TIL No Kings Protests were the 3rd Largest in US History
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I'm not sure if you forgot a /s or if you're being serious. If serious this is some ridiculous logic.
wrote last edited by [email protected]What I said would be true of Russia. This is because Russia is an oligarchy and this is how oligarchies operate.
The United States is an oligarchy as well.
Therefore what I said applies to the United States.
The goal of law enforcement is to preserve the existing social structure. American social structure is that of oligarchy. Therefore law enforcement exists to preserve oligarchy.
American law enforcement is immensely well funded. These protests did not all encounter law enforcement opposition. Therefore, law enforcement must have determined that these protests did not represent a threat to oligarchy. Therefore the protests were toothless because they did not represent a threat to the existing social structure
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We are the majority.
🧑‍
🧑‍ Always have been. That's why conservatives constantly try to make it harder to vote - the more people vote, the more left wing politicians win. Because the majority of people agree with left wing ideals.If blue fucking showed up at the boxes more often. (Even just 25% of the people registered as blue) nearly all government seats would flip and change would actually happen for the better. Instead left is actually center and right is facist.
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This has changed. Look at the propensity switch. Low propensity voters back trump by higher margins than high propensity voters since 2020.
Hence why Democrats dominate low turnout special elections these days
A couple counterexamples doesn't mean the trend across all elections has changed. And that's what I'm talking about - the trend across all elections.
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And you're doing... what, exactly?
wrote last edited by [email protected]I'm still trying to get a response to my original point that
"There are two sides. The Right and everyone else. The Right wins because they stay on topic and vote. Until the rest of us fall in line like they do, they’ll keep on winning."
does not logically follow from
"Donald Trump won the election in 2016 over Hilary Clinton"
and hence the latter does not prove the former.
The whole ploy of the other post in, when I pointed that out, demanding that I do the impossible and provide a "specific" and "detailed" plan to "get Trump out" (as if I'm some kind of omniscient divinity that can produce a specific and detailed plan for something as complex as that out of the top of my mind), followed by using my inability to do the impossible as evidence that I must be wrong about my earlier point, is just a common argumentation ploy to distract away from the point I made rather than address it, and specifically a ploy that the MAGAs constantly use.
Of course I don't have a "specific" and "detailed" plan to "get Trump out", and neither has the poster who demanded that I provided one in the full expectation that I couldn't - if it was that easy that even an internet rando could come up with a "specific and detailed plan" for it, it would've already happened.
If you read the thread back you will notice that I made a good faith attempt at providing at least some ideas, whilst the other poster has not put forward a single positive solutions oriented idea, only criticism, starting by criticizing everybody and later moving to criticizing my inability to do the impossible.
"Always criticism never solutions" is exactly the political strategy of populists. People who want to try and solve things, even if they think it's going to be hard as shit, don't spend their time in "criticize everybody" mode.
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Ok. I'm too chicken shit to actually show up in person to one of these protests.
What's the next best thing I can do to meaningfully help?
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What I said would be true of Russia. This is because Russia is an oligarchy and this is how oligarchies operate.
The United States is an oligarchy as well.
Therefore what I said applies to the United States.
The goal of law enforcement is to preserve the existing social structure. American social structure is that of oligarchy. Therefore law enforcement exists to preserve oligarchy.
American law enforcement is immensely well funded. These protests did not all encounter law enforcement opposition. Therefore, law enforcement must have determined that these protests did not represent a threat to oligarchy. Therefore the protests were toothless because they did not represent a threat to the existing social structure
Ah, now I understand your "logic". I didn't pay attention to the instance you are from at first.
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And yet here you are actively fighting against activism to enact change in the government.
Are you wearing a maga hat right now or something? What is the motivation here?Really? No one? Can’t even tell me what specific change they’re trying to enact?
Expecting a pat on the back, and can’t even articulate a specific policy goal. Absolutely wild and hilarious.
