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  3. The problem with that kind of thing is always "who decides what's hate-filled and false?" If there was a Federal government mechanism for that in the United States it would now be in the hands of Trump and the Republicans.

The problem with that kind of thing is always "who decides what's hate-filled and false?" If there was a Federal government mechanism for that in the United States it would now be in the hands of Trump and the Republicans.

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  • facedeer@fedia.ioF This user is from outside of this forum
    facedeer@fedia.ioF This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    The problem with that kind of thing is always "who decides what's hate-filled and false?" If there was a Federal government mechanism for that in the United States it would now be in the hands of Trump and the Republicans.

    O 1 Reply Last reply
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    • facedeer@fedia.ioF [email protected]

      The problem with that kind of thing is always "who decides what's hate-filled and false?" If there was a Federal government mechanism for that in the United States it would now be in the hands of Trump and the Republicans.

      O This user is from outside of this forum
      O This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      You're both right which is the real conundrum. It's becoming increasingly obvious that conspiracy theories and propaganda in our hyperconnected social media fueled internet are incredibly dangerous and rot the foundations of democracy. Democracy can not survive if these kinds of things are left unchecked. By the same token however any mechanism that immediately springs to mind to combat them is ripe for abuse and easily subverted by fascists and totalitarians. I honestly don't know what the solution is, only that we desperately need one.

      wagesj45@fedia.ioW 1 Reply Last reply
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      • O [email protected]

        You're both right which is the real conundrum. It's becoming increasingly obvious that conspiracy theories and propaganda in our hyperconnected social media fueled internet are incredibly dangerous and rot the foundations of democracy. Democracy can not survive if these kinds of things are left unchecked. By the same token however any mechanism that immediately springs to mind to combat them is ripe for abuse and easily subverted by fascists and totalitarians. I honestly don't know what the solution is, only that we desperately need one.

        wagesj45@fedia.ioW This user is from outside of this forum
        wagesj45@fedia.ioW This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        America is a polarized country, and the two general world views would probably strongly disagree on what constitutes "hate speech". And you cannot just handwave the issue because there is no clear dominant group. Elections are won and lost on relatively razor thin margins, splitting political power between two very disparate groups. Unless you're willing to literally fight a war over it, you might find yourself on the wrong side of the definition and thus subject to state application of force.

        O 1 Reply Last reply
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        • wagesj45@fedia.ioW [email protected]

          America is a polarized country, and the two general world views would probably strongly disagree on what constitutes "hate speech". And you cannot just handwave the issue because there is no clear dominant group. Elections are won and lost on relatively razor thin margins, splitting political power between two very disparate groups. Unless you're willing to literally fight a war over it, you might find yourself on the wrong side of the definition and thus subject to state application of force.

          O This user is from outside of this forum
          O This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          TL;DR: of that whole thing boils down to "the problem is too hard to solve and all the solutions are worse than the problem so don't even try". I don't agree with the premise because if we accept it, then democracy is doomed.

          We can not have a functioning society when we can't even get a majority of the citizens to agree on basic aspects of reality and half the people are convinced the other half are lizard people that are putting mind control drugs in the water supply. A functioning democracy requires an informed and educated populace, and unchecked propaganda, disinformation, and conspiracy theories lead to the opposite of that, particularly when you have a wealthy group that profits from spreading it.

          koboldcoterie@pawb.socialK 1 Reply Last reply
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          • O [email protected]

            TL;DR: of that whole thing boils down to "the problem is too hard to solve and all the solutions are worse than the problem so don't even try". I don't agree with the premise because if we accept it, then democracy is doomed.

            We can not have a functioning society when we can't even get a majority of the citizens to agree on basic aspects of reality and half the people are convinced the other half are lizard people that are putting mind control drugs in the water supply. A functioning democracy requires an informed and educated populace, and unchecked propaganda, disinformation, and conspiracy theories lead to the opposite of that, particularly when you have a wealthy group that profits from spreading it.

            koboldcoterie@pawb.socialK This user is from outside of this forum
            koboldcoterie@pawb.socialK This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Technology advances quickly and lawmaking advances slowly. 50 years ago, this wouldn't have been nearly as much of a problem, because the flow of information would be a lot slower, and fewer people would be exposed to these things. Today, Trump posts something hate-filled on the internet and his followers everywhere in the country see it immediately. Same goes for any other person with social media influence. If Elon Musk posts something provably false, tens of millions of people consume it. A hundred people can post the proof that it's false within minutes, and a fraction of those people will see it and even fewer will care.

            The problem isn't the speech, the problem is the platform they're given.

            O 1 Reply Last reply
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            • koboldcoterie@pawb.socialK [email protected]

              Technology advances quickly and lawmaking advances slowly. 50 years ago, this wouldn't have been nearly as much of a problem, because the flow of information would be a lot slower, and fewer people would be exposed to these things. Today, Trump posts something hate-filled on the internet and his followers everywhere in the country see it immediately. Same goes for any other person with social media influence. If Elon Musk posts something provably false, tens of millions of people consume it. A hundred people can post the proof that it's false within minutes, and a fraction of those people will see it and even fewer will care.

              The problem isn't the speech, the problem is the platform they're given.

              O This user is from outside of this forum
              O This user is from outside of this forum
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              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              The platform is a tool, and like most tools it can be used for both good and evil. I agree it's making the problem significantly worse, but hyper focusing on just the platforms while ignoring the people using them doesn't seem like the right approach either. I don't know how to preserve the positive aspects of platforms like Facebook, TikTok, and Youtube while also preventing them from being abused to spread hate and lies. I feel like there must be something that can be done to at least improve the situation a little. The various "community notes" features I don't think were a terrible first step, although they're also far from a solution. It's a complicated problem with a lot of potential pitfalls, but one I think is going to be critical to solve and soon because the problem isn't going away, as long as we have an internet it's here to stay.

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              • T This user is from outside of this forum
                T This user is from outside of this forum
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                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Yes, but would things have gotten this far with a more reasonable information policy? I’d argue Trump would not have gotten elected (again).

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