forgets about it.
Ok... What if her shirt said "Israel?"
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Ok... What if her shirt said "Israel?"
Also political.