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You guys think that merely walking around in your own time holding up a board and shouting a bit, all focused on the mango puppet instead of the puppet masters, is going to change anything given that there is no single Historical event in the US ever of the lower classes rebelling against and deposit the upper classes (even the Revolution was literally the American plebs led by the American upper class fighting against the English plebs controlled by the English upper class)?!
The murder of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare had more impact, if only temporary because it wasn't followed by more similar murders.
Even millions of people marching and shouting a bit (and so polite that they do it in their own time) will cause no fear for the elites because that's in no way a warning that the heads of the elites will soon start getting separated from their shoulders if nothing changes.
You need at the very least a General Strike and/or targetting the economic and propaganda interests of the elites (trashing the TV studios of certain channels or certain newspapers would send a powerful message).
I mean, just notice the impact on police violence of the greatest demonstrations in the US - the George Floyd protests: nothing or even worse than nothing as the pigs have never been this violent.
Getting average people to the point that they are ready to do something like a general strike is a process.
Most people don't even want to have to go to a protest.
But going to a protests is like anteing up in poker -- it is mentally anchoring people as in the game and publicly taking a side.
And yeah - the fucks in power are going to say "bet".
So now millions of people who are not where we already are, who have not wrestles with this and avoided it as long as they can - they are starting to ask, "ok, what do we actually have to risk to change this? What am I willing to do?"
Will we get enough people actually engaged enough for a general strike? I have no idea.
But I know it won't happen without giving people a ramp-up that includes things like the protest this weekend.
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Protests aren't about the Political and Money "elites" as you put it because they don't care no matter what.
You think they'd give a shit if what is happening in LA is happening everywhere? They're like cockroaches that will skitter into hiding until it's safe to come out and monopolize on the ruin.
Protests are about galvanizing support and building unity among the populace. The US has been so divided for so long and that division has been manipulated and grown to benefits those "elites".
I do think a general strike may be effective but it's unrealistic. A nationwide general strike would require massive financial and material support. Where will that come from?
They work on a smaller, union scale because they're supported by the union and outside supporters that are not on strike. They work in other countries that have the social programs in place to support the people which is something the US does not have.
I keep seeing this repeated comparison to France but let's look at that. France is a country a little smaller than the state of Texas with an adult population only slightly more than the total population of California.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's a little easier to coordinate a general strike in a country with 1/6 the population of the US spread across an area 1/15 the size of the US.
Protests in the US are getting bigger and more widespread but it's like a slow wave, it takes time to build.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Look, it can totally seen how the protests give hope to others by showing them that "they're far from alone in their concerns" and doing so in a way which is independent of mainstream political parties (which is good, since in my experience when political parties capture protests, they use such movements for their own personal good, in the process weakening the original movement).
In fact I totally approve of the protests and (even though I'm not American) I'm happy with just how big they were because maybe American has enough good people to make it a better country in the World stage (plus, frankly, I have some American acquaintances from minorities and don't want to see them suffer).
What I fear is that people here in Lemmy are crazily over-celebrating the protest as some kind of ending in itself when it's at best a beginning, and not even the beginning of the end but the beginning of the beginning.
If these protests aren't leveraged to organize grassroots movements to start doing things like guerrilla (in the marketing sense, rather than violent sense) campaigns to oust the crooked politicians no matter what their party is and weaken the influence of Money in politics, they're worthless, same as the George Floyd protests ended up being worthless because they didn't led to any organized follow through to force politicians to restructure policing in America.
So my point is that people need to keep their eye on the long term solution for America's problems, and that doesn't stop with kicking Trump out, it requires a far deeper cleanup of the American political system and addressing the problems of common Americans so that another guy like Trump (or, more likely, worse) doesn't get eventually get in power after Trump is out.
Trump is not the disease, he's a symptom, so merely Trump out isn't going to cure it.
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Ok. I'm too chicken shit to actually show up in person to one of these protests.
What's the next best thing I can do to meaningfully help?
Grow a pair.
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You first.
HEY EVERYBODY!..."you first" is absolutely NOT the flex you think it is.
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5 million people are doing something, your comment is shitting on their effort.
wrote last edited by [email protected]It's incredible that millions of people showed up and pretty much none of them feel for Donald Trump's trap that would have, to the MAGA Republicans, justified martial law and the suspension of liberties.
I'm pretty solidly convinced the protest was a good thing and that we won this battle.
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I would never. So please clarify for me- what was accomplished by this billionaire sponsored event? What change was enacted or demanded?
Do you have any receipts for that "billionaire sponsored" claim?
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Come over and lead the revolution then, if you think you've got what it takes. Otherwise, you're also doing nothing of note.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I'm not American. If I went there to lead the revolution I would end up in El Salvador.
I did, however, got involved in politics in two countries I live in and did a lot of campaigning for them, so I've actually done the deed as far as I could rather than merely talk about it, and did so further than just demonstrations.
Demonstrations are nice as a way for people to know that they're far from alone in their concerns, but they're worthless if not leveraged into helping make or grow grassroots organization to change the actual underlying problems that results in somebody like Trump getting elected again and again (and I'm pretty sure that if that doesn't change, when Trump is out somebody else like him or worse will eventually get elected).
The Georgy Floyd demonstrations are a great example of what happens if demonstrations aren't leveraged to grow civic-society movements for change: you get some vague promises from politicians and then nothing actually changes.
I just feel that people here are treating these demonstrations as some kind on getting near the finish line when they're at best (and hopefully) a beginning, and not even a beginning of the end but and beginning of the beginning, and they should be treated as opportunities to get the ball rolling on things that can actually snowball into real change.
If all you do after a demonstration is pat yourself on the back for having "done something" whilst you don't even have some contacts for groups of people you're thinking of joining for further actions, you've just done exactly what the actual powers that control the country wanted you to do: defused your anger whilst not starting the ball rolling on real change.
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That’s what I wanted to confirm. If that’s the bar we’re setting for accomplishments, my group’s blowing them out of the water.
Funny attempt though. I’m not sure how you expected the argument to go your way, when your own standards for accomplishment set a bar so low that almost every single person minimally involved in any activism is doing loads more than this bare minimum measure.
Considering the “no kings” folks were sponsored by the Walton family and purposely enforced a stance of silence on the Gaza genocide, this doesn’t even meet the threshold for bare minimum on human decency.
Your conspiracism is silly but otherwise you're correct
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That is exactly why the midterms will be so important, not to mention the next presidential election. We need to keep the momentum going for a blue wave, and this protest may have helped with that.
When that fails, when Democrats lose voting rights, when Trump pardons the Minnesota assassin to effectively legalize political violence against MAGA's enemies, when all peaceful options for democracy have been exhausted, then let's talk about the violent revolution. Until then, there's no reason to be a buzzkill about this protest.
The fact that No Kings was nonviolent was perfect, for now, because trying to riot or a coup would have just enabled MAGA to justify state-sanctioned violence of their own.
Well, good thing that the Minnesota assassin is currently being held on state-level murder charges because Trump can't pardon non-federal charges.
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Your conspiracism is silly but otherwise you're correct
What conspiracy?
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there's also immense value is reminding people that they're not as singular in their viewpoint as they feel.
This destroys the narrative of the protested party. They cannot convincingly talk about 'a few misguided people disagreeing' when you see so many others who feel like you. Even if nothing would be achieved by the protest, this is an immensely powerful confirmation of an individuals beliefs. 100% agree.
Would be MUCH more effective if all the protesters were armed.
The lesson from A Handmaid's Tale is don't protest without the arms to back it up.
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5 million people are doing something, your comment is shitting on their effort.
They are saying the effort was toothless, no need to take it so personal.
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Do you have any receipts for that "billionaire sponsored" claim?
wrote last edited by [email protected]Hardly a “claim.” They didn’t hide it. Their backers were listed right on many of their ads.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/walmart-ad-no-kings-boycott/
